An Invitation from the Mushroom Kingdom

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310297218' post='2753828']
Yes. You did.

At least Electron Sponge took responsibility for his actions.

You, on the other hand, think I am only talking about Invicta. Yeah, Invicta took a hit for you - and much as you want to believe otherwise, the fact is that we were there for you and UPN, and nobody else - but Invicta's role in your war was relatively minor. By your series of betrayals, you guaranteed the triumph of the power structure now known as Pandora's Box.

This was obviously really smart.
[/quote]

No, I didn't. See how that works. I did not send out Polar's FA crew to recruit anyone before or after I had attacked \m/, I did send them out asking our allies to stay out of it. I never directly or indirectly approached TOP, Invicta or any other of the ''betrayed'' alliances. I assembled nothing, you assembled yourselves and you seem to hold me responsible for you being there when the choice and responsibility was yours and yours alone.

TOP have a genuine grievance, I had a genuine grievance but some of you are opportunist scum who ride the waves of CN looking to make yourselves look important, contributing nothing but excess NS to be sacrificed at the appropriate times

I have taken responsibility for my actions, I know exactly what I did, but unfortunately it isn't exactly what I am blamed for.

Series of betrayals? You will have to help me with the concept of series here, what exactly are you accusing me of now?

As for Crymson, mate you haven't released anything like the logs of that era, just what suited your cause. I screwed you, but your contribution was far greater than mine was.

As for PB coming to power, yes I agree with you. I did not expect MK to be the complete scum they have proved themselves to be once their moral compass left active service. I should have expected it, but I gave them far more( or less, as the case may be) credit than they obviously deserved.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310308792' post='2753878']
Please point to me the page and section number in the Cybernations Rule Book that states that a CB must be used by X amount of days.

D34th: Your MoFA and his assistant recently requested an embassy over at our forums and being the nice people that we are we granted them their request. Since that moment they have failed to show up. Should I chalk this up to forgetfulness or a lack of balls on their part?
[/quote]
Well, it's been all of two days since then, so yeah, you're right, we got scared and ran home to Dajobo.

It seems to me more like there was a problem with the mask.

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310332418' post='2754028']
No, I didn't. See how that works. I did not send out Polar's FA crew to recruit anyone before or after I had attacked \m/, I did send them out asking our allies to stay out of it. I never directly or indirectly approached TOP, Invicta or any other of the ''betrayed'' alliances. I assembled nothing, you assembled yourselves and you seem to hold me responsible for you being there when the choice and responsibility was yours and yours alone.

TOP have a genuine grievance, I had a genuine grievance but some of you are opportunist scum who ride the waves of CN looking to make yourselves look important, contributing nothing but excess NS to be sacrificed at the appropriate times

I have taken responsibility for my actions, I know exactly what I did, but unfortunately it isn't exactly what I am blamed for.

Series of betrayals? You will have to help me with the concept of series here, what exactly are you accusing me of now?

As for Crymson, mate you haven't released anything like the logs of that era, just what suited your cause. I screwed you, but your contribution was far greater than mine was.

As for PB coming to power, yes I agree with you. I did not expect MK to be the complete scum they have proved themselves to be once their moral compass left active service. I should have expected it, but I gave them far more( or less, as the case may be) credit than they obviously deserved.
[/quote]

Please stop, Grub. You're not helping anything.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Mergerberger II

[IYIyTh]

All that she wants, is another baby...
She's gone tomorrow but...all that she wants...is another baby.

a hey-ay.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1310286076' post='2753796']
Oh so TOP is not repentant about the whole pre-empt thing?!? that is a shame I had thought that was not the case. And pardon me for checking but which military planners actually confirmed that? (just curious).
[/quote]
They shouldn't be, it was the best option they had. And it was me.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1310336298' post='2754051']
They shouldn't be, it was the best option they had. And it was me.
[/quote]
Heh, I still did not like it but they did what they had to do I suppose, which is fair enough. I am sure he said war leaders as in plural but nevertheless thanks for notifying me that you agreed with their actions.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Cataduanes

[Haflinger]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310332418' post='2754028']
Series of betrayals? You will have to help me with the concept of series here, what exactly are you accusing me of now?
[/quote]
You encouraged TOP to attack MK, who were then your ally, thus betraying both MK and also everyone in that coalition with half a brain who knew that TOP attacking MK guaranteed that the coalition would lose the war.

Then you betrayed TOP in a remarkably obvious fashion by attacking them for declaring war in the manner that you encouraged.

Series of betrayals: you betrayed every direct ally of yours fighting on your side in the war by turning a [i]possible[/i] win into a guaranteed loss, and as well backstabbed your direct ally in MK by getting the #1 alliance to attack them, and then hung everyone out to dry by accepting a separate peace, abandoning every direct ally of Polaris on the field.

Frankly, what you did to TOP is relatively minor: at least you weren't allied to them. You really ought to be ashamed of what you did to your actual allies. It's amazing Polaris had any left at all after that war.

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1310334183' post='2754038']
Please stop, Grub. You're not helping anything.
[/quote]
You should come around more.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1310084059' post='2751788']
What will start the war on Polar where TOP gets its revenge?

1) VE style it and plant the CB.
2) Just up and declare and accuse Polar of being too damn good and needing to be smacked down because the world cannot again exist with a strong Polaris.

Zero-One, at least you are being honest and stating that Polar will be targeted again just so TOP can get its revenge. It's known, we just need the when. The why will be trumped up as necessary.
[/quote]NPO were rolled because they were too good?

That's a new one.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1310337117' post='2754059']
Heh, I still did not like it but they did what they had to do I suppose, which is fair enough. I am sure he said war leaders as in plural but nevertheless thanks for notifying me that you agreed with their actions.
[/quote]

Roquentin said the same as SC. There's your plural.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Crymson

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310340059' post='2754079']
You encouraged TOP to attack MK, who were then your ally, thus betraying both MK and also everyone in that coalition with half a brain who knew that TOP attacking MK guaranteed that the coalition would lose the war.

Then you betrayed TOP in a remarkably obvious fashion by attacking them for declaring war in the manner that you encouraged.

Series of betrayals: you betrayed every direct ally of yours fighting on your side in the war by turning a [i]possible[/i] win into a guaranteed loss, and as well backstabbed your direct ally in MK by getting the #1 alliance to attack them, and then hung everyone out to dry by accepting a separate peace, abandoning every direct ally of Polaris on the field.

Frankly, what you did to TOP is relatively minor: at least you weren't allied to them. You really ought to be ashamed of what you did to your actual allies. It's amazing Polaris had any left at all after that war.


You should come around more.
[/quote]

So many lies, distortions and complete fabrications all in one short paragraph. Facts are interesting things, they never ever change.

Here are some facts for you.

TOP decided who they wanted to attack, they were never encouraged in fact quite the opposite.
I never betrayed MK...ever. Quite the opposite.

I declared war on TOP at the request of an ally for a specific purpose and largely our involvement was contained to that purpose.

Lets be extremely clear about the facts. I attacked \m/, without any request for assistance, without any approval from any allies and without any expectation of assistance (quite the opposite). You and yours saw an opportunity to square some ledgers under a banner held by Polaris, you did so at you own behest and for your own reasons. Your reasons were not mine and not really related to mine.

TOP got screwed by me, but the rest of you are nothing to do with me and as such have no one to blame but yourselves. You involved yourself in something that didn't involve you, for your own reasons, and when you got caught in the middle of something else wanted someone to blame.

I left the so called coalition channels fairly early in the piece when I could see exactly what you people intended and I ceased to care about you shortly thereafter. My ego may well be large, but it could not compete in that company. Specific alliances were requested politely to perform as part of a coalition but it was clear that you had other plans, you ceased to be anything to do with me from there on in. Cruymson's own DoW made your declarations pretty damn clear to anyone who was interested enough to read them properly.

Maybe the facts and you should meet up some time for a quiet chat and get some commonsense back into the arguments.

I did somethings that I should not have done, I did somethings in a manner that left me open to criticism but you are simply gilding the lily if you want me to be responsible for your own &#$@ ups.

@ Mergerberger - You are a champion. Perhaps in some more appropriate venue I may well discuss it with you further.

Edited July 11, 2011 by AlmightyGrub

[Believland]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310347578' post='2754132']
TOP decided who they wanted to attack, they were never encouraged in fact quite the opposite.
I never betrayed MK...ever. Quite the opposite.
[/quote]


[22:48] <Crymson[TOP]> Do you acknowledge that you yourself, before our attacks on MK and GR, stated all of the following: your approval of our war plans against those alliances, your intention to not honor those treaties in this instance, and your agreement that our attack was part of the greater war against \m/ and their allies?
[22:49] <AlmightyGrub> correct

[Haflinger]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310347578' post='2754132']
TOP decided who they wanted to attack, they were never encouraged in fact quite the opposite.
[/quote]
Believland has already posted one log snippet, there are a great many more that are more damning. I don't know why you keep on trying to convince us of this: have you told the lie so many times that you have come to believe it yourself, perhaps?

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310347578' post='2754132']
I never betrayed MK...ever. Quite the opposite.
[/quote]
You betrayed MK the moment the #1 alliance approached you with war plans against them and you did not tell them that you would defend MK. (In fact you told them the exact opposite, that you would not defend MK. This is what we call encouraging.)

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310352689' post='2754166']
Believland has already posted one log snippet, there are a great many more that are more damning. I don't know why you keep on trying to convince us of this: have you told the lie so many times that you have come to believe it yourself, perhaps?


You betrayed MK the moment the #1 alliance approached you with war plans against them and you did not tell them that you would defend MK. (In fact you told them the exact opposite, that you would not defend MK. This is what we call encouraging.)
[/quote]

Whatever, you want to so desperately believe, so believe.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Haflinger is simply telling the truth.

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1310337117' post='2754059']
Heh, I still did not like it but they did what they had to do I suppose, which is fair enough. I am sure he said war leaders as in plural but nevertheless thanks for notifying me that you agreed with their actions.
[/quote]
If you'd like I can try and find some more. Once the war was over and their was no political reason to keep saying how bad the pre-emptive attack was people came out and said how it was really the best shot we had at winning.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310356579' post='2754195']
Haflinger is simply telling the truth.


If you'd like I can try and find some more. Once the war was over and their was no political reason to keep saying how bad the pre-emptive attack was people came out and said how it was really the best shot we had at winning.
[/quote]

Halfinger wouldnt know the truth if it bit him on the ass.

Pre-emptive strike was the best strategy if ''you'' were going to win the war, no question. You were not ever going to be allowed to win that war however. The distance between TOP and the rest of the world was growing too great, the opportunity to bring you back to the field and restore some balance could not be resisted by some. You have believed everything you wanted to about everything you wanted to.... to your detriment.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310345726' post='2754121']
Roquentin said the same as SC. There's your plural.
[/quote]
Cool, thanks.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310356579' post='2754195']
If you'd like I can try and find some more. Once the war was over and their was no political reason to keep saying how bad the pre-emptive attack was people came out and said how it was really the best shot we had at winning.
[/quote]
If you really want to then by all means do so, but it is not entirely necessary. I am sure there are plenty like me who still feel it was a !@#$ thing to do, but with the new order of things in place dissenting views such as mine are probably no longer important (I am not a leader of note afterall), but for me personally the distaste I feel for that Pre-empt (as well as the recent one) is not based on political considerations.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Cataduanes

[Believland]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310359701' post='2754228']
Halfinger wouldnt know the truth if it bit him on the ass.
[/quote]
I just quoted you in mid lie. Who are you trying to proof your action to?

[Groucho Marx]

Convince yourself you are right and you will convince everyone else you are right too~~

Edited July 11, 2011 by Emperor Marx

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1310267995' post='2753631']
He says he apologized to the people that matter which is good
[/quote]
I've always wondered who all these people are.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1310377260' post='2754332']
I've always wondered who all these people are.
[/quote]

It certainly wasn't IRON. IRON screwed Polaris over, I owed them nothing at the time. We had no relationship at all, just a very very burned bridge.

Alliances with whom I held a treaty and had an actual obligation and who didn't get immediate peace... short list really....got an apology

If you would like me to sincerely apologize to IRON, I am more than happy to.

I am sorry that my actions caused your alliance to suffer damages beyond what you perceived you would take. It was wrong of me and I am sorry. In retrospect I did not consider how many alliances were involved, mostly because I didn't have any idea at the time, and it was wrong to allow them into the crossfire without some notice of what they were rolling into.

[Krack]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310356579' post='2754195']
If you'd like I can try and find some more. Once the war was over and their was no political reason to keep saying how bad the pre-emptive attack was people came out and said how it was really the best shot we had at winning.
[/quote]

Revisionist history. Without that pre-emptive attack, SuperFriends and Harmlins never would have become involved on your front. TOP's name was (and is) "mud", but there were not nearly enough alliances looking for an excuse to go to war. You picked a fight and took a beating over it.

[trance addict]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310391618' post='2754377']
Revisionist history. Without that pre-emptive attack, SuperFriends and Harmlins never would have become involved on your front. TOP's name was (and is) "mud", but there were not nearly enough alliances looking for an excuse to go to war. You picked a fight and took a beating over it.
[/quote]


[IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk225/badboybill2007/imagesCA05NZL2.jpg[/IMG]


That's not very friendly of you now... is it?

[Krack]

[quote name='trance addict' timestamp='1310393743' post='2754380']
That's not very friendly of you now... is it?
[/quote]

I will have you know that I have won the [i]Best Smile on OWF[/i] award three years running.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310391618' post='2754377']
Revisionist history. Without that pre-emptive attack, SuperFriends and Harmlins never would have become involved on your front. TOP's name was (and is) "mud", but there were not nearly enough alliances looking for an excuse to go to war. You picked a fight and took a beating over it.
[/quote]
If we didn't go the route we went then the other choice was to do things the "normal" way which would have had IRON declare on a SuperFriend in support of NSO which would then bring us into the conflict against SuperFriends. Harmlin and CnG would have then gotten involved. The pre-emptive attack gave us a better chance of winning over the other option. This is what we believed at the time and its been reinforced by some of the people who was running the other side of the war. There is nothing "revisionist" about that.

If our name is "mud" in some random 1 man alliance then I'm okay with that.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[Krack]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310401745' post='2754422']
If we didn't go the route we went then the other choice was to do things the "normal" way which would have had IRON declare on a SuperFriend in support of NSO which would then bring us into the conflict against SuperFriends. Harmlin and CnG would have then gotten involved. The pre-emptive attack gave us a better chance of winning over the other option. This is what we believed at the time and its been reinforced by some of the people who was running the other side of the war. There is nothing "revisionist" about that.
[/quote]

... or, alternatively, you could have just acknowledged the war was started by Polar under a poor CB, not attacked anyone, stayed out of it, and remained the top ranked alliance. You know, like every other alliance that wasn't asking for trouble. But by all means, keep sticking to your new historical account. It's almost as cute as the dance (otherwise known as the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i]) you do every time you pretend TOP never threatened anyone through Gramlins during the Karma War ("Chill? Who's Chill? Never heard of him.").

[Believland]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310409427' post='2754473']
... or, alternatively, you could have just acknowledged the war was started by Polar under a poor CB, not attacked anyone, stayed out of it, and remained the top ranked alliance. You know, like every other alliance that wasn't asking for trouble. But by all means, keep sticking to your new historical account. It's almost as cute as the dance (otherwise known as the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i]) you do every time you pretend TOP never threatened anyone through Gramlins during the Karma War ("Chill? Who's Chill? Never heard of him.").
[/quote]
This is the part where you be quiet because you have no idea what you're talking about...