A call to those betrayed by Polaris

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1295338961' post='2580880']
VE has done the same.

We'll see what ROK does, but it does look like they would have a limited selection of targets. With GOD's viewing its alliance with VE as higher than SF and ROK's VE treaty SF is fairly neutralized with PB, or at least with VE.

We'll see how this plays out. I can see why folks would want Polaris to get hit, but I can also see the oppurtunism involved here, the same type that most here fought against in Karma.

Oh well, what comes around goes around.
[/quote]
If GOD wants RoK to ignore their treaty here after just recently RIA had to tell their ally to ignore the blatant spy attacks against them by SLCB due to the same alliances involved in this attack on NpO supporting them (iFOK/PC along with PB), then there really is no hope left for SF. If signatories of SF don't want to be on their own when PB eventually rolls them, they need to stand their ground here together and throw everything they have into this war to try winning it if they don't want to be picked off one by one afterward.

If what people are saying is true on SF wanting to sit this out as they hope PB doesn't come for them next and GOD holding their treaty with VE as more important than SF is, then they might as well just disband the bloc so they aren't as obvious of a target for PB as they try making sure any uncontrollable potential threats are neutralized. I'm beginning to wonder if the only one with balls in the bloc left when Fark took their leave, although its not update yet so there is still hope for them.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Methrage

[Joseph Black]

I agree with Methrage

[SyndicatedINC]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1295352340' post='2581124']
he isnt worried about you catching fire, "dont hold your breath" would have made more sense.

@OP: Im sure people will do what they feel is right, like they always have without people making threads like this.
[/quote]

Hey System, long time no see, also it would be refreshing to see people doing what they think is right, rather than what is personally beneficial for once.

Edited January 18, 2011 by SyndicatedINC

[omfghi2u2]

After reading this thread and other ones with MVP, he reminds me of this guy I once knew.

My buddy and I were talking about fraternities when this guy I knew would enter our conversation (MVP) and start to talk about fraternities with us. After my buddy and I would stop talking about fraternities, we would move onto a different topic, girls lets say. Fifteen minutes later, this guy (MVP) would all of a sudden say, "But dude, the frats!"

You are like the guy who always likes to bring up a topic that was long ago. Move on and let it go. Jeez.

-omfg

[The MVP]

[quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295390420' post='2582144']
After reading this thread and other ones with MVP, he reminds me of this guy I once knew.

My buddy and I were talking about fraternities when this guy I knew would enter our conversation (MVP) and start to talk about fraternities with us. After my buddy and I would stop talking about fraternities, we would move onto a different topic, girls lets say. Fifteen minutes later, this guy (MVP) would all of a sudden say, "But dude, the frats!"

You are like the guy who always likes to bring up a topic that was long ago. Move on and let it go. Jeez.

-omfg
[/quote]

Well congrats.. this has to be the [i]dumbest[/i] thing I have ever heard.

I have no idea how Polaris getting its just desserts over actions long ago that are now coming to light now and are being shown as to why a lot who would have supported them a year ago won't any longer. Instead you decided that it's like talking about fraternities, then to girls and the back to fraternities. Are you all so starved to kill the anger of many of those whom you betrayed (D34th, AlmightyGrub, Merger, omfg, Charles Stewart) that you'll make the most asinine statements just because?

Jesus wept.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295390695' post='2582152']
Well congrats.. this has to be the [i]dumbest[/i] thing I have ever heard.

I have no idea how Polaris getting its just desserts over actions long ago that are now coming to light now and are being shown as to why a lot who would have supported them a year ago won't any longer. Instead you decided that it's like talking about fraternities, then to girls and the back to fraternities. Are you all so starved to kill the anger of many of those whom you betrayed (D34th, AlmightyGrub, Merger, omfg, Charles Stewart) that you'll make the most asinine statements just because?

Jesus wept.
[/quote]

When did NpO poach Charles from us? I believe this calls for another DoW

[omfghi2u2]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295390695' post='2582152']
Well congrats.. this has to be the [i]dumbest[/i] thing I have ever heard.

I have no idea how Polaris getting its just desserts over actions long ago that are now coming to light now and are being shown as to why a lot who would have supported them a year ago won't any longer. Instead you decided that it's like talking about fraternities, then to girls and the back to fraternities. Are you all so starved to kill the anger of many of those whom you betrayed (D34th, AlmightyGrub, Merger, omfg, Charles Stewart) that you'll make the most asinine statements just because?

Jesus wept.
[/quote]

"But dude, the TOP-CnG war!"

-omfg

Edited January 18, 2011 by omfghi2u2

[Vol Navy]

I don't get the MK vitrol towards Polaris from Bi-Polar. They broke their arms hailing Grub when Polaris pulled the switch.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295390695' post='2582152']
Well congrats.. this has to be the [i]dumbest[/i] thing I have ever heard.

I have no idea how Polaris getting its just desserts over actions long ago that are now coming to light now and are being shown as to why a lot who would have supported them a year ago won't any longer. Instead you decided that it's like talking about fraternities, then to girls and the back to fraternities. Are you all so starved to kill the anger of many of those whom you betrayed (D34th, AlmightyGrub, Merger, omfg, Charles Stewart) that you'll make the most asinine statements just because?

Jesus wept.
[/quote]
Those who have a legitimate reason to be angry with NpO over that aren't allied to them, so to say those who are allied to NpO should use that as an excuse to betray them now, despite keeping their treaties or signing new ones with NpO after that is ridiculous. As for those who dislike NpO using this as a chance to jump on them, PB has already done that and unless someone is firmly situated in the PB power structure they are better off sitting this out and hope that both sides manage to do a good deal of damage against each other. Bringing the BiPolar War into this benefits no one, as that would be the dumbest excuse I've seen in a long time for an alliance to not honor a treaty they kept regardless. You cancel treaties with people for stuff like that after the war during peace time, you don't hold onto the treaty for almost a year after that, then when they get attacked you tell them you're not going to honor the treaty because you didn't like what they did in the last major war.

Your grudge towards NpO leading you to support PB here and trying to get everyone to minimize Pandora's Box's losses by saying their allies should betray them seems very pointless and foolish, you should rethink what you're trying to argue for here. Also RandomInterrupt is a better leader than Grub, so they've improved their decision making ability since then.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Methrage

[The MVP]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1295391711' post='2582179']
Those who have a legitimate reason to be angry with NpO over that aren't allied to them, so to say those who are allied to NpO should use that as an excuse to betray them now, despite keeping their treaties or signing new ones with NpO after that is ridiculous. As for those who dislike NpO using this as a chance to jump on them, PB has already done that and unless someone is firmly situated in the PB power structure they are better off sitting this out and hope that both sides manage to do a good deal of damage against each other. Bringing the BiPolar War into this benefits no one, as that would be the dumbest excuse I've seen in a long time for an alliance to not honor a treaty they kept regardless. You cancel treaties with people for stuff like that after the war during peace time, you don't hold onto the treaty for almost a year after that, then when they get attacked you tell them you're not going to honor the treaty because you didn't like what they did in the last major war.

Your grudge towards NpO leading you to support PB here and trying to get everyone to minimize Pandora's Box's losses by saying their allies should betray them seems very pointless and foolish, you should rethink what you're trying to argue for here. Also RandomInterrupt is a better leader than Grub, so they've improved their decision making ability since then.
[/quote]

I really don't get what's clear about us going in support for Polaris when Polaris [i]needed[/i] it and although they may not have asked for it, they certainly did appreciate it. That is, of course, until those very same alliances you say that shouldn't feel at all betrayed by Polaris were left out in the cold while Polaris went inside its nice comfy home.

This has nothing to do with supporting PB. I think most of the alliances in there are awful, but do you realize those very same alliances now are the ones Polaris helped ensure victory for? The ones who we felt a need to help Polaris help oppose then? You wouldn't understand, nor do I expect you too. But to those that do, those that were actually there, that actually experienced and witnessed it know. And we don't need any counciling from Polar or bystandards to tell us what to do or how to feel.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1295391309' post='2582170']
I don't get the MK vitrol towards Polaris from Bi-Polar. They broke their arms hailing Grub when Polaris pulled the switch.
[/quote]

They weren't hailing Grub. They were hailing their successful manipulation of NpO and victory over a grave threat.

[Systemfailure]

[quote name='SyndicatedINC' timestamp='1295390151' post='2582137']
Hey System, long time no see, also it would be refreshing to see people doing what they think is right, rather than what is personally beneficial for once.
[/quote]
Right back at ya pal

Yeah it would be good for people do whats right but i think this isn't going to be one of those times, i mean its been at least....36minutes since the last curbstomp and the GRL is still below 10.

I think its time to break out the SPF 9000+,Lawnchairs and get some popcorn cooking

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295392022' post='2582186']
I really don't get what's clear about us going in support for Polaris when Polaris [i]needed[/i] it and although they may not have asked for it, they certainly did appreciate it. That is, of course, until those very same alliances you say that shouldn't feel at all betrayed by Polaris were left out in the cold while Polaris went inside its nice comfy home.

This has nothing to do with supporting PB. I think most of the alliances in there are awful, but do you realize those very same alliances now are the ones Polaris helped ensure victory for? The ones who we felt a need to help Polaris help oppose then? You wouldn't understand, nor do I expect you too. But to those that do, those that were actually there, that actually experienced and witnessed it know. And we don't need any counciling from Polar or bystandards to tell us what to do or how to feel.
[/quote]
The entire BiPolar war I was in NSO who was stuck fighting a war they entered for NpO long after their reason for entering the war had switched sides, so I understand all the dislike for NpO and I'm not fond of them myself. That still isn't a reason for people not to honor their treaties here, now its a bit late for those who wanted to stay allied to NpO regardless to decide NpO isn't worth protecting. Also if people ignore their treaty with NpO because its NpO, it doesn't give me much confidence that any of their treaties will be upheld if PB attacks another of their allies later down the road.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1295392440' post='2582197']
The entire BiPolar war I was in NSO who was stuck fighting a war they entered for NpO long after their reason for entering the war had switched sides, so I understand all the dislike for NpO and I'm not fond of them myself. That still isn't a reason for people not to honor their treaties here, now its a bit late for those who wanted to stay allied to NpO regardless to decide NpO isn't worth protecting. Also if people ignore their treaty with NpO because its NpO, it doesn't give me much confidence that any of their treaties will be upheld if PB attacks another of their allies later down the road.
[/quote]

Oh no I agree with that. By all mean honor your treaties, that's the whole point of one. That's right Ragnarok, maybe you should I don't know do it? (A warrior alliance in name but a cowardly one in action). However those who were directly involved in this incident, and who may by some proxy though not directly tied to Polaris enter should have every right to feel the right to abstain from the war entirely. That's what I'm doing, at least. Are my alliance mates happy about it? No, not at all. It's just I can't fight for Polaris this war, it won't happen.

For those that are treatied with Polaris, especially those that weren't betrayed, for example UPN, of course should go in.

And then switch sides halfway through the war.

[Penguin]

Hi MVP. I always feel sympathetic to those consumed by real hatred while staring at their computers, even if it's directed at me. Here's hoping you can exchange my infra for some degree of emotional closure and finally move on. As a fellow player, it would be worth it if I thought my pixels alone could cross the OOC/IC divide and actually make you feel better, although I fear hatred will only beget more hatred. We'll see I guess.

[The MVP]

Penguin, God forbid anything ever happen to you or anyone in Polaris that's bad. In terms of IC...well

burn

[Branimir]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1295392388' post='2582194']They weren't hailing Grub. They were hailing their successful manipulation of NpO and victory over a grave threat.[/quote]
Which "grave threat" then they allied afterwards largely fueled by animosity towards NpO only to get beaten to the punch in striking NpO by VE.

This game man,...lol, just a shame it takes ever so more time for stuff to happen.

[DogeWilliam]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295332066' post='2580467']
You know, people always tell me well it's just a game your whatever is just whatever it's just a game man!

Well here's the thing. At the onset of this war Polaris wanted to set a precedent that a certain amount of decorum had to be displayed and that such childish acts can't rule the day. Many agreed, and many of who agreed were ex-Hegemonic alliances. Polaris knew that the sides were lined up to be 50/50 and that the only way we had a shot to finally put an end to the GOON-like behavior would be through this. With Polaris and its allies along with ex-Hegemonic alliances going up to bat it seemed like this was it, this was our time. And with TOP/IRON/TORN/DAWN about to go in as well it appeared like there was a good chance we'd pull through. No longer would we have to put up with the childish behavior of GOONS/\m/MK/Umbrella and whoever.
[/quote]

Well speak for yourself on that one. I like MK and Umbrella and the majority of TOP had a positive opinion of MK before the last war. This is a game with a war option so people want to use it sometimes. To say TOP wanted to wipe out the lulz is wrong. But, NpO did pull a pretty derp derp maneuver on us so they don't have many friends. lol

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295392751' post='2582207']
Oh no I agree with that. By all mean honor your treaties, that's the whole point of one. That's right Ragnarok, maybe you should I don't know do it? (A warrior alliance in name but a cowardly one in action). However those who were directly involved in this incident, and who may by some proxy though not directly tied to Polaris enter should have every right to feel the right to abstain from the war entirely. That's what I'm doing, at least. Are my alliance mates happy about it? No, not at all. It's just I can't fight for Polaris this war, it won't happen.

For those that are treatied with Polaris, especially those that weren't betrayed, for example UPN, of course should go in.

And then switch sides halfway through the war.
[/quote]
If RoK were to enter the war and switch sides half way through, the ones they would really be screwing over are whoever enters to assist RoK. So if you thought NpO was wrong for what they did, I don't think you would approve of RoK pulling a similar stunt. After the BiPolar War I don't expect anyone without a treaty to enter to help NpO, but if NpO's allies enter we might see more alliances enter to assist allies of theirs who enter to honor their treaties. At that point the war would no longer be about NpO, but a global war that will cause a new power structure to be formed out of the destruction to replace the current Hegemony. If VE wins it will be PB and their Hegemonic power will be clear, although if NpO and whatever alliances enter on their side win, the alliances that make up the new Hegemony will be more unclear with power distributed more evenly.

[WalkerNinja]

Against any other alliance, I'd probably be bad mouthing VE a lot.

Against Polaris, the casus belli seems poetic.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295332066' post='2580467']
Well here's the thing. At the onset of this war Polaris wanted to set a precedent that a certain amount of decorum had to be displayed and that such childish acts can't rule the day. Many agreed, and many of who agreed were ex-Hegemonic alliances. Polaris knew that the sides were lined up to be 50/50 and that the only way we had a shot to finally put an end to the GOON-like behavior would be through this. With Polaris and its allies along with ex-Hegemonic alliances going up to bat it seemed like this was it, this was our time. And with TOP/IRON/TORN/DAWN about to go in as well it appeared like there was a good chance we'd pull through. No longer would we have to put up with the childish behavior of GOONS/\m/MK/Umbrella and whoever.
[/quote]
Just for the record, we didn't enter in support of Polar's CB in particular, nor to enforce behavior standards on any alliances in general. CnG was a critical target, being the most skilled in war group of the opposing forces. I hate to tell you, but MK/whoever weren't going to have behavior rules put on them nor reps. We were in it looking for a quick, decisive strike to end the war.

Now of course Polar's antics assured it didn't end that way. And while CnG's behavior w/r/t the end of that war didn't exactly endear them to us, they stabbed us while looking us in the eye.

Polar stabbed us in the back.

[Harry Dresden]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295326686' post='2580162']
If the administrator of the game isn't concerned, why should we be?
[/quote]
[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1295326991' post='2580180']
He never said that it wasn't going to cause serious damage. He's saying we shouldn't care because Admin doesn't.
[/quote]

Any more talk on this trend will be met with a warn. It's off topic and doesn't contribute anything.

[Chalaskan]

My story begins in GWIII with Legion coming in a war too late to help its allies due to dumb ass leadership. That is when Grub went from the MoD position of NAAC who disbanded for NpO and company. He was obviously a traitor at that point and was looking to further his nation with no regard to his alliance.

FF to our last war, I left TOP to help NpO on the moral crusade...those that know me, know that I have been a moralist in this game since my nation was started. I talked with Grub and he promised me he was on the up and up...I had serious doubts yet I went there and instructed troops on how to fight, bringing major havoc specifically with the ones I and my NpO brethren fought. Well, then the turn around happened minutes after ToP declared on C&G NpO pulled out, leaving its allies high and dry.

Really, if you trust this alliance you are quite naive.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Chalaskan

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Chalaskan' timestamp='1295414678' post='2582858']
My story begins in GWIII with Legion coming in a war too late to help its allies due to dumb ass leadership. That is when Grub went from the MoD position of NAAC who disbanded for NpO and company. He was obviously a traitor at that point and was looking to further his nation with no regard to his alliance.

FF to our last war, I left TOP to help NpO on the moral crusade...those that know me, know that I have been a moralist in this game since my nation was started. I talked with Grub and he promised me he was on the up and up...I had serious doubts yet I went there and instructed troops on how to fight, bringing major havoc specifically with the ones I and my NpO brethren fought. Well, then the turn around happened minutes after ToP declared on C&G NpO pulled out, leaving its allies high and dry.

Really, if you trust this alliance you are quite naive.
[/quote]

Oh dear, the old NAAC-NpO story... love it, but it fails on so many levels.

In regards the other matter, you have every right to be upset about what happened to you personally.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1295415083' post='2582885']
Oh dear, the old NAAC-NpO story... love it, but it fails on so many levels.

In regards the other matter, you have every right to be upset about what happened to you personally.
[/quote]

I appreciate that. But it isn't just personal Grub...it was alliance wide...