FARK/FAN vs NPO up to date

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1326938118' post='2902583']
From what I can tell Fark and FAN are having a good time enjoying the war, so they're not in a big rush to surrender and aren't overly concerned about their pixels either. So if they're having fun and its mostly NPO trying to rush an end to the war, I doubt we'll see an agreement reached in time for the deadline if NPO wants a surrender to come of this.
[/quote]
There's no logic at all in refusing to surrender now when it will just lead to surrender later but also at the added price of more damage AND reps.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffL8.jpg[/img]

[Freddy]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1326942010' post='2902622']
Crymson you can call me babe anytime.

[img]http://manhattaninfidel.com/__oneclick_uploads/2011/10/paul-bunyan.jpg[/img]


On topic, you guys need to end this war pretty soon
somehow. It's pretty boring.
[/quote]

They should just offer white peace and be done with it.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326939423' post='2902594']
It doesn't.
[/quote]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Farkistan#Foreign_Affairs

I've linked there before. If you go to that link, it has a list of treaties divided into sections. MDoAP. MDP. ODP. PITA. Protectorates.

Under PITA is says "New Polar Order". That's one of two places on the page where "New Polar Order" shows up.

You can tell me it doesn't say that all you want, but it's bloody well there.

Why you lie about stuff that anyone can see, I have no idea.

[Learz]

I didn't really read this thread, [url="http://i.imgur.com/wKgOB.jpg"]but this seemed like it would fit here.[/url]

[Horatio Longworth]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1326954503' post='2902722']
I didn't really read this thread, [url="http://i.imgur.com/wKgOB.jpg"]but this seemed like it would fit here.[/url]
[/quote]

Very fitting indeed. I lold.

[EpsilonPhoenix]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1326835999' post='2901682']
It's there until Wednesday.
[/quote]
Uhoh....

[Alterego]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1326898206' post='2902125']
But the idea that the detractors in this thread (me and Doitzel) are trying to "set NPO up for Karma 4.0" is--nothing personal, Seerow--retarded.
[/quote]

When you see the usual anti-NPO fanatics from Vox and Co come out of the woodwork attacking a peace proposal thats almost a white peace you know it can only be a NPO peace offer. I love your [ooc]south park michael jackson style "youre just ignorant"[ooc] argument. Haters got to hate

Edited January 19, 2012 by Alterego

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1326946953' post='2902674']
We did NOT refuse to accept Brehon's terms.
[/quote]
You shouldn't have refused the original terms.

[Schmoo]

bay102174 for FARK Viceroy!

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='EpsilonPhoenix' timestamp='1326956801' post='2902739']
Uhoh....
[/quote]
It got pushed to thursday since they're having a meeting, so there is still time for them to accept if they want it.

[Aeros]

I hope NPO is being specific about what will happen if FARK does not accept. Vague threats really are not coercive enough. FARK and FAN should at least go into this knowing full well the price of their decision.

[Rush Sykes]

Since it has not yet been said, I will say it.

There is zero chance that TLR would have signed that 2nd set of terms. There is a similar chance of that from other people on the FARK/FAN front in my conversations with them, but I wont drop names and speak for them, they are more than welcome to do so. This entire thread seems to be Brehon trying to take 100% of the blame for pulling that 2nd set of terms. Its simply not true. Those terms were never ever going to happen, if my talks with others on the front are any indication.

I have talked to, and told NPO as much, that I think they are trying too hard to not be a bad guy in the scenario(by offering more lenient terms after the 1st were rejected.) And that it would make them look politically weak on the world stage by giving in to demands of the losing side. The terms that Brehon offered were well intentioned, but poorly thought out, and even more poorly coordinated with others on the front. It was a human mistake, we all make them. God knows I have made some whoppers. But, those terms were doomed from the moment that they were offered.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Rush Sykes

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1326956861' post='2902740']
When you see the usual anti-NPO fanatics from Vox and Co come out of the woodwork attacking a peace proposal thats almost a white peace you know it can only be a NPO peace offer. I love your [ooc]south park michael jackson style "youre just ignorant"[ooc] argument. Haters got to hate
[/quote]
As an expert in the field of my own biases, I quote myself:
[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1326898206' post='2902125']
Cult of Justitia has spent more time allied and cooperating with NPO post-Karma than any alliance except Invicta.[/quote]
Up to and including going to war on behalf of NPO when we had no obligation at a price of $200,000,000.

I am not anti-entity, I am for or against actions and ideals, not people.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Schattenmann

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1326956861' post='2902740']
When you see the usual anti-NPO fanatics from Vox and Co come out of the woodwork attacking a peace proposal thats almost a white peace you know it can only be a NPO peace offer. I love your [ooc]south park michael jackson style "youre just ignorant"[ooc] argument. Haters got to hate
[/quote]

o.O

Alterego, Schatt has been a good friend to NPO post Karma.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1326997001' post='2902926']
As an expert in the field of my own biases, I quote myself:

Up to and including going to war on behalf of NPO when we had no obligation at a price of $200,000,000.

I am not anti-entity, I am for or against actions and ideals, not people.
[/quote]

What is it about beige peace that you find vile?

I didnt notice this level of extremism in the other surrender threads. It cant be a lack of NPO because you dont hate on anyone. You just hate these excessive terms.

[Unknown Smurf]

This looks a lot like the Legion/Tetris conflict with FAN/Fark acting like NSO.

I, for one, look forward to another VE/MK announcement.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1326997381' post='2902931']
What is it about beige peace that you find vile?

I didnt notice this level of extremism in the other surrender threads. It cant be a lack of NPO because you dont hate on anyone. You just hate these excessive terms.
[/quote]
You must have me confused with someone else; I haven't said that I find these terms vile. In point of fact, I said that:
[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1326837418' post='2901704']
I agree that FAN and Fark should get over it and just accept the terms that were originally presented, even if it means lying and making a fake apology. Make no mistake about that.[/quote]
But I am disappointed in the misrepresentations that have been made by Brehon in his capacity as Regent of the NPO, and which he has stipulated in this very thread, which is his presentation of FAN and FARK as outright refusing peace offers made, when in fact they were working actively to achieve peace, and had in fact come to an agreement with Brehon, and that in fact his previous thread was a product of his frustration with Sparta more than anything that FAN and Fark were doing, and yet he took aim at Fan and Fark.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Schattenmann

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1326997177' post='2902928']
o.O

Alterego, Schatt has been a good friend to NPO post Karma.
[/quote]
In fact, some have said a lapdog. The author of "My Fellow Pacificans" went so far as to make the mistake of claiming that CoJ and NPO have a MDoAP.

[Lanore]

Pacifica you guys are being more than generous. My alliance as you know is very lenient and gracious in giving peace terms and are opposed to things like reps as a moral constant, but I admit even I would be losing my patience if my kindness and generosity were to be insulted like this.

10 tech per person per day, offer stands for 3 days.
25 tech per person per day, with 15mil or 500tech per NPOer below 4k infra postwar after the first 3 days.
50 tech per person per day, with 30m/1k tech per NPOer below 6k infra postwar after 6 days.

I would also try and pass internally ( I'd have to deal with congress but I get the impression NPO doesn't) that once NPO reached the NS/score it had from the day they imposed the reps (aka the day 10t per person went on the board) that they would consider forgiving Fark of the reps as a show of good faith and sportsmanship.

Notably this is my personal opinion and not the opinion of my alliance.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Lanore

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1326833804' post='2901650']
That FARK is still trying to spin this as them defending a treaty partner in the 11th hour is absolutely laughable.
[/quote]

How so?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it was the best move on their part, but NPO specifically stated that they "reserved the right to use the expansion [of the war] as a valid casus belli and broaden their support beyond this declaration [DoS] to a declaration of war."

So at that point it became obvious that anyone who defended Polar was going to be attacked by those involved in the DoS, so what was wrong with Fark cutting out the middle man and going for NPO who would have hit them had they defended NpO directly anyways?

Again, I'm not saying that Fark took the best course of action here. This situation was lose-lose for them from the get go. I'm merely questioning how this could be seen as "laughable" when passed off as the defense of an ally.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Ayatollah Bromeini

[Brehon]

Misrepresentation? Stop reaching Schatt. Your underdog rah rah should have a barrier.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1327005720' post='2902995']
How so?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it was the best move on their part, but NPO specifically stated that they "reserved the right to use the expansion [of the war] as a valid casus belli and broaden their support beyond this declaration [DoS] to a declaration of war."

So at that point it became obvious that anyone who defended Polar was going to be attacked by those involved in the DoS, so what was wrong with Fark cutting out the middle man and going for NPO who would have hit them had they defended NpO directly anyways?

Again, I'm not saying that Fark took the best course of action here. This situation was lose-lose for them from the get go. I'm merely questioning how this could be seen as "laughable" when passed off as the defense of an ally.
[/quote]
Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that they didn't hit any of the alliances actually attacking their ally first? It's pretty clear it was a naked attempt to start a more favorable, controllable front which would, in their minds, avoid the majority of the heavy hitters. If I had to guess, I'd say they were expecting to fight only the still rebuilding remnants of the ex-heg, and not NG, GOONS, TLR, etc.

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1327006560' post='2903000']
Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that they didn't hit any of the alliances actually attacking their ally first? It's pretty clear it was a naked attempt to start a more favorable, controllable front which would, in their minds, avoid the majority of the heavy hitters. If I had to guess, I'd say they were expecting to fight only the still rebuilding remnants of the ex-heg, and not NG, GOONS, TLR, etc.
[/quote]

The latter point is a fair one, and that may very well be true. As for your first sentence, if they would have hit TOP or IRON, Pacifica would have hit them as they stated that they would, which would have greatly hurt their efforts in defending their ally. So I don't see how tying NPO's hands and hitting them before they could hit any of the alliances who directly attacked those who were attacking NpO couldn't be considered as helping their ally. Sure, it wasn't a direct attack on TOP, IRON, etc, but I can still see how they would think that doing what they did was really just making the best of a bad situation for them while still helping out Polar.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Baldr' timestamp='1326950875' post='2902702']
Under PITA is says "New Polar Order". That's one of two places on the page where "New Polar Order" shows up.
[/quote]

If you're trying to argue Polar and FARK doesn't have an ODP, but instead a PIAT you're !@#$@#$ retarded. What makes this argument even worse is a PIAT and an ODP are basically the same damn thing. Both Wikis list it as an ODP though. So please just shut the $%&@ up.

This should help you out:
[spoiler]
[img]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/Omniscientone/NpO-FARK.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/Omniscientone/FARK-NpO.jpg[/img]
[/spoiler]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1326997407' post='2902932']
I, for one, look forward to another VE/MK announcement.
[/quote]

That'd be pretty funny.

[quote]Actually, I was surprised IAA didn't cancel Polar over Legion. They should have and we could have avoided a lot of headaches.[/quote]

In a normal situation it probably would have happened, but besides The Listener we had the most inactive government ever at the time. I got appointed MoFA just before the war so it wasn't like me and TL could have really done anything at that point. I remember Chimey was really mad and came on and !@#$%*ed a while. Then he didn't show back up until he showed up drunk sometime during the war.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Omniscient1

[nippy]

ehhhhehehehe....you can really tell the age/maturity of those you're negotiating with when the idea of admitting defeat is countered with a suggestion of awarding each side a certificate of participation.