Which ally will act first?

[Mogar]

[quote name='Mr Vicarious' timestamp='1344635873' post='3020590']
It's probably not fair to include Lord Fingolfin in with the rest of Deinos.
[/quote]
touche, he still is voting with his feet though, if he didnt agree with where they are on the web he would leave and go elsewhere.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Grendel' timestamp='1344629822' post='3020571']
You choose to be the lapdogs of DH and suck at their teat and in turn you get to be cannon fodder, it's your lot in life. Quit complaining

by the way painting an awfully wide brush stroke with "...since we haven't sat out every other war since Karma."
[/quote]
Haha, what? That doesn't even make sense in any context. Step your game up or just stop.

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1344634102' post='3020586']
I fixed that for you, you probably shouldn't whine about taking damage from the multiple offensive wars your clique has started.
[/quote]
This is laughably and demonstrably false. VE and MK are by no means best friends. Just please stop.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1344579854' post='3020442']
Every other enemy MK had to this point has always been "yea we don't like you, but we won't do anything about it!". I mean there was TOP, but then they eventually became like everyone else. With screenshots and logs on both sides pretty public at this point; I'm just waiting to see who has the balls to do something about it first.
[/quote]

Posts like this are why we collectively facepalmed at Argent letting you in.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344634753' post='3020587']
Bi-Polar - Started by...Polar
PB-NpO - Started by...VE. You could argue that DH started the DH-NPO front but really those alliances were going to all be engaged at some point through treaty chains already, DH simply expedited the process and the pre-empt was precipitated by the ongoing war started by PB/VE.
TOP/IRON-NpO - Started by...TOP/IRON
Dave War - Started by...MK

Four major wars since Karma, I count 1 directly started by a DH member. The funny thing is, I'm not even part of the "ruling clique" of "sUpEr CoOl KiDs", and have friends on both sides of the aisle so to speak. I like AI as much as I like MK, I've known and worked with many AI members since the very beginning of my existence here. But the arguments and flawed points you "prophets" throw around are so glaringly stretched or just factually incorrect that I somehow can't seem to go more than a day without having to lecture one of you
[/quote]
Funny, I remember Archon coming along and asking what it would take to get us to peace out Polaris before Top attacked. By my count that would be 2 directly started by a DH member.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1344626844' post='3020562']
Get. Your. !@#$@#$. Head. Checked. At this point in time, DH has far better things to do that hunt down BAPS/Valhalla/Olympus elements. Like, you know, rebuild, since we haven't sat out every other war since Karma.
[/quote]
Watching our enemies take damage on a quarterly basis while continuing to grow and save seems like a right proper action plan.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1344639871' post='3020601']
Funny, I remember Archon coming along and asking what it would take to get us to peace out Polaris before Top attacked. By my count that would be 2 directly started by a DH member.
[/quote]
Yes MK begged Polaris to start a war that could have potentially ended horribly for MK it's true.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1344614906' post='3020511']
Just to show I care....[/quote]

Aww thanks

[quote]
Without really knowing , or caring, what you are talking about,
[/quote]

Well nvm. Why did you respond if you don't even have a clue what I'm talking about?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1344639871' post='3020601']
Funny, I remember Archon coming along and asking what it would take to get us to peace out Polaris before Top attacked. By my count that would be 2 directly started by a DH member.
[/quote]

I recall us and Duckroll hitting CnG, not the other way around. Had Polar agreed to peace behind the scenes only to see us independently choose not to go ahead with the attack, that particular war would not have occurred.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1344639633' post='3020597']
Posts like this are why we collectively facepalmed at Argent letting you in.
[/quote]

Posts like this is why people facepalm at you. The post didn't even take any shots at anyone. It was just enjoying drama. Get the $%&@ off MK's &#$@ and learn to read.

[Jrenster]

Guys it's okay. Rey is just training to become what Haf/D34th/Mogar are to DH to us. Except maybe edgier.

[Laslo Kenez]

This thread is a cesspit of people with an inflated sense of self-worth, and you should all be embarassed.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344578663' post='3020434']
Everything that I have seen and heard about this particular scenario suggests it is along the lines of what I referenced. WC isn't exactly enamored of NPO because he isn't Brehon's biggest fan, Alterego isn't peachy keen on MK due to BAPS back in the day, and there are several other examples in each alliance and that is being misconstrued as alliance policy by those who want to fan the fire since it is in their interest that such a conflict occur. Meh, who knows
[/quote]

I think you will find that was done and dusted a long time ago and there is about a year when I said nothing negative about MK and even made some supportive comments. Its a shame they and their friends started attacking alliances for no reason and developing a particular taste for signing a peace treaty at the end of a war only to go back months later to give their peace partner a second kicking just because they could. Their word is nothing and denials are laughable. Next they will be denying they wanted to pull DR into a destructive war while they put their feet up just to have DR take a lot of damage.

[Mogar]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1344637924' post='3020595']
This is laughably and demonstrably false. VE and MK are by no means best friends. Just please stop.
[/quote]
it's not like they share 90% of the same allies or anything, I'll be entertained when PB 2.0 is announced disproving this though.

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1344642929' post='3020621']
Guys it's okay. Rey is just training to become what Haf/D34th/Mogar are to DH to us. Except maybe edgier.
[/quote]
I'll have to step up the edgyness.

[Feanor Noldorin]

I voted TOP.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1344643624' post='3020635']
This thread is a cesspit of people with an inflated sense of self-worth, and you should all be embarassed.
[/quote]
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was intentionally ironic and simply say: well played.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1344667855' post='3020796']
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was intentionally ironic and simply say: well played.
[/quote]

For someone with a rock-star reputation, I'm as humble as they come.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1344612798' post='3020503']
I seem recall a discussion former Valhalla government members had with SCY in the AI DoE thread about how they stayed out of some conflict to "be able to crush DH later" or some such. This was not denied by any of the former Valhalla gov that I saw. So to say there are no anti-DH elements other than Alterego is disingenuous at best.Regardless, I will say that if you really, really wanted to roll us I suppose you would have done it in the middle of the last conflict. So I guess either the political cost would have been too great for you, or you don't really care that much.
[/quote]
Id like to see what you are talking about as I do not recall anything of that nature being said. Considering i was the one arguing the most with SCY. No one said that AE was the only one just that hes the most vocal and if WC can come out and spout his mouth why cant AE.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1344626844' post='3020562']
Get. Your. !@#$@#$. Head. Checked. At this point in time, DH has far better things to do that hunt down BAPS/Valhalla/Olympus elements. Like, you know, rebuild, since we haven't sat out every other war since Karma.
[/quote]
LOL and this is the best you can come up with. Oly and baps both have fought in wars since Karma.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1344639871' post='3020601']
Funny, I remember Archon coming along and asking what it would take to get us to peace out Polaris before Top attacked. By my count that would be 2 directly started by a DH member.
[/quote]
[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1344640058' post='3020602']
Watching our enemies take damage on a quarterly basis while continuing to grow and save seems like a right proper action plan.
[/quote]
There is no pig like Porky Pig.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1344640271' post='3020606']
I recall us and Duckroll hitting CnG, not the other way around. Had Polar agreed to peace behind the scenes only to see us independently choose not to go ahead with the attack, that particular war would not have occurred.
[/quote]
Come on Crymson lets not rewright history here. Archon played us plain and simple as soon as the roll out occured peace was achieved. CnG at the time made sure we got decimated as a whole. Well played on their part and a check mark on Grubs bucket list watching many of us burn. MK wanted that war and they got it just not the way it was planned.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1344635236' post='3020588']
the difference between us is I consider TOP to be a member of the ruling clique and they have been since Bipolar, if you can't beat em, join em, so to speak, VE same story, this war they proved where their loyalties really are and I wouldn't be surprised to see the GOD/VE treaty canceled within the next month, I've never been one to whine about damage I took in an offensive war, if DH took [i]soooo much damage[/i], maybe they shouldn't have declared a war of choice.

edit: Alliance Affiliation: Deinos

keep telling yourself you're not part of the ruling clique.
[/quote]

Yes, Deinos is clearly on top of the world. I think the important differentiation one should make is between DH and alliances who are perceived as being politically relevant/secure. Yes, TOP and VE are both politically powerful and capable alliances in secure standing, and at points have both been one of the primary actors in powerful blocs (PB, and PF). They aren't DH cronies, they march to the beat of their own drum and it is foolish to criticize MK/DH for their actions. That is simply the point I was
trying to make.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1344639871' post='3020601']
Funny, I remember Archon coming along and asking what it would take to get us to peace out Polaris before Top attacked. By my count that would be 2 directly started by a DH member.
[/quote]

I think Crymson addressed this as well if not better than I would have

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1344640271' post='3020606']
I recall us and Duckroll hitting CnG, not the other way around. Had Polar agreed to peace behind the scenes only to see us independently choose not to go ahead with the attack, that particular war would not have occurred.
[/quote]


[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1344659685' post='3020762']
Next they will be denying they wanted to pull DR into a destructive war while they put their feet up just to have DR take a lot of damage.
[/quote]

A part of me is actually hoping this is true. As much as I would dislike to see two groups I like tear each other to pieces, a DR/NPO v. DH match up would be probably the most interesting thing to happen around here in years. The political maneuvering and the actions of swing alliances such as TOP and TLR would be delightfully entertaining.

[Centurius]

This is a poll that makes perfect sense by one of the most respectable posters on this forum.

Also voted TOP.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344710312' post='3020878']

I think Crymson addressed this as well if not better than I would have

[/quote]

He didn't address it very well.
It sounds like they got played bad, obviously not the full amount as I doubt MK had the ability to get NpO to attack that alliance to inspire TOP and duckroll to attack CnG.

I wonder how many people you would need to do that though.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Commander shepard

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Commander shepard' timestamp='1344716971' post='3020898']
He didn't address it very well.
It sounds like they got played bad, obviously not the full amount as I doubt MK had the ability to get NpO to attack that alliance to inspire TOP and duckroll to attack CnG.
[/quote]

The point was that MK didn't initiate the conflict. Polar initiated the war with \m/ and TOP and the rest of TIFDTT initiated the conflict with C&G. Yes, MK knew that TIFDTT was going to attack them thanks to STA and NpO, Pezstar in particular comes to mind. And with that knowledge MK maneuvered to have the NpO-\m/ front brought to a close in order to entrap TOP in a losing conflict, they did it quite cleverly. However, if NpO-\m/ had been brought to an end before TIFDTT had declared then the war with C&G wouldn't have occured, MK wouldn't have responded to TOP with a "welp, they didn't attack us, lets go declare on them". Hence, it is silly to assert that MK initiated that war. Bad memories, I recall being in the same channels with Crymson and others watching as Polar gov left IRC and we all realized we'd just been had.

[Ogaden]

Pezstar leaks confidential information? I am shocked

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344718108' post='3020904']
The point was that MK didn't initiate the conflict. Polar initiated the war with \m/ and TOP and the rest of TIFDTT initiated the conflict with C&G. Yes, MK knew that TIFDTT was going to attack them thanks to STA and NpO, Pezstar in particular comes to mind. And with that knowledge MK maneuvered to have the NpO-\m/ front brought to a close in order to entrap TOP in a losing conflict, they did it quite cleverly. However, if NpO-\m/ had been brought to an end before TIFDTT had declared then the war with C&G wouldn't have occured, MK wouldn't have responded to TOP with a "welp, they didn't attack us, lets go declare on them". Hence, it is silly to assert that MK initiated that war. Bad memories, I recall being in the same channels with Crymson and others watching as Polar gov left IRC and we all realized we'd just been had.
[/quote]
If my memory serves right, it was also Crymson who pointed out later on that CnG would enter against our side if we had gone by the treaty chain, where IRON's treaty would activate to hit FARK and things would unravel from there. War between the two sides was gonna happen as the heat was building up for quite sometime, TOP was in the crosshairs since Karma, esp by SF sphere. Who started it or not is I feel a useless argument, I feel that war was gonna happen one way or the another. Both sides duked it out and took it out of there systems, but in the manner the war occurred, NpO turned out to be the biggest losers in long-term.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1344784827' post='3021261']
If my memory serves right, it was also Crymson who pointed out later on that CnG would enter against our side if we had gone by the treaty chain, where IRON's treaty would activate to hit FARK and things would unravel from there. War between the two sides was gonna happen as the heat was building up for quite sometime, TOP was in the crosshairs since Karma, esp by SF sphere. Who started it or not is I feel a useless argument, I feel that war was gonna happen one way or the another. Both sides duked it out and took it out of there systems, but in the manner the war occurred, NpO turned out to be the biggest losers in long-term.
[/quote]

Oh definitely, I agree completely. I'm just contesting assertions that MK is responsible for initiating Bi-Polar, which I think it inaccurate. In any case, it was a long time ago

[General Lulz]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344787137' post='3021278']
Oh definitely, I agree completely. I'm just contesting assertions that MK is responsible for initiating Bi-Polar, which I think it inaccurate. In any case, it was a long time ago
[/quote]

MK absolutely, positively was complicit in getting TOP rolled in bi-polar. As stated, there are logs of it. Crymson just has his head so far up MK's ass he is still in denial. He likes to focus all blame on NpO. I'm sure MK is still laughing at him behind his back. The poor guy just hasn't a clue does he?