kriekfreak Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Why do people still think this was a ploy to get to NpO? It wasn't. UPN messed up during and after negotiations (still missing your calculations on how 6mil was warranted UPN) and are now paying the price. I personally kicked NpO's ass 3 times already and I have no intention to make it 4 times. It's just getting boring fighting NpO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317447379' post='2813238'] Why do people still think this was a ploy to get to NpO? It wasn't. UPN messed up during and after negotiations (still missing your calculations on how 6mil was warranted UPN) and are now paying the price. I personally kicked NpO's ass 3 times already and I have no intention to make it 4 times. It's just getting boring fighting NpO. [/quote] "calculations" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Systemfailure Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 the fact that this war is basically over 30mil is so damn ridiculous that im having a hard time believing that UPN and NG aren't using this as a prelude to a treaty between the 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 People if we learned anything from the last war you can hit anyone you want. If NG wanted to hit NpO they would hit NpO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317447379' post='2813238'] Why do people still think this was a ploy to get to NpO? [/quote] I have no difficulty believing that, for your own honourable personage, it was exactly as you say. I have no difficulty believing that, for some portion of your membership, and some likely larger portion of your allies' membership, it was indeed a ploy to get Polar. Life isn't so black and white as honourable folk like you and I would like. Yet somehow we shall persevere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1317430619' post='2813073'] I assure you, there is nobody scared of attacking Polar. [/quote] Then attack them, it will make for an interesting show and you know you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317461337' post='2813276'] Then attack them, it will make for an interesting show and you know you want to. [/quote] Interesting in what sense? We all know what the outcome would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317461487' post='2813278'] Interesting in what sense? We all know what the outcome would be. [/quote] I'm not sure if NpO would call their allies or do what UPN is doing here, but it would be interesting to see how much aggression the current hegemony can get away with before it causes them problems. The more wars they start, the sooner they start meeting resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1317460892' post='2813273'] I have no difficulty believing that, for your own honourable personage, it was exactly as you say. I have no difficulty believing that, for some portion of your membership, and some likely larger portion of your allies' membership, it was indeed a ploy to get Polar. Life isn't so black and white as honourable folk like you and I would like. Yet somehow we shall persevere. [/quote] Well it might be true that a portion of my membership wanted NpO to get involved after this escalated into warfare, myself included but that doesn't mean this was pre-set up or something. You of all people should know that we are men of principle and that we don't really care about losing pixels (quite the opposite, we love it). We came to UPN with the figure we (and now many of us even the nay-sayers) thought was absolute minimum and very reasonable and instead of something close the figure we got slapped in the face with 6mil. If UPN really thought they were our friends, than I don't want to be their friends because this is not how you treat friends. And with regards to my allies. I hold them all very dear but they don't decide how much reps we charge or if we escalate this. This was NG, all NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='GDI Crossfire' timestamp='1317437696' post='2813155'] o/ UPN, I wish all of your members the best of luck, NG just disband.... [/quote] How about putting your money where your mouth is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 What is there to debate about? We $%&@ed up, and we admit that - the whole purpose of this thread was to declare that we acknowledge that we made a mistake. However saying that, we did not chose war, and I felt that NG were rather rash with their declaration, as the end of both our conversations implied that we would be carrying on the discussion. Saying that, I am not trying to point fingers, at the end of the day we know we messed up, and we're willing to take a licking for it ( and hopefully dish some out ) As for this whole "ploy" discussion, it isn't a coherent argument, considering that technically UPN started this fiasco ( i.e if the raid didn't take place, we wouldn't be here.) So to say that this was some sort of ploy to get to Polaris would be silly. ... and the last thing I would like to repeat is; Polaris, and several other allies pretty much came to us and said "We are ready to do what you feel is necessary." And it was solely our decision to refuse that help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 It has probably already been discussed many times over, but I will never understand the reason for having mutual [b]defense[/b] pacts if you're not going to use them in defense of your alliance. Do they exist just to make people feel good about themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1317472546' post='2813311'] It has probably already been discussed many times over, but I will never understand the reason for having mutual [b]defense[/b] pacts if you're not going to use them in defense of your alliance. Do they exist just to make people feel good about themselves? [/quote] When the CB is fabricated and stupid ( as they tend to be in CN, ) then there is no doubt about it, that you should activate the treaties. However in a case like this, I am pretty sure we are entitled to ask our allies to sit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TECUMSEH Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote] I don't want to be their friends because this is not how you treat friends[/quote] I'm sorry to hear that, Arexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1317472658' post='2813312'] When the CB is fabricated and stupid ( as they tend to be in CN, ) then there is no doubt about it, that you should activate the treaties. However in a case like this, I am pretty sure we are entitled to ask our allies to sit out. [/quote] You're entitled to do whatever you want. And in this instance, you might even be right. I just see this kind of thing happening on a more frequent basis as of late and most of the time it's pretty lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nikita Ilyich Lenin' timestamp='1317443102' post='2813197'] pretty much :{ [/quote] Well, sometimes when you don't play nice, your playmates don't want to play with you anymore. If UPN let this escalate, your alliance and its allies would drag this war into a months long curbstomp that would only end when UPN and friends either accept months long surrender terms or get so beaten down that they just kind of fade away (as in the case of FAN or OCUK). You may say that you're not like that, and you may be telling the truth, but every "great" war since GWIII has gone that way (no matter who was on the "winning" side) so I have to say that I don't believe you. Is it really that hard to understand why UPN would want to spare its allies that, especially for something that they're admitting was their screwup? Edited October 1, 2011 by Duncan King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blake Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1317468533' post='2813296'] As for this whole "ploy" discussion, it isn't a coherent argument, considering that technically UPN started this fiasco ( i.e if the raid didn't take place, we wouldn't be here.) So to say that this was some sort of ploy to get to Polaris would be silly. [/quote] So what you're saying is...UPN was in on the ploy to roll Polar!!! You monsters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I think all of Polar's allies including Polar themselves are accidentally part of the ploy to roll Polar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtkode Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 You will always be friends to ARES mates, keep on truckin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317447379' post='2813238'] Why do people still think this was a ploy to get to NpO? [/quote] There are a few reasons. [quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1317319496' post='2811895'] The only appropriate solution for this for TOP to declare on Polar for being terrible allies and not helping regardless. [/quote] [quote name='Jgoods45' timestamp='1317319610' post='2811901'] I [b]hate[/b] UPN so much right now. Please die a slow painful death. That is all. [/quote] [quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317323182' post='2811979'] So what I get from this thread is that NpO wont back its ally, most likely because they don't want tanked by half of CN and UPN are as equally incompetent without Peggysue. At least you recognise you have a completely inept government, especially your MoD, that's progress. [/quote] [quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317323533' post='2811990'] you guys should have a ODP. It at least will save anyone looking like cowards in the future. [/quote] [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1317335603' post='2812176'] What happened to the scars and committment? [/quote] [quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1317342533' post='2812247'] Does this mean the world can now assume the entire Polar/Legion part of the treaty web no longer exists? Because that's what it looks like right now. We've had Legions protected forums spilled onto the OWF, UINE rolled, and now UPN Rolled, and nothing can seem to get the frozen north to budge. [/quote] [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1317362175' post='2812478'] Those scars sure are something to behold. [/quote] [quote name='Baltus' timestamp='1317422990' post='2812990'] Why do you do this to us UPN? Why? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317462271' post='2813280'] Well it might be true that a portion of my membership wanted NpO to get involved after this escalated into warfare, myself included but that doesn't mean this was pre-set up or something. [/quote] I didnt mean to imply that I did, and looking back now what I wrote was somewhat stupid. What I was trying to say is perhaps at most there might have been a certain sense going into negotiations that success (in terms of negotiations) wasnt really desireable anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1317490916' post='2813408'] I didnt mean to imply that I did, and looking back now what I wrote was somewhat stupid. What I was trying to say is perhaps at most there might have been a certain sense going into negotiations that success (in terms of negotiations) wasnt really desireable anyway. [/quote] We like UPN. We didn't expect them to slap us in the face with the amount they proposed. I think our gov thought it wasn't going to be resolved and pressed one with the only remaining resolution (war). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1317490090' post='2813402'] There are a few reasons. [/quote] Just because people were hoping that Polar would join the fray does not mean that was why the fray started..........You're saying it's "Hey let's beat up UPN and bait Polar..Awww they didn't take the bait..." when its "hey UPN $%&@ed up maybe we'll get to kick Polar around a little too....aww $%&@ UPN and their thread..." big difference there. You guys are reading too much into the disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conistonslim Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) [quote]Just because people were hoping that Polar would join the fray does not mean that was why the fray started[/quote] I'm willing to take NG's word that this is the case, but from an outsiders perspective the way the negotiations ended so abruptly compounded by the baiting and insults in this thread you can understand why one could have believed otherwise. Edited October 1, 2011 by conistonslim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1317490090' post='2813402'] There are a few reasons. [/quote] How does that even come close to a [i]ploy[/i]? This is just disappointment about the conflict not escalating and in no way prove or evidence of some evil scheme designed to lure in Polar through UPN. This is a conflict between UPN and NG and I hope it gets resolved soon. Anyone out for Polar will get them whenever they want whatever way they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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