NSO Announcement

[MrRulerGuy]

[quote name='+Zeke+' timestamp='1298545854' post='2643753']
Sorry all of Bob couldn't deliver you a nice little 2 week war to amuse you, but you had better get used to this one. I can assure that both sides want this to run for months more. So roll over and take a nap, we'll wake you in May or September or next year when we feel done with this.
[/quote]


You guys must have communication disabilities because you guys a constantly putting words in my mouth. I want nothing more for this war to continue and I doubt DH or NPO will be backing out any time soon. When I say a war has lost it's appeal I mean just that. It's not exciting anymore. If you are excited about text based wars after over a month of fighting then maybe you should see somebody about that.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1298550524' post='2643776']
To the first point, sorry, I misunderstood your statement, thank you for clarifying. As for the second, we don't expect them to stop, we simply are recognizing that they are a hostile act, part of a series of hostile acts by Umbrella and MK against the NSO that led to this recognition of war.
[/quote]
Such is your prerogative, as I so eloquently informed Kevin. However I'm amused by the Sith insistence that the aid flows were hostile acts against them when (a) you declared war on GOONS, which is itself a hostile act against MK, Umbrella, and numerous others and (b) through that declaration of war attempted to interfere with and detract from the value of aid operations between three alliances. From a coalitionist perspective we are indeed the aggressors, as are all on our side, given this front was launched by a preemptive strike against Pacifica. But a coalitionist wouldn't care about the minutiae of who is at war with whom and would either recognize war with a whole coalition or ignore certain e-legal details, such as aid flows and hiccups, both of which are inevitable in the exercise of a conflict on this scale. What you and your allies attempt to implement here is the e-legal approach, strictly along the lines of treaties and formality, which is also a poor decision given the reasons listed above. You've made clear that you care about the aid flows, so it follows that you believe they should have stopped upon your entry into the conflict. I'd say this is a pretty concerted effort against the Kingdom and our allies in Umbrella, as well as others, from the moment you declared.

However I'm not interested in belaboring this point. In a war as mature as this one the e-legal method is unwieldy and inappropriate, providing few clear or definitive answers for those many treaties removed from the original conflict. The coalitionist perspective is necessary, not necessarily to simplify the aggressor/defender distinction, but because at this point the military operations of every party are so inextricably linked and merged that subsequent entries are, from even the e-legal approach, against everybody in the coalition. And perhaps best of all, the coalitionist approach saves us all from posts like my little work here.

I hope that the Sith will continue to recognize the difficulties of the e-legal approach in a mature conflict and will continue to trend toward coalitionism.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1298516243' post='2643415']
ITT SirWilliam breaks Cairna's heart.


[img]http://cd.arturion.net/forum/Smileys/default/colbert.gif[/img]

Why you gotta be that guy, SW? Don't be that guy
[/quote]

I had to.

[Free Quebec]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1298510077' post='2643307']
[color="#0000FF"]They are the aggressors. They attacked NPO, regardless of their reasons. Additionally, they are the ones who have attacked our nations. Whenever one of our larger nations comes out to fight GOONS, they are usually hit by either Umbrella or MK.

[/color]
[/quote]


Of course. MK and Umbrella should do best to punish bandwagon alliances too scared to declare war on a real target not already 100% engage.

[Mayzie]

[quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1298550237' post='2643775']
Yes, We were at war. I do not hate somebody for the past actions of my/their alliance. I am judging them on what is happening today, and with this war, I hope that they win. I don't mindlessly hail alliances just because my allies happen to be allies with their allies... or something similar.[img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img]
secondly, Why does it always have to be about "Ragnarok"? I have no official position in RoK. So why can't my opinion be taken for that, my own? why do you assume it is what RoK is thinking?
[/quote]
[quote name='ace072199' timestamp='1298551670' post='2643784']
He has a point, individual nations have a mind of their own, just because he is routing for NSO, does not mean that the whole alliance has to have the same view.
[/quote]

I was being sarcastic and pointing out the flaw in his post, making out that somehow RoK are best buddies with NSO and always run around hailing everything they do.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1298551328' post='2643782']
It is curious that our "side" is expected to follow the established conventions of war (which it does), while your coalition openly flouts those very same conventions.
[/quote]

lolconventions

They came moaning about a POW that we hit that was one of our members who deserted during war. "It's not standard procedure to hit POWs" ... It's also not standard procedure to allow a POW to walk off camp (he was more than a day alone under the defunct ONOS AA).

Nothing in this war has been 'standard procedure' since they decided to make it as such - but of course, they hold steady and consistent in their double standards.

What's good for the goose - will eventually kill the gander.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Free Quebec' timestamp='1298554384' post='2643803']
Of course. MK and Umbrella should do best to punish bandwagon alliances too scared to declare war on a real target not already 100% engage.
[/quote]
lol. You should post more.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='FindItLulz' timestamp='1298551924' post='2643786']
You guys must have communication disabilities because you guys a constantly putting words in my mouth. I want nothing more for this war to continue and I doubt DH or NPO will be backing out any time soon. When I say a war has lost it's appeal I mean just that. It's not exciting anymore. If you are excited about text based wars after over a month of fighting then maybe you should see somebody about that.
[/quote]

This war is very real "FindItLulz". War is not meant to be exciting. It is a gritty, dirty, filthy business where nations are demolished and countless lives lost. The fact you believe this war is "text-based" should mean your people should worry for your own sanity.

[potato]

[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1298551328' post='2643782']
Interesting. So your coalition considers it acceptable to continue aid shipments because they predate NSO's entry into the conflict? This must mean that your coalition considers it acceptable for alliances that have exited the war under terms to continue tech deals with alliances that you are at war with.
[/quote]

It all depends on what their surrender terms say, really.

[Ashok]

Hmmm I have to ask. MK why you !@#$%*ing about this? I thought you wanted a chance to hit us? Also I laugh at Teh Legion

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Free Quebec' timestamp='1298554384' post='2643803']
Of course. MK and Umbrella should do best to punish bandwagon alliances too scared to declare war on a real target not already 100% engage.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]What exactly are you talking about?[/color]

[Krunk the Great]

I can't imagine why MK is QQing yet GOONS is just fine with fighting...Especially considering MK is much more powerful than GOONS and all and has less to fear etc.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1298560516' post='2643850']
I can't imagine why MK is QQing yet GOONS is just fine with fighting...Especially considering MK is much more powerful than GOONS and all and has less to fear etc.
[/quote]

You'd be pissy too if your mad money was being wasted on someone elses good time

[Lord of the Dance]

[quote name='FindItLulz' timestamp='1298519934' post='2643481']
Implying I'm complaining? I love this war I'm just not entertained by it anymore. It's getting old.
[/quote]

Yeah. We at legion want you to stop fighting this silly war so we can get on with watching our infra inexorably rise. Loud bangs scare us and we are afraid of all the hostility. Hence our current tactic of sticking our heads in the sand until all the nasty boys go away again.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Lord of the Dance' timestamp='1298561037' post='2643859']
Yeah. We at legion want you to stop fighting this silly war so we can get on with watching our infra inexorably rise. Loud bangs scare us and we are afraid of all the hostility. Hence our current tactic of sticking our heads in the sand until all the nasty boys go away again.
[/quote]

The problem with burying your head in the sand, is that you leave your ass exposed to the air.

You may not like the surprise you get.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1298550056' post='2643774']
I was responding very specifically to the suggestion that this is in response to events occurring after NSO last spoke with us. Since that time there has been one war, not multiple as has been repeatedly intoned. Any wars declared since our meeting would still be active and therefore incapable of deletion.

Aid shipments to GOONS and between members of DOOMHOUSE generally predate your entry to the conflict and any expectation that they would or should cease because of your entry is foolhardy.
[/quote]

I recall a matter of 6m, that you were completely willing to support, which set the precedent that aiding is easily considered an act of war.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

Gimme some targets, I'm rather bored of rabonnobar

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1298559304' post='2643836']
[color="#0000FF"]What exactly are you talking about?[/color]
[/quote]

He thinks we're bandwagoners. Ignorance is bliss.

[rabonnobar]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1298563302' post='2643875']
Gimme some targets, I'm rather bored of rabonnobar
[/quote]

My heart is broken. ;_;

[Balkan Banania]

[quote name='Lord of the Dance' timestamp='1298561037' post='2643859']
Yeah. We at legion want you to stop fighting this silly war so we can get on with watching our infra inexorably rise. Loud bangs scare us and we are afraid of all the hostility. Hence our current tactic of sticking our heads in the sand until all the nasty boys go away again.
[/quote]

I think it is rather silly to impersonate a member of the Legion, since you are a member of GOONS for all your CN existance. I also chuckle a little with how people are always ready to bash legion, but it is another story.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1298552152' post='2643787']
Such is your prerogative, as I so eloquently informed Kevin. However I'm amused by the Sith insistence that the aid flows were hostile acts against them when (a) you declared war on GOONS, which is itself a hostile act against MK, Umbrella, and numerous others and (b) through that declaration of war attempted to interfere with and detract from the value of aid operations between three alliances. From a coalitionist perspective we are indeed the aggressors, as are all on our side, given this front was launched by a preemptive strike against Pacifica. But a coalitionist wouldn't care about the minutiae of who is at war with whom and would either recognize war with a whole coalition or ignore certain e-legal details, such as aid flows and hiccups, both of which are inevitable in the exercise of a conflict on this scale. What you and your allies attempt to implement here is the e-legal approach, strictly along the lines of treaties and formality, which is also a poor decision given the reasons listed above. You've made clear that you care about the aid flows, so it follows that you believe they should have stopped upon your entry into the conflict. I'd say this is a pretty concerted effort against the Kingdom and our allies in Umbrella, as well as others, from the moment you declared.

However I'm not interested in belaboring this point. In a war as mature as this one the e-legal method is unwieldy and inappropriate, providing few clear or definitive answers for those many treaties removed from the original conflict. The coalitionist perspective is necessary, not necessarily to simplify the aggressor/defender distinction, but because at this point the military operations of every party are so inextricably linked and merged that subsequent entries are, from even the e-legal approach, against everybody in the coalition. And perhaps best of all, the coalitionist approach saves us all from posts like my little work here.

I hope that the Sith will continue to recognize the difficulties of the e-legal approach in a mature conflict and will continue to trend toward coalitionism.
[/quote]

We DoWed on GOONS, as a direct activation of our MDP with NPO (since the war was non-chaining and separate from the other conflict). MK and Umbrella DoWed us in response by attacking our nations and sending packets of aid to GOONS. It could not be clearer. I don't exactly see how this makes us 'aggressors' in any way, unless up is down, the sky is purple, etc. You can spout on about how it's coalition warfare, and how everyone involved is somehow at war with everyone on the other side. But the problem is, [i]no one[/i] views it that way except for you three, so why would you expect anyone else on Bob to think and act the same way?

Again, this is merely a statement of the obvious.

edit:

[quote name='Balkan Banania' timestamp='1298568868' post='2643919']
I think it is rather silly to impersonate a member of the Legion, since you are a member of GOONS for all your CN existance. I also chuckle a little with how people are always ready to bash legion, but it is another story.
[/quote]

From our WarCon point of view, that may have something to do with NSO having more active wars than Legion, despite having more than 3x the members and almost 7x the NS. But I agree with that other poster, PM-boredom might have gone to his head.

Edited February 24, 2011 by KainIIIC

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1298561738' post='2643868']
I recall a matter of 6m, that you were completely willing to support, which set the precedent that aiding is easily considered an act of war.
[/quote]

No no no, that only works when its them who gets to declare war! You're doin it wrong!

[Itsuki Koizumi]

[quote name='rabonnobar' timestamp='1298568249' post='2643914']
My heart is broken. ;_;
[/quote]
tis true sweetheart. Happens if I don't get daily nukes. I get rather cranky

[Ardus]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1298561738' post='2643868']
I recall a matter of 6m, that you were completely willing to support, which set the precedent that aiding is easily considered an act of war.
[/quote]
That is not the matter we have here. The aid in this case was flowing long before you showed up to the party. Complaining about it is like walking between two people playing catch and complaining when you're hit in the head with the baseball.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Ardus

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1298561738' post='2643868']
I recall a matter of 6m, that you were completely willing to support, which set the precedent that aiding is easily considered an act of war.
[/quote]

I was under the impression aiding a combatant was always an act of war, but thank you for allowing us to claim that we set that precedent, and thank you for abiding by it! It should also be noted that declaring on our treaty partner is also an act of war, which probably explains why we continued to aid GOONS both economically and militarily(The key word being 'continued')

I would've thought that because we declared on your MDoAP partner that would be reason enough for you to recognise hostilities with us. Why have you only decided to recognise hostilities with us(MK and Umbrella) when we directly attacked you, instead of when we attacked your treaty partner?

Edited February 24, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse