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FARK/FAN vs NPO up to date


Brehon

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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1327037265' post='2903418']
[quote]Methrage, on 19 January 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:
From what I can tell Fark and FAN are having a good time enjoying the war, so they're not in a big rush to surrender and aren't overly concerned about their pixels either. So if they're having fun and its mostly NPO trying to rush an end to the war, I doubt we'll see an agreement reached in time for the deadline if NPO wants a surrender to come of this.[/quote]

Seems my prediction was correct.
[/quote]

They won't be getting surrender terms for six months if they keep up this !@#$%^ry

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They have no reason to care about that at this point. You guys gloated about the same thing last year. Difference is, you still had something to lose. On the other hand, they have no sanction to lose. Eventually, the alliances on your side will get tired of being at war for you, so either Fark caves before that or you have to give something up.

Edited by Roquentin
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[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1327122440' post='2904064']
Yes actually Cortath, that is exactly when I learned how the NPO operated.
[/quote]

Well, given my recollection that you were so entirely unable to follow any of the rules and principles of Pacifica that you were forced to leave the alliance, I confess being unsure how much credence to give your claim that you are intimately familiar with the leadership practices of Pacfica at her highest levels.

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[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1327148508' post='2904147']They won't be getting surrender terms for six months if they keep up this !@#$%^ry[/quote]
Comrade, you need to inform yourself. Visit the halls of Francograd. There is no need for them fighting words.

Also, something I noticed. Somebody give Roq some governmental position. Just to put that time/energy which he showed last weeks in these halls with constant talking, to some constructive use.

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[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1327132767' post='2904117']
In addition, I don't really like the fact that the alliances that oAed onto Fark are being called bandwagoners. If you don't think NPO wanted them to come in, you should think twice. [b]You signed a bloc that enables coalition warfare in a legalistic sense, and being critical of others doing the same thing except without a bloc is hypocritical.[/b]
[/quote]

This is actually a very good point.

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War is a negotiating tatic one uses to force the other party to accept your terms. You have won when they accept. They have lost when they accept. To say that FAN/FARK have lost this war at this point in time shows ones ignorance. The fact that FAN/FARK show no interest in accepting generous and easy terms shows that they rather enjoy war over peace. Collect taxes once every 20 days or do battle with multiple opponents each and every day. It would appear that FAN/FARK enjoy war and dispise peace.

So what does NPO offer them, "PEACE". That's not what they want, they want war. It is clear that the only way to get F/F to accept your peace terms is to deny them what they want. Move all your nations into P/M and stop attacking them. Force peace upon them if that's what you want, for it is clear they don't.

I look forward to seeing how this ends as one cannot declare winners and losers until it's over and the fat lady sings.

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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327159287' post='2904184']
War is a negotiating tatic one uses to force the other party to accept your terms. You have won when they accept. They have lost when they accept. To say that FAN/FARK have lost this war at this point in time shows ones ignorance. The fact that FAN/FARK show no interest in accepting generous and easy terms shows that they rather enjoy war over peace. Collect taxes once every 20 days or do battle with multiple opponents each and every day. It would appear that FAN/FARK enjoy war and dispise peace.

So what does NPO offer them, "PEACE". That's not what they want, they want war. It is clear that the only way to get F/F to accept your peace terms is to deny them what they want. Move all your nations into P/M and stop attacking them. Force peace upon them if that's what you want, for it is clear they don't.

I look forward to seeing how this ends as one cannot declare winners and losers until it's over and the fat lady sings.
[/quote]

Your understanding of war is terribly flawed.

Just because what I call losing (i.e. mine enemies' destruction), FAN/FARK calls "winning," does not mean that I have not won or that mine enemies have not lost. War is a fundamentally reality-based enterprise. Though propaganda plays a role, and post-war perceptions of foreign policy should always be on one's mind, ultimately, wars are won or lost on the field of battle.

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[quote name='Cortath' timestamp='1327159983' post='2904187']
[Snip] wars are won or lost on the field of battle.
[/quote]

Wars are won when you have lesened your opponents will to fight and they accept your will. The battlefield means nothing, you have to conquer your oppoents mind.

Good luck with that! lol

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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327161498' post='2904191']
Wars are won when you have lesened your opponents will to fight and they accept your will. The battlefield means nothing, you have to conquer your oppoents mind.

Good luck with that! lol
[/quote]
Why conquer their minds when you can slit their throats?

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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327161498' post='2904191']
Wars are won when you have lesened your opponents will to fight and they accept your will. The battlefield means nothing, you have to conquer your oppoents mind.

Good luck with that! lol
[/quote]

If that's the case, then clearly for all their flaws, Fark has a much stronger mind than Sparta does.

Not that anyone's too terribly surprised by that.

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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327159287' post='2904184']
War is a negotiating tatic one uses to force the other party to accept your terms. You have won when they accept. They have lost when they accept. To say that FAN/FARK have lost this war at this point in time shows ones ignorance. The fact that FAN/FARK show no interest in accepting generous and easy terms shows that they rather enjoy war over peace. Collect taxes once every 20 days or do battle with multiple opponents each and every day. It would appear that FAN/FARK enjoy war and dispise peace.

So what does NPO offer them, "PEACE". That's not what they want, they want war. It is clear that the only way to get F/F to accept your peace terms is to deny them what they want. Move all your nations into P/M and stop attacking them. Force peace upon them if that's what you want, for it is clear they don't.

I look forward to seeing how this ends as one cannot declare winners and losers until it's over and the fat lady sings.
[/quote]

That type of manipulation might work on toddlers, but FARK drinks way too much beer to be that small. I see what you are getting at though.

The reality of the situation is that they are both destroyed for the most part. FAN can fight NPO forever at this point and I think they would both be happy, and nobody else cares anymore. FARK is a different story altogether. By stubbornly continuing to take massive damage when peace is available, they not only gamble their own future, but their allies as well. Foolish. I might be a bit upset with them if I were in XX and now all they are doing is weakening the bloc for the next war cycle.

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[quote name='Schmoo' timestamp='1327163807' post='2904203']
That type of manipulation might work on toddlers, but FARK drinks way too much beer to be that small. I see what you are getting at though.

The reality of the situation is that they are both destroyed for the most part. FAN can fight NPO forever at this point and I think they would both be happy, and nobody else cares anymore. FARK is a different story altogether. By stubbornly continuing to take massive damage when peace is available, they not only gamble their own future, but their allies as well. Foolish. I might be a bit upset with them if I were in XX and now all they are doing is weakening the bloc for the next war cycle.
[/quote]

Not really, Schmoo. The thing is, Fark has hit a bottom more or less. The issue they had before the war was that people had gotten tired of Planet Bob. The war is regenerating interest in some of the alliance. If the leadership caves to demands by external parties that they see as over the top, morale will go down. Like with IRON in BPW, peron said he had to get an offer he could present as acceptable to his membership in order to make it through.

Edited by Roquentin
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[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1327164062' post='2904206']
If the leadership caves to demands by external parties that they see as over the top, morale will go down. Like with IRON in BPW, peron said he had to get an offer he could present as acceptable to his membership in order to make it through.
[/quote]

This is very much true in all war situations. Certainly, the loser has a right to refuse terms, and the winner cannot expect any entitlement to just ending things whenever they want.

The issue in this situation of course, is it is a bit hard to justify what was on offer as "over the top"

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It's all perception, really, even if it seems ridiculous to the outside.

"We can't lose our sanction if we agree to your terms" vs "We can't do x" in this scenario.

Edited by Roquentin
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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327161498' post='2904191']
Wars are won when you have lesened your opponents will to fight and they accept your will. The battlefield means nothing, you have to conquer your oppoents mind.

Good luck with that! lol
[/quote]

In order to win, I have to make my opponents "accept my will?" What kind of Kantian claptrap is that? I need only crush them, drive them from me, and hear the lamentations of their women to know that I have won.

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[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1327164062' post='2904206']
Not really, Schmoo. The thing is, Fark has hit a bottom more or less. The issue they had before the war was that people had gotten tired of Planet Bob. The war is regenerating interest in some of the alliance. If the leadership caves to demands by external parties that they see as over the top, morale will go down. Like with IRON in BPW, peron said he had to get an offer he could present as acceptable to his membership in order to make it through.
[/quote]

I agree IRON had hit bottom in bipolar, but that is where similarities end. We knew within hours that we would be getting bent over in the end. And by the time ESA were signed we just wanted to stop the bleeding. We had a dozen more alliances on us and we knew it was time. Gre did end up seeing what IRON would do with over the top demands.

FARK is facing nothing like IRON did in bipolar except the getting crushed part.


EDIT: Major usage fail

Edited by Schmoo
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[quote name='Schmoo' timestamp='1327204897' post='2904482']
I agree IRON had hit bottom in bipolar, but that is where similarities end. We knew within hours that we would be getting bent over in the end. And by the time ESA were signed we just wanted to stop the bleeding. We had a dozen more alliances on us and we knew it was time. Gre did end up seeing what IRON would do with over the top demands.

FARK is facing nothing like IRON did in bipolar [i]accept[/i] the getting crushed part.
[/quote]
You mean [i]except[/i].

IRON had to win a war, Bi Polar and the TOP front was the 2nd crushing defeat in a row IRON faced, and IRON had to come out and reverse things to get into a winning position.

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