Greatest Alliance Rivalries

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1305877731' post='2715439']
You realize Hearts of Iron is a World War II grand strategy game, right?
[/quote]

I've never played it but that only proves my point.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

I'm not sure if I follow your logic.

The Order of the Paradox comes from Paradox Interactive, a company that makes grand strategy games including Hearts of Iron. TOP and MK, two major powers who were former enemies decide to sign a treaty. TOP members, with a history of playing Paradox Interactive games, bring up that it is like the Unholy Alliance between Germany and USSR (not the RL version which was a NAP, but the in game version where the USSR joins the Axis). So we name our treaty the Unholy Alliance and use some images from the game in our announcement. Therefore, we signed our treaty due to Polar?????

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1305878718' post='2715444']
I'm not sure if I follow your logic.

The Order of the Paradox comes from Paradox Interactive, a company that makes grand strategy games including Hearts of Iron. TOP and MK, two major powers who were former enemies decide to sign a treaty. TOP members, with a history of playing Paradox Interactive games, bring up that it is like the Unholy Alliance between Germany and USSR (not the RL version which was a NAP, but the in game version where the USSR joins the Axis). So we name our treaty the Unholy Alliance and use some images from the game in our announcement. Therefore, we signed our treaty due to Polar?????
[/quote]

Yes. That is correct.

[Letum]

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1305878718' post='2715444']
I'm not sure if I follow your logic.

The Order of the Paradox comes from Paradox Interactive, a company that makes grand strategy games including Hearts of Iron. TOP and MK, two major powers who were former enemies decide to sign a treaty. TOP members, with a history of playing Paradox Interactive games, bring up that it is like the Unholy Alliance between Germany and USSR (not the RL version which was a NAP, but the in game version where the USSR joins the Axis). So we name our treaty the Unholy Alliance and use some images from the game in our announcement. Therefore, we signed our treaty due to Polar?????
[/quote]

Well, the USSR and Germany were planning to double team [b]Pol[/b]and, which shares the same first three letters with [b]Pol[/b]ar, so it must be true. Also, the USSR was planning on invading Finland, and Germany Norway, and between them they would dominate Scandinavia, which close to the North [b]Pole[/b]. And if that isn't evidence enough, the only contender for such an alliance would be the USA, which as we all know, has Area 51 - where they keep the three alien spacecraft they found in the [b]Polar[/b] regions. The evidence is infallible, and the logic absolute. If you keep on denying it, you are clearly intentionally trying to orchestrate a cover up.

[Dom Zak]

[quote]I could write volumes about the rivalry between Polar and TOP. But let me try and summarize it here: TOP and NpO hate each other more than anyone else in the world. I don't know that this rivalry has driven alliance politics as much as some others have, but nowhere in the world will you find more mutual hatred between two alliances than NpO/TOP. Even in this thread, members talk about how much they hate each other, and members from both sides bash one another. Rarely does a thread go by without one throwing an insult at the other. Born of this rivalry was the second half of the Bipolar War. I will tell you, there are no other rivalries in the game which even come close to the amount of hatred these alliances have for each other. [/quote]

Can you blame TOP? Nope.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Draztikus' timestamp='1305873323' post='2715411']
[color="#0000FF"][size="5"]Bring it.[/size][/color]
[/quote]
[color="#FF8C00"][size="5"]Grow.[/size][/color]

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1305887651' post='2715467']
Well, the USSR and Germany were planning to double team [b]Pol[/b]and, which shares the same first three letters with [b]Pol[/b]ar, so it must be true. Also, the USSR was planning on invading [u]Finland, and Germany Norway, and between them they would dominate Scandinavia[/u], which close to the North [b]Pole[/b]. And if that isn't evidence enough, the only contender for such an alliance would be the USA, which as we all know, has Area 51 - where they keep the three alien spacecraft they found in the [b]Polar[/b] regions. The evidence is infallible, and the logic absolute. If you keep on denying it, you are clearly intentionally trying to orchestrate a cover up.
[/quote]

Finnish Cooperation Organization and Nordreich better watch out then.

[Bodvar Jarl]

The treaty with MK would have been signed just as readily had Polaris not existed, ignoring the fact that the circumstances would have drastically changed in such a case. Though the Poland thing was good fun anyhow

[Krzyzewskiville]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1305862110' post='2715316']
Then they will want fire and blood. Then you will want fire and blood. Then they will want fire and blood again. Then you will want fire and blood again. You attacking Polaris out of the blue will solve nothing.
[/quote]

Y'know, I pretty much agree with this, at least on an OOC level. Of course, I don't have nearly the level of hate for Polar that some of our members who were here for Bipolar do. Had I been here for Grub's backstabbing, I probably would hate your alliance far more. See... I was in the government a few months before, and every attempt from both sides to reconcile seemed sincere. Was I surprised that Crymson's plan to get NpO to backstab an ally failed? Nope. Not in the least. But I am surprised to hear Polar members telling me that they were basically pulling the long con on us. Because that is complete and utter crap. There was no long con, there was Grub finding himself in an opportunistic situation and taking advantage of it.

Again, on an OOC level, I generally find that letting your actions in a game be dictated by revenge and anger is stupid. And so I play that way. I couldn't care less about Polar. Because people and alliances who act like Polar has tend to burn on their own accord. We don't need to roll you guys for you to get rolled. Every alliance eventually loses a war due to their own hubris. We certainly have.[/OOC]

Edited May 20, 2011 by SeasonsOfLove

[Daimos]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1305855065' post='2715237']

[b]NPO-NpO:[/b] People underrate this one I think. There was a time when NPO was the most hated alliance in Polaris. We had just signed a MDoAP with MK and we just found out Pacifica had a spy inside Polaris. We were as close to war as you get. Would've been interesting.

[/quote]

I think this is just Polaris point of view. It is hard to hate an alliance that came from Pacifica’s womb.

[Draztikus]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1305888073' post='2715469']
[color="#FF8C00"][size="5"]Grow.[/size][/color]
[/quote]
[quote name='Draztikus' timestamp='1305656805' post='2713727']you want me in range, either start sending me tech or start selling off infra[/quote]

[Krzyzewskiville]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1305894466' post='2715488']
I think this is just Polaris point of view. It is hard to hate an alliance that came from Pacifica’s womb.
[/quote]

You have no idea how wrong you are. There was a time, right before the WotC, that Polar surpassed MK as the #1 enemy within NPO. The IOs and some members were involved in a covert campaign to spread the truth of Polar's NPO-undermining actions, and 2 members of that campaign betrayed the IO's plan to Sponge. It was pretty nasty around that time. The two alliances had only Moo and Sponge talking to each other, which was horrible, because they hated each other after Sponge tried to overthrow Moo. It was bad. It's lessened a lot since Karma, though.

[Banksy]

It's true, we base our entire FA strategy on 1) a rare scenario found in a Swedish war strategy game and 2) the letters A, L, O and P.

[Daimos]

[quote name='SeasonsOfLove' timestamp='1305895037' post='2715491']
You have no idea how wrong you are. There was a time, right before the WotC, that Polar surpassed MK as the #1 enemy within NPO. The IOs and some members were involved in a covert campaign to spread the truth of Polar's NPO-undermining actions, and 2 members of that campaign betrayed the IO's plan to Sponge. It was pretty nasty around that time. The two alliances had only Moo and Sponge talking to each other, which was horrible, because they hated each other after Sponge tried to overthrow Moo. It was bad. It's lessened a lot since Karma, though.
[/quote]


I have no opinion on what happen in the past but since I joined back in 09’ I never got the sense from my comrades or leadership any ill will towards Polaris.

[Letum]

[quote name='SeasonsOfLove' timestamp='1305895037' post='2715491']
You have no idea how wrong you are. There was a time, right before the WotC, that Polar surpassed MK as the #1 enemy within NPO. The IOs and some members were involved in a covert campaign to spread the truth of Polar's NPO-undermining actions, and 2 members of that campaign betrayed the IO's plan to Sponge. It was pretty nasty around that time. The two alliances had only Moo and Sponge talking to each other, which was horrible, because they hated each other after Sponge tried to overthrow Moo. It was bad. It's lessened a lot since Karma, though.
[/quote]

It's a bit more complicated than that, actually. There was a massive contrast between the enmity amongst the two leadership groups, and the very friendly feelings between the member bodies. That covert campaign was mainly aimed to make sure that there wouldn't be an internal revolt whenever Polaris was "cut off" - and it is a testament to the strength of that bond that even with it, there was still a hell of a storm raised. Because of that level of feeling from the membership, it's a bit inaccurate to term Polaris as ever having been the #1 enemy within NPO, yet at the same time it is impossible to deny the sheer hatred that existed between the individuals in charge.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Dom Zak' timestamp='1305887938' post='2715468']
Can you blame TOP? Nope.
[/quote]

On the contrary, yes, yes you can. You can blame both of us for the rivalry. Because it is the fault of both of us. I made a post explaining exactly this point right [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=101866&view=findpost&p=2715286]here.[/url]

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1305861358' post='2715311']
It's not much of an excuse, it's the gravity of the wrong-doing involved. I've been willing to say it was wrong. I'm not really making excuses other than stating the fact that being a peripheral alliance involved in the GPA war isn't the same as having started it. I've never said it was right and I've always been willing to say that it was wrong for Umbrella to declare on GPA and running the alliance in a far different way has always been a priority for me. That's never been an issue for me. The reason I talk about it being done under a far different government is to illustrate that there was a change in decision-making policysince then because I've been consistently critical of the alliance's involvement in that war. I've never said it didn't happen. It happened and it was someone else's call, so I don't particularly like people using it as some sort of "ace in the hole" against me when I've always been against it and wouldn't have done the same thing.
[/quote]

Then I apologize for misunderstanding what you were saying. This is by far the best explanation (most likely due to it being in a single post) that you have given of your position on the GPA war. Thank you for clarifying.


[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1305873010' post='2715410']
That's why we will disband them. You think we are going to let Polar off lightly? If they by some chance survive to receive peace terms they will be the harshest this world has ever seen. We will have no mercy.
[/quote]

As much as I like TOP, ya'll won't ever disband Polaris. If you even attempt to do so, you will face former Polars like me rejoining their ranks. Yes, I may not be much as a single person but there are dozens of former Polars out there as well as members of other alliances who know and love Polaris. If you give harsh terms, Polaris will survive and will rise back up.

The aftermath for Polaris would be a greatly weakened Polaris but it will not be the first time Polaris was in that position and it most likely will not be the last. The aftermath for TOP would most likely be much worse regardless of your stats. Given the current political climate, any attempt to disband or even hand down the harshest terms the world has ever seen (and given the terms given to NPO that is saying something) ya'll will only turn TOP into the pariah regardless of the reasons for them.


My personal opinion (which will most likely be ignored) is that wait for Polaris to rebuild, then TOP/IRON/TORN/DAWN/et al (can't remember all who was involved in that coalition, I apologize) and Polaris duke it out for a month or 2 and end the war with white peace. Settle the score on the battlefield and after that, be neutral towards one another. Ya'll don't have to become best friends afterwards or hell even friends for that matter. More than likely Polaris will get destroyed yet again but maybe a month or two of war will satiate the bloodthirst from ya'lls side.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1305897045' post='2715505']
It's a bit more complicated than that, actually. There was a massive contrast between the enmity amongst the two leadership groups, and the very friendly feelings between the member bodies. That covert campaign was mainly aimed to make sure that there wouldn't be an internal revolt whenever Polaris was "cut off" - and it is a testament to the strength of that bond that even with it, there was still a hell of a storm raised. Because of that level of feeling from the membership, it's a bit inaccurate to term Polaris as ever having been the #1 enemy within NPO, yet at the same time it is impossible to deny the sheer hatred that existed between the individuals in charge.
[/quote]

Essentially from what I know and have heard, this is quite accurate. Though I would say for NPO Gov, Polaris rated #1 mostly due to ES's involvement in the couping of Moo. The membership of both alliance still held much love for one another during this time. Though there was no real attempt at truly demonizing Pacifica by Polar gov towards the Polar BR, the Polar BR did hear essentially all that was going on.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1305894466' post='2715488']
I think this is just Polaris point of view. It is hard to hate an alliance that came from Pacifica’s womb.
[/quote]

I don't think you really understand the meaning of rivalry. Rivalry can even exist between allies.

[Daimos]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1305908685' post='2715563']
I don't think you really understand the meaning of rivalry. Rivalry can even exist between allies.
[/quote]

I do, I just do not see one against Polaris.

[Hyperion321]

Well, I think this thread proved TOP and NpO aren't rivals...their arch nemeses.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1305856821' post='2715267']
NSO vs A Good Public Image

Alterego vs Making Sense

Purple vs Pink (in terms of lol-est sphere)

Xiph's Ego vs MK's Ego vs HoT's Ego

Lizkala vs Lizana
[/quote]

What about Lizosis?

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Draztikus' timestamp='1305894553' post='2715489']
you want me in range, either start sending me tech or start selling off infra
[/quote]
Not smart enough to grow your nation by yourself?

Also, lol at the people who take people seriously when they say they want to disband someone. Honestly.

[D34th]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1305912866' post='2715588']
Not smart enough to grow your nation by yourself?

Also, lol at the people who take people seriously when they say they want to disband someone. Honestly.
[/quote]

WE IS NOOBS!1!1!

Please send tech and nation building guides to us.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1305913317' post='2715595']
WE IS NOOBS!1!1!

Please send tech and nation building guides to us.
[/quote]
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[lazaraus45]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1305845486' post='2715168']
Man, if I had a nickle for every time the Emperor of an allied alliance spread lies about us to his own membership in order to save face at our expense...

Well, actually I'd have five cents. And you'd owe them to me.
[/quote]

seeing you showing your crush on Taut is adorable, but a little off topic, no?

Also going off this thread, i think NpO-TOP will be a very long rivalry to come