An Imperial Announcement from the New Pacific Order

[OrangeAvenger]

So when is somebody from FAN going to check in so we can all stop going in circles with the blame n` flame?

[Jasmines Jewels]

Roughly two months ago the Polar war began and many keep saying that we had this huge intent on joining in through treaty chains because [b][i]they[/i][/b] feel it was our "best shot". Well, [i]they[/i] are extremely wrong. We were to defend our allies if asked, and we were never asked. The war was not our business and it was being treated as such until it was made our business.

We were walking down the street, keeping to ourselves, and were jumped for not changing how others feel we should have changed or what we should have done. It is understood that most long time players will spout the irony of it all, but right now we are who we are. Have our attempts at making peace with some alliances been good or perfect? Nope. This doesn't mean that we have not shown effort. We're sorting through old paperwork and tackling each issue as we can. Our FA department has went out and been met with severe hostility for a while now, but they persist. We have not denied conversation to anyone that would like to actually discuss grievances with our alliance. I personally encourage it as it helps us understand a bit more where others are coming from.

This is where we are with FAN right now. We are talking (and a lot better than the farce that happened a bit over a year ago). If other alliances or players would like to discuss things, we are very open to actual conversation.

Edit: Tags :|

Edited March 13, 2011 by Jasmines Jewels

[neneko]

I find it a bit amusing how npo members paint this up to be the single biggest contribution to humanity anyone has ever made.

Don't get me wrong it's a nice gesture, genuine or not, but what kind of reception did you expect in the middle of war? It's an apology, not the cure for cancer. Some people will be skeptical to the sincerity due to the pacifican history and peculiar timing, some will think it's a nice gesture. The fact that we're in the middle of a war means that there will probably be more people expressing the former opinion but did you honestly expect anything else?

It's an apology no more, no less.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1299990457' post='2662363']
Remind me what we did to them?
[/quote]

Nothing. Nothing at all.

(I was actually referring to their predecessor. )

Edited March 13, 2011 by SirWilliam

[nippy]

[quote name='Brenann' timestamp='1300032943' post='2662988']
NPO can donate millions to a charity, spread goodwill and help the downtrodden, give candy to babies and we will still be painted as the evil monsters. So be it.
[/quote]

[quote name='Brenann' timestamp='1300032943' post='2662988']
We did not do this for you (the peanut gallery). If FAN wants to call BS and tell us to take our apology and to stuff it then so be it. We did not do this because we were asked to, we did it because it is the right thing to do. Everyone can take it how they will and will run off at the mouth as though they spout gospel but it wont change the fact that we recognize that FAN is the ONLY alliance who we currently face that actually means something to us. Everyone understands the others are just children throwing a temper tantrum.
[/quote]

I find this post funnier if it's separated into two quotes....one post whining about NPO being poor, downtrodden victims of bullies, and one post demonstrating to a "T" exactly the kind of brash, disrespectful, arrogant and unprofessional posting style adopted by typical NPO members. It's like you're completely oblivious to yourselves.

[Antonio Salovega VI]

For those Pacificans who feign a lack of understanding as to why Planet Bob does not take their words at face value, it is as simple as one ... two ... three.

1. NPO's so called apology was not presented by the exalted Clown Prince Chuckles nor even by the Fantabulous Clown Princess Mary. Each of them was given an almost-but-not-quite plausible excuse for their absense. This appears to be a set up for a typical NPO denial down the road to the effect that because it lacked their official stamp of approval, it did not not happen.

2. The apology is offered during a time of war, when NPO is getting its collected rear-end kicked around the proverbial block and one of the prime kickers is the apologee.

3. NPO is famous for smiling ever so sweetly while it carefully plans to shove a shiv into its next intended victim.

TL;DR: Can you say "ploy"?

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300035454' post='2663021']
For those Pacificans who feign a lack of understanding as to why Planet Bob does not take their words at face value, it is as simple as one ... two ... three.

1. NPO's so called apology was not presented by the exalted Clown Prince Chuckles nor even by the Fantabulous Clown Princess Mary. Each of them was given an almost-but-not-quite plausible excuse for their absense. This appears to be a set up for a typical NPO denial down the road to the effect that because it lacked their official stamp of approval, it did not not happen.

2. The apology is offered during a time of war, when NPO is getting its collected rear-end kicked around the proverbial block and one of the prime kickers is the apologee.

3. NPO is famous for smiling ever so sweetly while it carefully plans to shove a shiv into its next intended victim.

TL;DR: Can you say "ploy"?
[/quote]


Well, one thing is certain, NPO can't win. If they don't apologize they are called out for it. If they apologized before the war, it would have been called a cheap effort to avoid the beatdown. If they apologized after the war (Karma or this one) then it would have been called forced and not true.

Seems the out come to the peanut gallery is the same. The problem is, FAN's opinion is the one that matters. No matter what, this was needed for them (NPO and FAN) to move forward. Whether that forward is to friendship or hostility is for them to determine.

One thing is for certain, NPO knew this would happen when they posted it. For that, much respect.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1299995906' post='2662512']
-pretty much all of us because we could have been next???
[/quote]
The irony in this statement is so thick I could cut it.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1299999316' post='2662608']
Thanks to Red for editng:

Perhaps you don't remember but at that time Polar was led by Sponge; we were having our own problems with him then. There is nothing we could have done to change his mind about any thing; we certianly could not "reign" him in.
[/quote]
Well I won't claim to know the intricacies of NpO/NPO relations but it still feels to me like something more could have been done.

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300000977' post='2662641']
As you drag your mindless war of aggression out longer, we shall see if it holds true for you in the long run.
[/quote]
It is not us who are dragging the war out.

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300002870' post='2662691']
So, evil when we stick our noses into another alliance's affairs and still evil when we don't? Take it up with polar, actually why not take it up with VE? They were involved in the war that led to the disbandment of GOONS too as I am sure you remember. Or do past grudges only apply to NPO?
[/quote]
VE wasn't in a position to stop the disbandment, nor were they a treaty partner of GOONS at the time.

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1300020001' post='2662848']
And an apology at gunpoint, possibly as a part of a peace agreement would have been more sincere?
I am a firm believer in second chances and those start with acknowledging wrongs committed in the past.

It doesn't matter if you believe that this is a mere PR stunt or a sincere apology, what matters is that this apology is public.
Your reaction shows insincerity because you believe that this could possibly remove one of the alliances which keep GOONS alive through their military support and aid chains.

As for me, i am going to watch this development closely to see how it develops.
[/quote]
You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm merely commenting on the effectiveness of this apology based on its timing, not analyzing its veracity. nor do I fear for a picosecond that this would melt FAN's heart and have them leave the war. It is also my hope that forced apologizes become a thing of the past, also, because they are by definition, never sincere.

[Dan2680]

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300035454' post='2663021']
For those Pacificans who feign a lack of understanding as to why Planet Bob does not take their words at face value, it is as simple as one ... two ... three.

1. NPO's so called apology was not presented by the exalted Clown Prince Chuckles nor even by the Fantabulous Clown Princess Mary. Each of them was given an almost-but-not-quite plausible excuse for their absense. This appears to be a set up for a typical NPO denial down the road to the effect that because it lacked their official stamp of approval, it did not not happen.

2. The apology is offered during a time of war, when NPO is getting its collected rear-end kicked around the proverbial block and one of the prime kickers is the apologee.

3. NPO is famous for smiling ever so sweetly while it carefully plans to shove a shiv into its next intended victim.

TL;DR: Can you say "ploy"?
[/quote]

Do I sense a touch of paranoia?

[Penkala]

[quote]Well, one thing is certain, NPO can't win. If they don't apologize they are called out for it. If they apologized before the war, it would have been called a cheap effort to avoid the beatdown. If they apologized after the war (Karma or this one) then it would have been called forced and not true.

Seems the out come to the peanut gallery is the same. The problem is, FAN's opinion is the one that matters. No matter what, this was needed for them (NPO and FAN) to move forward. Whether that forward is to friendship or hostility is for them to determine.

One thing is for certain, NPO knew this would happen when they posted it. For that, much respect. [/quote]

Apologize some time in the 2 years before you get rolled again.

Problem solved.

[Andre27]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1300029954' post='2662950']
Were the actions perpetrated by NPO to have taken place in a more physical realm, NPO would most assuredly have been guilty of war crimes and subject to trial and execution of its leadership, and forced change of regime for its people. The old symbols would be outlawed and their display would be counted a hate crime. Those of us who peer through the dimensional portals may know something of this. And yet, here an alliance may reinvent themselves and walk a new path. If we deny this, we condemn ourselves to repeat the history of this place over and over, and we prescribe that we actors shall eternally perform the same play over and over and over again until the actors have grown weary of their lines and the audience has fled the theater of boredom. Whose "crime" is worse?


Let go.
[/quote]

Congratulations on pulling a "Godwin" on the subject. End of topic.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299992889' post='2662435']
You'd think a guy with your AA history would be bigger.
[/quote]
Oh you. Resorting to ad hominem attacks already? You've lost your touch Schatt.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299994312' post='2662471']
I can't wait to hear the NPO admit that one of their agents was the GPA leader who orchestrated the phony 'incidents' that led up to that war.
[/quote]
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

[Thrash]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300035260' post='2663018']
and one post demonstrating to a "T" exactly the kind of [b]brash, disrespectful, arrogant[/b] and unprofessional posting style adopted by typical NPO members. It's like you're completely oblivious to yourselves.
[/quote]

Ironic much?

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300017114' post='2662829']
you [Doitzel] are as guilty as them.
[/quote]

Oh, you have got to be [i]joking[/i].

[Ryan Greenberg]

Maybe all of the trolls should shut up and wait for a FAN response? Your opinion means nothing. This goes to all except NPO and FAN

Edited March 13, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[Ardus]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300039825' post='2663090']
Maybe all of the trolls should shut up and wait for a FAN response? Your opinion means nothing. This goes to all except NPO and FAN
[/quote]
The argument "you have nothing to do with this" has been attempted in every thread since forever. Not once has it succeeded.

Perhaps it's time to come up with a new angle?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Kilkenny' timestamp='1300035868' post='2663027']
Well, one thing is certain, NPO can't win. If they don't apologize they are called out for it. If they apologized before the war, it would have been called a cheap effort to avoid the beatdown. If they apologized after the war (Karma or this one) then it would have been called forced and not true.
[/quote]

Though it would never have convinced everyone, the results would likely have been much better had the NPO given this apology while [b]not[/b] under duress. They had a long period between the end of their terms and the start of this war-at-large, yet they didn't find it in either their hearts or their agenda to issue this apology then. Why not?

Do you see, then, why many may imply that this apology has disingenuous roots?

Though I'd like to hear answers to the "Why not?" I've got to assume--based on the timing and on the evidence--that it's because they never found it [b]necessary[/b], and so this "apology" smacks to me of origins in being sorry for the consequences of one's actions rather than for the actions themselves. Is such an apology indicative of change? No.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Crymson

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300036610' post='2663034']
The irony in this statement is so thick I could cut it.
[/quote]
Go ahead then?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1300040913' post='2663110']
Go ahead then?
[/quote]
He has no knives.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300037823' post='2663060']
Oh you. Resorting to ad hominem attacks already? You've lost your touch Schatt.
[/quote]
If you think my belief that a person that got a taste of beatdowns in two alliances would have an idea of the waste and uselessness is an ad hominem you can go back to Latin class.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300036771' post='2663036']
VE wasn't in a position to stop the disbandment, nor were they a treaty partner of GOONS at the time.
[/quote]
Get over it Sardonic. Why would NPO have thrown itself under the bus to save a democractic alliance whose general membership were constantly talking about attacking NPO? Negligence&Sadism≠Neutral Shoving but here you are griefing. Alliances act in their own best interests, GOONS Was no longer an asset to NPO due to GOONS own behavior and actions.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Schattenmann

[nippy]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1300039138' post='2663080']
Ironic much?
[/quote]

Oh, we're quite aware why we're hated. We don't !@#$%* about it...that's the difference.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1300003189' post='2662696']
And people wonder why we hesitated to mend bridges after Karma.

Good show NPO, I did not expect this!
[/quote]
After Karma would've been the perfect time. Are you insane? "Okay, we realize the error of our ways. Going forward we're going to patch things up." You could've made friends and influenced people. The war going on right now wouldn't've happened, since the reason for the attack is you never attempted to reach out and show you changed.

Apologizing after two years because you want to stop being attacked? No. Not buying it. Insanely transparent and insincere.

[WarLaw]

This is between NPO and Fan. This apology is meant solely for Fan. Others who pass by who are not in Fan can read it and take it for what it's worth. If you are not in Fan and you really think your opinion should be heard on this part, then please let us know, we would like to hear it, but do so in a respectful and intellectual manner, preferably some where else than this thread.

Edited March 13, 2011 by WarLaw

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Panic King' timestamp='1300019528' post='2662841']
For NPO's next act they will apologize for rolling CIS.
[/quote]

Well technically they never rolled CIS, CIS disbanded first, they just hunted down the ex-CIS members and attacked them.

At the time I believe I was critical of NPO's actions there, and I'm still not sure they should have went through with the war after the disbandment, but honestly, any alliance that disbands before even being attacked isn't worth much.