A Briefest Comment on RIA

[King Wally]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1322825378' post='2859307']
Menotoah joins the war, RIA you really have set an all time low!

Sentinel has more courage than SF

Congrats SF on such an accomplishment, we will make sure we will never forget this accomplishment
[/quote]

I was wondering mr Diabloz if you feel that Fear has more corage then PC and iFOK did back prior to when they merged to create NG? For you see I never forget a large range of accomplishments much like you dear son. And yes I know you were never in PC or iFOK and that you only joined NG recently but if your going to get on the soap box and make sweeping statements then you should at least do so with some respect toward recent [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/NEW-DF_War"]Ironic Facts[/url] that are staring the rest of us in the face.

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1322803441' post='2859014']
For everyone calling RIA cowards, you're clearly retarded. There are many reasons for people to single out and hate SF, but that's just because you most likely jumped on the bandwagon. RIA is an alliance, about 8 months ago who attacked both sides of a war to help us out in Rok when we came in for Polar. I can never call them a coward because they sacrificed so we could make our stand. Every other one of our 22 treaties said no. In fact, Sparta lied to all of our gov when confronted about it. Well that was Hyperion, and he was a coward. I hold no love for most of SF, i'll admit that, but if people want them so bad go and hit them. But don't call them cowards because you're too afraid to start your own war. RIA is some of the best allies you can have and I'll never forget what they did for Rok, but if you can sit here and think that not entering this war is RIA's decision alone, you're crazy.
[/quote]


You got to be f^*% kidding

We had a non chaining MDoAP, you chose to defend Polar, which AT THAT TIME was one of the most hated alliances in our lands. ALMOST ALL of our allies were at the other side of the war and you say we were cowards?

good to know, I know now what I will call you (not your alliance since I, and I can say most Spartans, genuinely like) if Fark joins the current war and you dont defend them.

Edited December 2, 2011 by King Louis the II

[janax]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1322836359' post='2859360']
You got to be f^*% kidding

We had a non chaining MDoAP, you chose to defend Polar, which AT THAT TIME was one of the most hated alliances in our lands. ALMOST ALL of our allies were at the other side of the war and you say we were cowards?

good to know, I know now what I will call you (not your alliance since I, and I can say most Spartans, genuinely like) if Fark joins the current war and you dont defend them.
[/quote]

You'll call them using a non-chaining treaty to not chain?

Or will you continue to not know how treaties work? I've explained it a few times.

[eyriq]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322802370' post='2858993']

I wouldn't agree with this at all. I think you are way more realpolitik than he is, and you want to win and achieve absolute political dominance at all costs, and I think he is a lot more interested in creating an interesting world. And I wish both of you luck. The world needs struggle. With that said, IMO, you would do a lot better to ally Xiph and integrate him and SF into your political sphere than to try to roll him. Letting the whole PB thing break up Supergrievances, and going to Doomhouse IMO was a huge step backwards in terms of forming a political entity that could actually control anything. An outright merger of PB, SF, and CnG back in the day (probably with some individual alliance mergers being pushed along as part of it, and bringing in people like Sparta and eventually NPO) would have created a kick ass superbloc that would probably still be around beating on people today. It would have been nice to ally TOP too before the whole BiPolar thing, but my attempts to build a relationship there mostly went nowhere. It's foolish for the most competent people to strike at the other most competent people for no real reason other than to FIGHT, because it wears down the vital strength of both - especially in the modern era of game mechanics. We could have spent a Looooooong time properly mopping up ex-Heg had the right political moves been made, but alas, they were not. And then perhaps the shattered remains of ex-Heg would have come together to form a competent alliance, much like what happened with ex-Aegis and UjP remnants forming MK. It's hard to say.
[/quote]

Whoa Nelly! You are really driving this pro-hegemony narrative hard. You want to create a multilateral superstructure that can pick off opposition with ease, you would prefer that wars against the old-heg continued, and yet in another thread you mentioned the hardship of our age being wars against political pariahs? If you want something, at least want it for the right reasons. Multilateral organizations are for collective security and pursuit of interests, if you build one that contains 1/4 of all available NS, you are [i]only[/i] going to get wars against political pariahs, because most of the other multilateral orgs will tie themselves bilaterally to your member orgs, leaving only those pariahs that are isolated to be targeted. Fun times?

MK has it right if not a bit too extreme; multilateral orgs should be small and diverse. They seem to prefer there only existing alliances, while what have is something in between with several different blocs, ranging from tier one blocs like the SF/XX cluster and the PB/DH cluster, to your tier two Mj/DR cluster and C&G, to your tier three PF, and then others further down the list. This much diffusion in NS has led to uncertainty but not really that much as we've been enjoying the "Winter is Coming" theme and seen that defining relations. Honestly, like I said in the other thread this current political state is rather new and unique, lets see how it play out before jumping on an old and tired model. Eh?

[Diabloz]

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1322830176' post='2859328']
I was wondering mr Diabloz if you feel that Fear has more corage then PC and iFOK did back prior to when they merged to create NG? For you see I never forget a large range of accomplishments much like you dear son. And yes I know you were never in PC or iFOK and that you only joined NG recently but if your going to get on the soap box and make sweeping statements then you should at least do so with some respect toward recent [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/NEW-DF_War"]Ironic Facts[/url] that are staring the rest of us in the face.
[/quote]

I fully expected someone to come by and start talking about PC & iFOK and the NEW-DF war. Well Does RIA have a treaty with TOP? No. So i guess your point is invalid

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1322840526' post='2859389']
I fully expected someone to come by and start talking about PC & iFOK and the NEW-DF war. Well Does RIA have a treaty with TOP? No. So i guess your point is invalid
[/quote]

Pray tell us, what conflicting treaty did you have that prevented your entry into the war? Genuinely curious as I can't remember for the life of me anything other than the CB for that war.

[Stewie]

Diabloz, stop posting.
You were not in PC or iFOK.

[Diabloz]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1322842599' post='2859406']
Pray tell us, what conflicting treaty did you have that prevented your entry into the war? Genuinely curious as I can't remember for the life of me anything other than the CB for that war.
[/quote]

I'll let someone who was in one of these alliances answer you on this one. So you can't really blame me for irony.

[Stewie]

Basically our entire FA was on the FARK-DF side of the war at the time. NEW asked us not to enter as well.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1322836359' post='2859360']
You got to be f^*% kidding

We had a non chaining MDoAP, you chose to defend Polar, which AT THAT TIME was one of the most hated alliances in our lands. ALMOST ALL of our allies were at the other side of the war and you say we were cowards?

good to know, I know now what I will call you (not your alliance since I, and I can say most Spartans, genuinely like) if Fark joins the current war and you dont defend them.
[/quote]

Rok didn't ask you once to defend us, In fact we told you not too. I personally told Hyperion and Unholy that Rok was going in on the side of polar. Yet when we declared your gov came running and screaming that we didn't tell you and we were idiots. I said I told Hyperion and unholy and Hyperion lied right to my face and said I never told him, and then he said he would try to get our treaty cancelled. We weren't going to call the treaty, but I guess even the thought of losing your infra curdles your stomach and enrages your government.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Joe Stupid

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1322844775' post='2859431']
Rok didn't ask you once to defend us, In fact we told you not too. I personally told Hyperion and Unholy that Rok was going in on the side of polar. Yet when we declared your gov came running and screaming that we didn't tell you and we were idiots. I said I told Hyperion and unholy and Hyperion lied right to my face and said I never told him, and then he said he would try to get our treaty cancelled. We weren't going to call the treaty, [b]but I guess even the thought of losing your infra curdles your stomach and enrages your government.[/b]
[/quote]

... which was exactly why Sparta went in against NV knowing full well they'd be getting hit by AZTEC and their assorted allies, right?

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1322847917' post='2859454']
... which was exactly why Sparta went in against NV knowing full well they'd be getting hit by AZTEC and their assorted allies, right?
[/quote]

Hey man, don't ruin their glorious self aggrandizing rendition of history.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1322797973' post='2858889']
Actually, it kind of does. Had you read the thread rather then just reading what suits your desires, you would have seen that it has been discussed.

Then again, if you've got doubts in TPF and the fashion in which we honor our treaties, perhaps thats a concern you should take up with your government, since our two alliances hold a treaty as well.
[/quote]


I thought canceled that treaty after MCXA bailed out of a war within a week...again??

[rsoxbronco1]

It really is showing a total lack of history to waste any time trying to criticize Sparta's recent history.

Sparta came in for C&G and hit TOP, playing a role that ANYONE in C&G gov/milcom will tell you was absolutely crucial for our victory.

Then last winter Sparta more or less took on AZTEC.

There are some rather well known alliances that have shirked fighting on the front lines in the last couple wars, but Sparta is not one of them.

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1322837519' post='2859372']
You'll call them using a non-chaining treaty to not chain?

Or will you continue to not know how treaties work? I've explained it a few times.
[/quote]

I guess you were too lazy to read the post. Read it again, He is referring to Sparta not defending Ragnarok in BP. If he is saying that the same would apply to Rok-fark in the current war.

Edited December 2, 2011 by King Louis the II

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1322844775' post='2859431']
Rok didn't ask you once to defend us, In fact we told you not too. I personally told Hyperion and Unholy that Rok was going in on the side of polar. Yet when we declared your gov came running and screaming that we didn't tell you and we were idiots. I said I told Hyperion and unholy and Hyperion lied right to my face and said I never told him, and then he said he would try to get our treaty cancelled. We weren't going to call the treaty, but I guess even the thought of losing your infra curdles your stomach and enrages your government.
[/quote]

I don't know what you are talking about and Hyperion deleted, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. What I know is Ragnarok was respected and liked by Sparta during and after the war. I personally talked to Bob when you were thinking about revising your treaties and actually asked if you guys needed help in rebuilding.

If you really think "the thought of losing your infra curdles your stomach and enrages your government" as the reason for us not staying on your side, well them your nick suits you well.

Edited December 2, 2011 by King Louis the II

[Diabloz]

Why is this starting to move away from the original topic?

Really there is nothing more entertaining than watching RIA backoff and sentinel doing the job instead of SF! really shows pure courage by sf Oh wait.. Its sentinel with the courage, SF best infra huggers. Makes sense now

[LittleRena]

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1322856041' post='2859530']
Then last winter Sparta more or less took on AZTEC.
[/quote]

But they knew that they could always call in MHA and Fark to counter any attacks, also if AZTEC at the time had about as many nations as Sparta then it isn't really really an achivement.

Nation count is more important in terms of balance than alliance count. Sparta v AZTEC was possibly fair fight because I don't think AZTEC had more nations, correct me if I am wrong.

Not sure how unbalenced it became when AZTECs allies came in, I don't have the stats to hand, doing a bit of guesstimating.

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1322857390' post='2859557']
stuff
[/quote]

NG should put a gag on you, you're repeating the same stuff over and over

Edited December 2, 2011 by LittleRena

[King Wally]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1322857390' post='2859557']
Why is this starting to move away from the original topic?

Really there is nothing more entertaining than watching RIA backoff and sentinel doing the job instead of SF! really shows pure courage by sf Oh wait.. Its sentinel with the courage, SF best infra huggers. Makes sense now
[/quote]

Do I really have to have this conversation again with you cause I was going to leave it as a one off comment but if you want to keep jumping on top of your moral high horse lets re-debate the reasons why your alliance's merger AA's decided not to defend their MDP ally last december why dont we. How about you start by explaining what conflicting treatys PC had with FARK perhaps?

My point is not to berate NG but to point out that there are many reasons why a MDP may not be activated or may be delayed... and your own alliance leaders have had to face that in very recent times.

[Holy Empire of Halin]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1322857776' post='2859564']
But they knew that they could always call in MHA and Fark to counter any attacks, also if AZTEC at the time had about as many nations as Sparta then it isn't really really an achivement.
[/quote]

Sparta didnt call in any of her allies, Fark and MHA decided to join in on their own terms. Fark even had an oDP/PIAT with Sparta at the time, so no one planned on it. In terms of nations AZTEC had more nations at the time.

[IYIyTh]

Oh my, the post-war posturing has already begun.

[flak attack]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1322857776' post='2859564']
But they knew that they could always call in MHA and Fark to counter any attacks, also if AZTEC at the time had about as many nations as Sparta then it isn't really really an achivement.
[/quote]
Actually, Fark and MHA had every intention of sitting it out and Sparta was well aware of this fact. It wasn't until after Sparta had engaged that MHA and Fark decided to assist them.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1322857776' post='2859564']
Nation count is more important in terms of balance than alliance count. Sparta v AZTEC was possibly fair fight because I don't think AZTEC had more nations, correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote]
I'm 99% sure that AZTEC had both more nations and more ns than Sparta.

[Diabloz]

Well, looks like the topic diversion is complete enjoy!

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Holy Empire of Halin' timestamp='1322858129' post='2859567']
Sparta didnt call in any of her allies, Fark and MHA decided to join in on their own terms. Fark even had an oDP/PIAT with Sparta at the time, so no one planned on it. In terms of nations AZTEC had more nations at the time.
[/quote]

Yeah I remember that, and at the time AZTEC was, in aggregate, bigger than Sparta by a fair bit.

Let me see if I can get the stats. Ah yeah my stats go back that far

SPARTA Side: as of 23/01/11 (when they declared on NV)
Sparta: 320 Nations (257 active, 80%) 11,096,144 NS, 34,675 AVG NS, 3,380 Nukes, 42.24 Score, 695,189 Tech, 1,735,399 Infra

AZTEC Side: as of 23/01/11
Nueva Vida: 107 Nations (82 active, 77%) 5,342,820 NS, 49,933 AVG NS, 1,267 Nukes, 19.56 Score, 314,059 Tech, 840,307 Infra
Colossus: 63 Nations (55 active, 87%) 2,495,204 NS, 39,606 AVG NS, 706 Nukes, 9.35 Score, 143,460 Tech, 420,085 Infra
GLOF: 115 Nations (99 active, 86%) 4,453,927 NS, 38,730 AVG NS, 1,061 Nukes, 16.73 Score, 240,973 Tech, 763,510 Infra
Quantum: 27 Nations (20 active, 74%) 587,098 NS, 21,744 AVG NS, 149 Nukes, 2.40 Score, 31,707 Tech, 102,381 Infra
WAPA: 68 Nations (49 active, 72%), 3,012,317 NS, 44,299 AVG NS, 790 Nukes, 11.16 Score, 163,963 Tech, 496,602 Infra

TOTAL: 380 Nations (305 active, 80%), 15,891,366 NS, 41,819 AVG NS, 3,973 Nukes, 59.20 Score, 894,162 Tech, 2,622,885 Infra

AZTEC had more of everything, though it looks like Sparta's tech to infra ratio was much better than AZTEC's.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1322858299' post='2859571']
Actually, Fark and MHA had every intention of sitting it out and Sparta was well aware of this fact. It wasn't until after Sparta had engaged that MHA and Fark decided to assist them.

I'm 99% sure that AZTEC had both more nations and more ns than Sparta.
[/quote]

Alright, fair enough, I was making a wild guess and I totally forgot to include Quantum in my guesses since I thought they had ceased being an alliance before the war, I didn't do any research because I'm not too intrested in discussing the details of the last war, I've moved on