Feanor Noldorin Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) [quote]It's almost as cute as the dance (otherwise known as the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i]) you do every time you pretend TOP never threatened anyone through Gramlins during the Karma War ("Chill? Who's Chill? Never heard of him."). [/quote] Considering he's said everything he did was under his own accord and we didn't act through him I don't really understand what your getting at. Who's Chill? One of if not my favorite Gramlin from back during the Citadel. Also, "Feanor Two-Step?" Was that suppose to be funny? Edited July 11, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310409427' post='2754473'] ... or, alternatively, you could have just acknowledged the war was started by Polar under a poor CB, not attacked anyone, stayed out of it, and remained the top ranked alliance. You know, like every other alliance that wasn't asking for trouble. But by all means, keep sticking to your new historical account. It's almost as cute as the dance (otherwise known as the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i]) you do every time you pretend TOP never threatened anyone through Gramlins during the Karma War ("Chill? Who's Chill? Never heard of him."). [/quote] What did Chill do in Karma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310421970' post='2754554'] Also, "Feanor Two-Step?" Was that suppose to be funny? [/quote] Let me see your 1-2 step. I love it when you 1-2 step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310391618' post='2754377'] Revisionist history. Without that pre-emptive attack, SuperFriends and Harmlins never would have become involved on your front. TOP's name was (and is) "mud", but there were not nearly enough alliances looking for an excuse to go to war. You picked a fight and took a beating over it. [/quote] That's incorrect. Just ask those who were planning on the other side. The plan was to draw TOP and IRON in by attacking NSO (IRON's ally) with a disproportionately large number of alliances, then dump CnG on us. If you hadn't noticed, SF was already involved with that. Several of them were engaged with NSO. FARK was one of these, and they were ally of MHA. As Ramirus was one of the military planners on the other side, rest assured that the Gramlins and MHA would have become involved. This would have happened the moment that IRON attacked FARK. That IRON went in against CnG instead merely forced plans in a different direction. Fortunately for the other side, MHA was willing to do what Ramirus told them. For another interesting bit on the Gramlins, ask Sparta; Ramirus was trying to get them to preempt TOP. [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310409427' post='2754473'] ... or, alternatively, you could have just acknowledged the war was started by Polar under a poor CB, not attacked anyone, stayed out of it, and remained the top ranked alliance. You know, like every other alliance that wasn't asking for trouble. But by all means, keep sticking to your new historical account.[/quote] Ah, and leave IRON and all of IRON's other friends to burn. No thanks. [quote] It's almost as cute as the dance (otherwise known as the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i]) you do every time you pretend TOP never threatened anyone through Gramlins during the Karma War ("Chill? Who's Chill? Never heard of him."). [/quote] Does it really make you feel good, in any way whatsoever, to be aping Xiphosis? He has been making that accusation for years--amongst other equally nonsensical claims about TOP--without any evidence whatsoever. More, he refuses to tender any evidence whenever asked for it That said, I've never heard of the "Feanor Two-Step." It'd be an odd name, given that he wasn't even in government during Karma. I was. We never threatened anybody on IRON's behalf. Unfortunately, when given the choice between believing Xiphosis with no evidence or believing everybody who was directly involved, you've chosen to believe Xiphosis with no evidence. That ought to give everybody a pretty good appraisal of your powers of judgment. Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Believland' timestamp='1310421502' post='2754550'] This is the part where you be quiet because you have no idea what you're talking about... [/quote] Yeah, im gonna disagree with you on that. But by all means, educate us with your knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310439744' post='2754662'] Yeah, im gonna disagree with you on that. But by all means, educate us with your knowledge. [/quote] I already did. Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310428306' post='2754590'] That's incorrect. Just ask those who were planning on the other side. The plan was to draw TOP and IRON in by attacking NSO (IRON's ally) with a disproportionately large number of alliances, then dump CnG on us. If you hadn't noticed, SF was already involved with that. Several of them were engaged with NSO. FARK was one of these, and they were ally of MHA. As Ramirus was one of the military planners on the other side, rest assured that the Gramlins and MHA would have become involved. This would have happened the moment that IRON attacked FARK. That IRON went in against CnG instead merely forced plans in a different direction. Fortunately for the other side, MHA was willing to do what Ramirus told them. [/quote] Harmlins would have become involved if there was a direct attack on their treaty partner? Wow, that's one hell of a revelation! Still doesn't mean TOP was going to be attacked unprovoked. [quote]For another interesting bit on the Gramlins, ask Sparta; Ramirus was trying to get them to preempt TOP. [/quote] ... and had zero support. [quote] Ah, and leave IRON and all of IRON's other friends to burn. No thanks[/quote]. Yet, you chose to attack someone completely uninvolved instead of defending your treaty partners. Arguably the dumbest decision in the history of Cybernations. Congratulations (I'd put it at #2 behind Moo blowing you off at the start of Karma, but I digress ...). [quote] Does it really make you feel good, in any way whatsoever, to be aping Xiphosis? He has been making that accusation for years--amongst other equally nonsensical claims about TOP--without any evidence whatsoever. More, he refuses to tender any evidence whenever asked for it[/quote] Both you and I know that if TOP was innocent, we'd have seen long ago a series of logs between TOP and Gramlins' leadership to the effect of "Why the hell is everyone in Karma claiming we threatened them? They are all saying you're threatening them on our behalf? What did you say?" We have not seen those logs. And we have not seen those logs because those logs don't exist. And those logs don't exists because those conversations never took place. You can try and revise history all you want; the rest of us need not pretend your fictional account has merit. As for Xiph's opinion, I don't really care. I don't particularly like a lot of what he does or says, but at least he's honest. On the other hand, TOP's alliance leadership is like an Eddie Haskell impersonators club. What's hilarious is that you seem to think Xiph was running SuperFriends. [quote]That said, I've never heard of the "Feanor Two-Step." It'd be an odd name, given that he wasn't even in government during Karma. I was. We never threatened anybody on IRON's behalf. Unfortunately, when given the choice between believing Xiphosis with no evidence or believing everybody who was directly involved, you've chosen to believe Xiphosis with no evidence. That ought to give everybody a pretty good appraisal of your powers of judgment.[/quote] I asked TOP's leadership (yourself included) about the alliance's behavior in Karma once (in the spirit of getting along with the ally of an ally). You chose to flat out lie. The highlight was getting to see the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i] in action: Feanor plays as dumb as humanly possible, claims he has no idea why anyone blames TOP for anything - then he argues nothing ever happened - then when Chill's name get's brought up, there's more playing dumb and suggestions that there's never been any proof - then when confronted with logs of Chill's threats (that he's already seen hundreds of times before), he feigns surprise and slight anger - then Crymson pretends to join the conversation - says he had nothing to do with it, but says he's willing to take the blame for all of it (what a martyr!), but since he's no longer in alliance leadership, it shouldn't matter. Problem solved! With over two years of practice, it's borderline performance art. Edited July 12, 2011 by Krack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310441941' post='2754683'] Harmlins would have become involved if there was a direct attack on their treaty partner? Wow, that's one hell of a revelation! Still doesn't mean TOP was going to be attacked unprovoked. [/quote] TOP was never engaged with the Gramlins or MHA. [quote] ... and had zero support. [/quote] My point was that the Gramlins had every intention of becoming involved. [quote] Yet, you chose to attack someone completely uninvolved instead of defending your treaty partners. Arguably the dumbest decision in the history of Cybernations. Congratulations (I'd put it at #2 behind Moo blowing you off at the start of Karma, but I digress ...). [/quote] Go ask the military planners from the other side how dumb they thought that decision was. Several of them said after the fact that we'd correctly divined their strategy and that preempting CnG was perhaps our best chance for winning the war. [quote] Both you and I know that if TOP was innocent, we'd have seen long ago a series of logs between TOP and Gramlins' leadership to the effect of "Why the hell is everyone in Karma claiming we threatened them? They are all saying you're threatening them on our behalf? What did you say?" We have not seen those logs. And we have not seen those logs because those logs don't exist. And those logs don't exists because those conversations never took place. You can try and revise history all you want; the rest of us need not pretend your fictional account has merit. As for Xiph's opinion, I don't really care. I don't particularly like a lot of what he does or says, but at least he's honest. On the other hand, TOP's alliance leadership is like an Eddie Haskell impersonators club. What's hilarious is that you seem to think Xiph was running SuperFriends. [/quote] Both you and I know this, eh? News to me. I don't know that at all. What I do know is that we never threatened anyone to get peace for IRON. What I do know, too, is that you are making this claim based solely on "Xiphosis said so." You have no evidence. When making an accusation, the burden of proof is on the accuser. This is all besides the fact that we didn't even know about these accusations until some time after the war. The fact that you call Xiphosis, paranoid antagonist extraordinaire, an honest fellow is funny. [quote] I asked TOP's leadership (yourself included) about the alliance's behavior in Karma once (in the spirit of getting along with the ally of an ally). You chose to flat out lie. The highlight was getting to see the [i]Feanor Two-Step[/i] in action: Feanor plays as dumb as humanly possible, claims he has no idea why anyone blames TOP for anything, then he argues there's never been any proof, then when confronted with logs of Chill's threats (that he's already seen hundreds of times before), he feigns surprise and slight anger, then Crymson pretends to join the conversation, says he had nothing to do with it, but says he's willing to take the blame for all of it (what a martyr!), but since he's no longer in alliance leadership, it shouldn't matter. Problem solved! With over two years of practice, it's borderline performance art. [/quote] Wow. You're off your rocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310442284' post='2754691'] Wow. You're off your rocker. [/quote] The best part was when, as you (and others in TOP, like Feanor) were busy bald face lying, even your allies (people who genuinely like you and your alliance and stick up for you in public) were sending me PMs on IRC saying (paraphrasing) "He's a good guy, but he's so full of BS. If they'd just admit what they did and actually feel bad about it; they'd save themselves so much grief. It's both funny and sad." [quote] Go ask the military planners from the other side how dumb they thought that decision was. Several of them said after the fact that we'd correctly divined their strategy and that preempting CnG was perhaps our best chance for winning the war. [/quote] Trust me, the unanimous opinion within SFs military circles was you made an epic screw-up. "Several" thought you made a great move? Doesn't say much for their acumen regarding the political realities of the day. Edited July 12, 2011 by Krack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310443099' post='2754702'] The best part was when, as you (and others in TOP, like Feanor) were busy bald face lying, even your allies (people who genuinely like you and your alliance and stick up for you in public) were sending me PMs on IRC saying (paraphrasing) "He's a good guy, but he's so full of BS. If they'd just admit what they did and actually feel bad about it; they'd save themselves so much grief. It's both funny and sad." [/quote] Again the accusations of lying, without any proof whatsoever. As for our allies saying such things, I'm curious to see the specific things they said. Let's see some logs! Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310441941' post='2754683'] then when confronted with logs of Chill's threats (that he's already seen hundreds of times before) [/quote] Chill and every other member of Gramlins leadership have already said we never asked them to threaten any member of Superfriends on our behalf. Are you to stupid to understand this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310443478' post='2754708'] Chill and every other member of Gramlins leadership have already said we never asked them to threaten any member of Superfriends on our behalf. Are you to stupid to understand this? [/quote] You mean all those guys that jumped ship from Gramlins to TOP right after? Nobody believes you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310443241' post='2754704'] As for our allies saying such things, I'm curious to see the specific things they said. Let's see some logs! [/quote] Hold your breath and I'll go get them for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310443907' post='2754710'] You mean all those guys that jumped ship from Gramlins to TOP right after? Nobody believes you. [/quote] Chill never joined TOP and neither did Bob Janova. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310443994' post='2754712'] Chill never joined TOP and neither did Bob Janova. Try again. [/quote] Chill quit Planet Bob and Bob Janova became TOP's personal spokeman/apologist. In fact, nobody's reputation has sunk as far and as fast as Bob Janova's has since Karma. He's become a punchline. Edited July 12, 2011 by Krack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310443478' post='2754708'] Chill and every other member of Gramlins leadership have already said we never asked them to threaten any member of Superfriends on our behalf. Are you to stupid to understand this? [/quote] [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310443907' post='2754710'] You mean all those guys that jumped ship from Gramlins to TOP right after? Nobody believes you. [/quote] That would be a yes, Feanor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310444223' post='2754718'] Chill quit Planet Bob and Bob Janova became TOP's personal spokeman/apologist. In fact, nobody's reputation has sunk as far and as fast as Bob Janova's has since Karma. He's become a punchline. [/quote] So you have absolute no proof to back up what your saying, however, when all three members of the Gramlins Triumvirate/Council have said that your accusations are wrong you completely dismiss it? It seems the way your going with your previous replies that your answer will be "yes." If that's the case, which I think it is, I'm done here. You just can't reason with stupid. Edited July 12, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1310444855' post='2754740'] So you have absolute no proof to back up what your saying, however, when all three members of the Gramlins Triumvirate/Council have said that your accusations are wrong you completely dismiss it? [/quote] Hold on, so I'm supposed to believe Chill (who you're claiming lied about TOP's intentions in the first place and then was forced out of Cybernations completely)? And Bob Janova who hasn't said a single thing anyone believes for approximately the last 18-24 months? I don't even remember who the third member was (LM?), but since you're asking for my opinion, the Gramlins leadership at the start of the Karma War was completely undependable. They went from giving their word in December to hemming and hawing while they read the tea leaves as the rest of us sweated it out. So, to answer your question, yes I completely dismiss it. I lost respect for their leadership (and apparently their general alliance membership did too) during that war. [b]EDIT:[/b] [quote]It seems the way your going with your previous replies that your answer will be "yes." If that's the case, which I think it is, I'm done here. You just can't reason with stupid. [/quote] You're breaking my heart. How will I go on? Sorry your [i]Revised History: The Karma and BiPolar Wars[/i] planning session went poorly. Edited July 12, 2011 by Krack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) We're still waiting on those logs! Not that they'll make you seem any more credible, of course... [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310445775' post='2754751'] Hold on, so I'm supposed to believe Chill (who you're claiming lied about TOP's intentions in the first place and then was forced out of Cybernations completely)? And Bob Janova who hasn't said a single thing anyone believes for approximately the last 18-24 months? I don't even remember who the third member was (LM?), but since you're asking for my opinion, the Gramlins leadership at the start of the Karma War was completely undependable. They went from giving their word in December to hemming and hawing while they read the tea leaves as the rest of us sweated it out. So, to answer your question, yes I completely dismiss it. I lost respect for their leadership (and apparently their general alliance membership did too) during that war. [/quote] So essentially what you're saying is, "I'm only going to give credibility to those who believed what I believe about the situation!" Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310445859' post='2754752'] We're still waiting on those logs! Not that they'll make you seem any more credible, of course... [/quote] I've never seen someone speaking while holding their breath before. Ask around, you don't have that many alliances that like you; shouldn't be that hard to figure out. [quote]So essentially what you're saying is, "I'm only going to give credibility to those who believed what I believe about the situation!"[/quote] Hold on ... is Chill the reliable paragon of virtue and honesty? Or is he a liar who made up a bunch of BS about TOP threatening it's Karma War allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310446188' post='2754754'] I've never seen someone speaking while holding their breath before. Ask around, you don't have that many alliances that like you; shouldn't be that hard to figure out. [/quote] So you don't have any, in other words. Like I said, the logs wouldn't lend any credibility to your claims. I was simply curious if you could back up your words. Apparently you can't. [quote] Hold on ... is Chill the reliable paragon of virtue and honesty? Or is he a liar who made up a bunch of BS about TOP threatening it's Karma War allies? [/quote] I like how you're ignoring that the originator of the accusation in question is considered by much of CN to be a total wackjob. Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310447291' post='2754762'] So you don't have any, in other words. Like I said, the logs wouldn't lend any credibility to your claims. I was simply curious if you could back up your words. Apparently you can't. [/quote] Yeah, sorry ... I'm not outing your allies that mock you behind your back. I thought I had made that clear in my prior posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I came in here for some charming TOP-NpO feudin' and fightin', and instead there's some !@#$% micro guy spraying HoTesque everywhere. Not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310448247' post='2754776'] Yeah, sorry ... I'm not outing your allies that mock you behind your back. I thought I had made that clear in my prior posts. [/quote] Making claims without corroborating evidence seems to be a routine thing for you. Edited July 12, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1310391618' post='2754377'] Without that pre-emptive attack, SuperFriends and Harmlins never would have become involved on your front. [/quote] Actually, MHA mentioned attack on FARK would lead to there involvement. That didnt happen. The notion that SF would never have gotten involved on the front is simply absurd. SF was already involved to pull us in piling up on NSO and Ramlins got involved without any chains and perhaps managed to convince MHA to join in on the trip. Since CnG was going to be on top of us anyway after we'd gone via the treaty route, we thought we'd skip a step or two and improve the chances for our side which was everyone including Polar and our common allies and there allies who chose to support the side. [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1310382777' post='2754346'] It certainly wasn't IRON. IRON screwed Polaris over, I owed them nothing at the time. We had no relationship at all, just a very very burned bridge.[/quote] Thought we were past the very very burned bridge after months of diplomacy and building up of rapport before anyone knew what the next war will be like. But mistake is a mistake, and misreading Polar was clearly one. That is tho, not your mistake. Edited July 12, 2011 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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