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[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1296027989' post='2602395']
I admit that perhaps I may have been misinformed as to the extent of the effort but to say there was none at all is ridiculous.
[/quote]

There was none at all. No communication with the NPO or NpO on the topic of protecting NPO. None, zero, zip, nada.

It is a figment of your imagination that grew from a seed of !@#$%^&* I threw MK's way in response to their badgering about the NPO as though I was the one who controlled what they do or do not do.

As I said, it has been of some amusement to me to, one, see you guys run the story up the flagpole so often it is threadbare and, two, go a direct assault on the NPO because you believed the story I told you and got antsy about not getting a chance to hit them via traditional avenues. I'm touched you mentioned the story in your DoW and I'm amused that people keep coming to me with the story so often, even when I have told them it is a load of crap.

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
FAN maks sense; they cud even hav valid CB.

The rest? Pur BS. No one "protect" NPO, not NpO and no one els.

As for this: "With absolutely all offense intended to my friends remaining in NPO... it's about time. Things haven't changed enough since Karma. Unfortunately." Not enough changes? NPO has don nuthing on the world stage in at lest 2 yers; not on thing. Cortath runs vere tond down NPO; not same as pre-Karma. Lesuns hav ben lernd. Wanting NPO ded and disbanded dus not = NPO not having lernd or changd. For sum of you, nevr be enough.

When wil NPO stop being bogeman? Probly nevr for thos with irashunal fers and a lot of insecurete. The "old hegemony" died in Karma. Now ther is "new hegemony." Not about who is wors; just difrant. I hav idea: How abut no hegemony?

NPO wil nevr disband nor wil she di. We hav rebilt twis and we wil rebild agan. Al you do is strengthn the spirit of NPO and mak bonds of our comunite strongr. You saw that in Karma; you wil se it agan now. We wil figt and get bak up agan. No one wil destroy our spirit. No one. Evr.

NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]

IC: I believe this NPO is different. I'm still wary of you guys, but I hope you pull through this.

OOC: Just heard what happened. I wish you the best dude. I can't express how floored I am that despite what happened, you still were motivated enough to post on the OWF. Your alliance deserves you.

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[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1296026366' post='2602362']
No disrespect, but you clearly haven't been paying attention. NpO and STA, among others, have been working around the clock to keep NPO out of the war, so that they could fight another day when the odds are more favourable. NSO did the exact same thing in August. If we hadn't attacked, NPO would never have entered the war and they'd have stayed out of any future possibility of a war, rebuilding, picking up allies, and waiting to drive a wedge between us and our allies.[/quote]

While I understand that is your personal rationale, it is hardly an acceptable basis for war. MK and doomhouse in general have discarded the tradition based rule book for conflict, in pursuit of a new path laid out in their own nihilistic philosophy. While in light of this, CB's and justifications are unnecessary, don't try to mask your actions by using the same language of Casus belli's, and limited war. This may be 'an honest DoW', but it is no less unprovoked, and uncalled for. As others have done, own up for what it is: a culling.


[quote]There are those of us who know that NPO is the exact same alliance and would not hesitate to act as they did again, if only they had the power. We cannot allow this to happen, hence the declaration of war. One only needs to look at things like the attempted reinstatement of the Revenge Doctrine and refusing to sanction rogues to see this. NPO did not pay for their crimes against MK and FAN in Karma. Just because some other people attacked you and won doesn't mean we're satisfied and willing to give you a clean slate.[/quote]

'Attempted Reinstatement'? Protection of Red now falls to the multilateral organization Red Dawn, of which NPO is a member. The current Revenge doctrine merely states we find common cause and offer support to those who wish to peruse the matter of Protecting the Trade Sphere. This revised draft was approved by the Karma coalition and was announced prior to the end of the war with their knowledge and Consent. As for methrage, NPO as a condition of the Karma ToS agreed to relinquish ownership over red, as well as control of its sphere politics. In light of this senate seats are now determined democratically, and their use is shared by Red Dawn. As GOONS was among other alliances raiding the red sphere at the time, an act serving to undermine the economic position of all those residing on red, it was decided among RD that methrage would not be sanctioned. This is hardly unreasonable, and at the time it was understood as a simple tit for tat, and the refusal to do a favor for an organization actively destroying our trade base. In light of the fact that your own actions are far more egregious and rely heavily on speculation rather than on present realities, I would say what we did was more than justified. That being said, if all we are guilty of is trying to negotiate peace on behalf of a few unallieds, and refusal to sanction a rogue I'd say that we did well.

Also if I recall correctly, vanguard was a party to our surrender in Karma.

Edited by iamthey
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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
FAN maks sense; they cud even hav valid CB.

The rest? Pur BS. No one "protect" NPO, not NpO and no one els.

As for this: "With absolutely all offense intended to my friends remaining in NPO... it's about time. Things haven't changed enough since Karma. Unfortunately." Not enough changes? NPO has don nuthing on the world stage in at lest 2 yers; not on thing. Cortath runs vere tond down NPO; not same as pre-Karma. Lesuns hav ben lernd. Wanting NPO ded and disbanded dus not = NPO not having lernd or changd. For sum of you, nevr be enough.

When wil NPO stop being bogeman? Probly nevr for thos with irashunal fers and a lot of insecurete. The "old hegemony" died in Karma. Now ther is "new hegemony." Not about who is wors; just difrant. I hav idea: How abut no hegemony?

NPO wil nevr disband nor wil she di. We hav rebilt twis and we wil rebild agan. Al you do is strengthn the spirit of NPO and mak bonds of our comunite strongr. You saw that in Karma; you wil se it agan now. We wil figt and get bak up agan. No one wil destroy our spirit. No one. Evr.

NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]

OOC: I guess I'll just bandwagon here and sincerely wish you all the best. I hope you recover from rehab soon and I'll be praying for you. I hadn't heard you were unwell.

Edit: I just heard what happened. Bro, I'm so sorry. I'm sure you'll recover though :)

IC: What a load of Pacifican twaddle.

Edited by Kalasin
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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
FAN maks sense; they cud even hav valid CB.

The rest? Pur BS. No one "protect" NPO, not NpO and no one els.

As for this: "With absolutely all offense intended to my friends remaining in NPO... it's about time. Things haven't changed enough since Karma. Unfortunately." Not enough changes? NPO has don nuthing on the world stage in at lest 2 yers; not on thing. Cortath runs vere tond down NPO; not same as pre-Karma. Lesuns hav ben lernd. Wanting NPO ded and disbanded dus not = NPO not having lernd or changd. For sum of you, nevr be enough.

When wil NPO stop being bogeman? Probly nevr for thos with irashunal fers and a lot of insecurete. The "old hegemony" died in Karma. Now ther is "new hegemony." Not about who is wors; just difrant. I hav idea: How abut no hegemony?

NPO wil nevr disband nor wil she di. We hav rebilt twis and we wil rebild agan. Al you do is strengthn the spirit of NPO and mak bonds of our comunite strongr. You saw that in Karma; you wil se it agan now. We wil figt and get bak up agan. No one wil destroy our spirit. No one. Evr.

NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]
Get well soon bud :wub:

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']FAN maks sense; they cud even hav valid CB.

The rest? Pur BS. No one "protect" NPO, not NpO and no one els.

As for this: "With absolutely all offense intended to my friends remaining in NPO... it's about time. Things haven't changed enough since Karma. Unfortunately." Not enough changes? NPO has don nuthing on the world stage in at lest 2 yers; not on thing. Cortath runs vere tond down NPO; not same as pre-Karma. Lesuns hav ben lernd. Wanting NPO ded and disbanded dus not = NPO not having lernd or changd. For sum of you, nevr be enough.

When wil NPO stop being bogeman? Probly nevr for thos with irashunal fers and a lot of insecurete. The "old hegemony" died in Karma. Now ther is "new hegemony." Not about who is wors; just difrant. I hav idea: How abut no hegemony?

NPO wil nevr disband nor wil she di. We hav rebilt twis and we wil rebild agan. Al you do is strengthn the spirit of NPO and mak bonds of our comunite strongr. You saw that in Karma; you wil se it agan now. We wil figt and get bak up agan. No one wil destroy our spirit. No one. Evr.

NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.[/quote]
OOC: Recover soon, Planet Bob needs leaders like yourself.

IC: This will be NPO's chance to show its mettle. Make your mark, Pacifica. Show the world that you are still able to fight... and this time for justice.

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[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1296008452' post='2601595']
I'm completly fine with perpetual wars, viceroys and disbandments.
[/quote]
If this sentiment is indicative of MK's collective thinking then this is a tragedy beyond words :(

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1296011389' post='2601668']
[color="#0000FF"]
As for your last sentence, that is exactly why the MK many of us knew is dead.[/color]
[/quote]
Indeed, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1296022407' post='2602238']
Either you're enormously naive or you have very, [b]VERY[/b] little knowledge of the NPO.
[/quote]
heh Raga knows plenty about the NPO, you obviously do not know who Raga is or what he has fought for in the past.

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]
OOC: SIncere best wishes Moo, may your recovery be swift ;)

Edited by Cataduanes
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[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295995573' post='2601120']
NPO's allies can't touch you? :huh:

Okay then.

[ooc] wat up wit it old homie [/ooc]
[/quote]

They can touch us in the same way I would touch a delicate rose. They can't make an impact

[ooc]Everything is fine on my part old friend, you[/OOC]


[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1295995776' post='2601125']
NPO's powerful allies: TPF, The Legion, Invicta, TOOL, and NSO will truly be Doom House's undoing.
[/quote]

:eng99:


[quote name='Vladimir Nikanor' timestamp='1295997595' post='2601178']
I really, really, really hope you aren't that ignorant to think that. You declared war on NPO for no reason other than "they're big and pose a threat". Who's to say their allies can't do the same to you?
[/quote]

I am saying that their allies aren't big and therefore are no threat. That's why I am not all that afraid


[quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1296000398' post='2601255']
With moves like this you are assuming that only NPO's allies would want to "do something about it". Remember the premise of Karma was not solely about allies but more about a shared vision and common enemy. Something you all have been brilliant at creating.
[/quote]

Well... So far the total of other alliances "doing something about it" is a big fat zero

Prove me wrong






[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]


OOC: Get well Moo. Some things are a bit more important then the game, and this is certainly one of the cases.

Edited by SpiderJerusalem
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[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1296023889' post='2602287']
Scared, no. We've pissed on NPO before. Vigilant and steadfast in our hatred, yes. So technically, the CB sould have read "We hate NPO," and I assure you it does.

[/quote]
The whole premise of the DoW was fear of what a strong NPO could potentially become in the future assuming they had not changed. Your confirmation they returned to their evil ways was not getting involved in this war quickly enough to satify your paranoia. Much like a child trying to kill a spider, he sees the spider doing nothing mind it own business and gets scared and stomps on it. Fear makes people make rash decisions, they dont think they just strike out in a panic.

IC: burn MK
OOC: yeah you know it.

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296038385' post='2602524']
The whole premise of the DoW was fear of what a strong NPO could potentially become in the future assuming they had not changed.
[/quote]

You are essentially wrong. I am betting you haven't talked much with officials in the back channels, have you?

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[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1296038563' post='2602527']
You are essentially wrong. I am betting you haven't talked much with officials in the back channels, have you?
[/quote]
Thats a fancier no u that people in MK usually give. You have won me over with your stellar comment. Id also like to see everything die to save life is there any koolade left?

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296038818' post='2602531']
Thats a fancier no u that people in MK usually give. You have won me over with your stellar comment. Id also like to see everything die to save life is there any koolade left?
[/quote]

No, really, it's not meant as a "no u". I am merely telling you that you are misinformed

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]


ooc- You are welcome moo, im glad we could all get together on your cowbell. its pretty awesome and im sorta jealous lol. Get better every day cow!

ic-nukes r good for the children... :P

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
--snip
[/quote]

OOC: Welcome back TR, I wish you a speedy recovery!

IC: Nice post Trotsky. You are right in many respects. There will be people across bob who can and will not forgive Pacifica for their behaviour, with their curbstomps, with their viceroys. [ooc]I mean look at Earth. The wars during the 20th century, many of the population of the planet still hold grudges and levels of hate from it, nearly a hundred years later.[/ooc]

New denizens of bob are reading these boards, hearing about the "NPO Bogeyman". When honestly, NPO is a shadow of its former self.

Doomhouse is doing what Militaries have done time and time again. Gone in for the sole reason that "durr they may be up to something".

After this war, Bygones be Bygones, BOB needs peace between all nations. (or at least another detente situation for a few years so i can get loads of tech :P)

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1296024310' post='2602303']
FAN maks sense; they cud even hav valid CB.

The rest? Pur BS. No one "protect" NPO, not NpO and no one els.

As for this: "With absolutely all offense intended to my friends remaining in NPO... it's about time. Things haven't changed enough since Karma. Unfortunately." Not enough changes? NPO has don nuthing on the world stage in at lest 2 yers; not on thing. Cortath runs vere tond down NPO; not same as pre-Karma. Lesuns hav ben lernd. Wanting NPO ded and disbanded dus not = NPO not having lernd or changd. For sum of you, nevr be enough.

When wil NPO stop being bogeman? Probly nevr for thos with irashunal fers and a lot of insecurete. The "old hegemony" died in Karma. Now ther is "new hegemony." Not about who is wors; just difrant. I hav idea: How abut no hegemony?

NPO wil nevr disband nor wil she di. We hav rebilt twis and we wil rebild agan. Al you do is strengthn the spirit of NPO and mak bonds of our comunite strongr. You saw that in Karma; you wil se it agan now. We wil figt and get bak up agan. No one wil destroy our spirit. No one. Evr.

NOT: I apoligis for bad writing. I am now in Rehab Centr and hav lot to relern. Ples bar with me.

OOC: I wuld lik to thank evry one for wel wishs and thots and prayrs. I wuld lik to thank Archon, Zulchep, AirMe, Chefjoe, Shadow, RSox and Stormsend for cowbels. I wuld like thank membrs of my alince for al they hav don and continu to do. I lik this CN comunite becus ther ar tims that game afilashuns put asid and we can suport each othr.
[/quote]

Me and Exodus wish you and your family the best and fastest recovery man...You will be in my prayers...

Edited by mylife125
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[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1296029174' post='2602421']
MK and doomhouse in general have discarded the tradition based rule book for conflict
[/quote]
That was a rule book written by NPO. The days when we were forced to play by your rules are long gone. May they never return.

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[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296054776' post='2602714']
That was a rule book written by NPO. The days when we were forced to play by your rules are long gone. May they never return.
[/quote]
Its the rulebook Karma cried about in the build up to that war. Like no one getting attacked for no reason, you better cling to power while you can because its open season on MK for all time if you lose, CB not neccessary. Your rules

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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296054995' post='2602718']
Its the rulebook Karma cried about in the build up to that war. Like no one getting attacked for no reason, you better cling to power while you can because its open season on MK for all time if you lose, CB not neccessary. Your rules
[/quote]

We've been asking for some sort of opposition for ages now. It looks like we have it. Let's just hope it's semi-competent this time.

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[quote name='potato' timestamp='1296055372' post='2602731']
We've been asking for some sort of opposition for ages now. It looks like we have it. Let's just hope it's semi-competent this time.
[/quote]
Given the lack of any response last night, I wouldn't count on it.

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[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1296026366' post='2602362']
No disrespect, but you clearly haven't been paying attention. NpO and STA, among others, have been working around the clock to keep NPO out of the war, so that they could fight another day when the odds are more favourable. NSO did the exact same thing in August. If we hadn't attacked, NPO would never have entered the war and they'd have stayed out of any future possibility of a war, rebuilding, picking up allies, and waiting to drive a wedge between us and our allies.

There are those of us who know that NPO is the exact same alliance and would not hesitate to act as they did again, if only they had the power. We cannot allow this to happen, hence the declaration of war. One only needs to look at things like the attempted reinstatement of the Revenge Doctrine and refusing to sanction rogues to see this. NPO did not pay for their crimes against MK and FAN in Karma. Just because some other people attacked you and won doesn't mean we're satisfied and willing to give you a clean slate.

We agree with your idea, and have always agreed with it. There should never be a "hegemony" that behaves the same way NPO did in back rooms when PR wasn't an issue. In any case, NPO will no longer be the hated enemy of MK that it is after this war. After this war, our bloodlust will be satiated and we will have had our revenge. Perhaps then MK and those of you who are members of NPO now can shake hands and bury the hatchet.

I am glad to hear it and I look forward to testing this resolve on the field of battle. I wish you good luck.
[/quote]
What we did last August had nothing to do with protecting NPO - it had to do with keeping a dumb conflict small and isolated. But congratulations on admitting to hunting for the NPO for so long now.

And your tripe about "Same alliance" and "they were evil tyrants once" is doubly hilarious now that you've proven so many of us right. There was never anything special about NPO or the "hegemonic" powers other than being really powerful. The moment you guys get a taste of that power, you immediately behave in the exact same way. VE declares war for some shoddy trumped up reason, Doomhouse declares war for no reason at all, and TOP supports another attempt to take out an Order because of some old imagined slight.

You can't defend your actions with "preventing a return of the hegemony" when 1) NPO was in no position to make such a return, regardless of if they've changed or not, 2) you're rolling in with TOP, an alliance that enabled, condoned, or even instigated every single excess of hegemonic power in the past, and 3) your own actions here herald a return to the worst excesses of power.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296054776' post='2602714']
That was a rule book written by NPO. The days when we were forced to play by your rules are long gone. May they never return.
[/quote]
Yet you still define yourself by your hatred of them.

Edited by Heft
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Alot of people are posting very intelligent, well thought out, and interesting posts on this thread. However the fact remains that this entire war was unprovoked, unjust, and completely ridiculous. MK didnt start a war to "Save CN", they started a war because they were bored and feeling left out (I've not been included in many "back channel" chats either). Whatever NPO did 2 years ago should not be cause for a CB now (I was here for the bullying so I can say that). MK/Doomhouse is the new bully on the playground, congratulations on becoming what you've fought so hard to rid Bob of.

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Guide to original content.

1. Point out that this is not a valid cb
2. Say "You're worse than NPO", "You've become the monster" or something along those lines.

Congratulations you've contributed to the discussion!

Edited by neneko
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Yes!! I've done my part.

I did not say that MK has become a monster and I definitly did not say they have become the old NPO!

o/ MK!

Im not insulting MK, I Do disagree with your actions though.

lol .. ok, saying you were a bully was kinda an insult. My bad :P

Edited by Hero89
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[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1296026366' post='2602362']
No disrespect, but you clearly haven't been paying attention. NpO and STA, among others, have been working around the clock to keep NPO out of the war, so that they could fight another day when the odds are more favourable. NSO did the exact same thing in August. If we hadn't attacked, NPO would never have entered the war and they'd have stayed out of any future possibility of a war, rebuilding, picking up allies, and waiting to drive a wedge between us and our allies.[/quote]

I very much doubt this. After being in NPO for a while, I got the distinct impression that NPO did not want anything to do with NpO and the feelings seemed very mutual in the embassy conversations that occured between both parties.

[quote]There are those of us who know that NPO is the exact same alliance and would not hesitate to act as they did again, if only they had the power. We cannot allow this to happen, hence the declaration of war. One only needs to look at things like the attempted reinstatement of the Revenge Doctrine and refusing to sanction rogues to see this. NPO did not pay for their crimes against MK and FAN in Karma. Just because some other people attacked you and won doesn't mean we're satisfied and willing to give you a clean slate.[/quote]

For the year in which NPO was held by the balls, it makes sense that they might try and gleam a little bit of power. What you saw as the NPO trying to fall back into old ways, was more likely the NPO trying to re-assert itself as someone worthy of respect, but only after they had been humbled and made amends for past wrongs. The response from Karma and now this GOONsie coalition was to continue to ruthlessly crush the NPO, because of imagined slights and fictional threats.

[quote]We agree with your idea, and have always agreed with it. There should never be a "hegemony" that behaves the same way NPO did in back rooms when PR wasn't an issue. In any case, NPO will no longer be the hated enemy of MK that it is after this war. After this war, our bloodlust will be satiated and we will have had our revenge. Perhaps then MK and those of you who are members of NPO now can shake hands and bury the hatchet.
[/quote]

I heard these comments during Karma too. You will never be rid of your hatred of NPO, no matter how many times you try to curbstomp them.

I must say, I didn't anticipate coming out in defence of the NPO so strongly. Realistically, my time with them was distasteful for me and I can't say it did much for me in being in the NPO. But that said, the allegations you are making against them are simply not true.

Edited by Hydro
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