A call to those betrayed by Polaris

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1295503644' post='2585516']
Oh if only you followed your own logic. Have fun!
[/quote]

I followed my own logic just fine thanks. You seem to think I want the same things you do woody.

[Moridin]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1295503552' post='2585500']
This isn't about Polaris anymore Toto, alliances will make their decisions based on what is good for them. Anyone who chooses to ignore logic to give Polaris a backhander deserves exactly what they will get. You lot are self-serving enough to work it out. Enjoy
[/quote]

Don't you bring Toto into this

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1295504669' post='2585630']
Don't you bring Toto into this
[/quote]

Hold the Line

[The MVP]

[quote]You have your view of the world, I have mine. I know lots of people were upset by what I did, I don't actually care. You will have to learn to deal with that somehow.[/quote]

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=New%20Polar%20Order"]We are, oh trust me we are.[/url]

[Augustus Autumn]

Just to throw it out there, and forgive me if this has been raised before, but since the revelation that this entire war was a setup to spark some activity doesn't that render the whole moral crusade against the evil Polaris doing it again rather, well, misguided? Polaris got pinned with doing something it didn't do by admission of the person perpetrating the hoax so where is all the righteous vengeance coming from here? Seems a little hollow in light of that.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1295512212' post='2585958']
Just to throw it out there, and forgive me if this has been raised before, but since the revelation that this entire war was a setup to spark some activity doesn't that render the whole moral crusade against the evil Polaris doing it again rather, well, misguided? Polaris got pinned with doing something it didn't do by admission of the person perpetrating the hoax so where is all the righteous vengeance coming from here? Seems a little hollow in light of that.
[/quote]
The setup wouldn't have worked if Dajobo hadn't been a willing participant. So no.

[Cyber Nationz]

This thread is nonsense.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1295501451' post='2585185']
Wait, I thought we were paying the price for talking to a wannabe spy.
[/quote]
No, you were setup by Lennox who was pissed about you selling out his old home in NSO to people who were trying to destroy it.

[Louisa]

[quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1295512212' post='2585958']
the whole moral crusade against the evil Polaris
[/quote]

Polaris is not evil, they...


(I will finish that sentence when I finally get my GW3 medal(s?), please hurry up, I have missed it/them so.)

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1295485332' post='2584597']
[quote name='Chief Savage Man']End the Orders forever.[/quote]
WotC & Karma were far too lenient. These mistakes must be rectified.[/quote]

Don't worry, it will happen, but no need to rush. Besides, it's easier to take them one at a time.

[DogeWilliam]

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1295501563' post='2585206']
Spy whatever it is I dont know or care = why this war is happening

Betraying a whole coalition in the last war for petty revenge = why you will lose
[/quote]

This feels irrefutable to me. I judge not your motives, but your actions have certainly led you here.

[wke235]

So lets see if we have this straight

1) Polaris supposedly sold out NSO in the past. This angered Lennox.
2) During an online chat, Dajobo (2nd in command for Polaris) spoke with Lennox laying out concrete plans on how someone could infiltrate VE or a second related alliance.
3) Lennox took the whole conversation to VE
4) VE worked with Lennox to provide materials to send to Dajobo
5) Dajobo willing and gladly accepted the materials and was happy to do so.

I think what this all shows is how incompetent and/or corrupt the Polaris leadership is. I mean, they sold out an alliance (which may or may not be true, I can only speak to how Lennox reacted). Then they try to convince someone from the sold out alliance to spy for them in VE. And when they get caught breaking their own codes of ethics and rules (with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar), they cry set-up. The TRUTH here is Polaris would not be in trouble if Dajobo (likely with RandomInterrupts OK as he doesn't take a dump without prior approval) hadn't been SO damn willing to not only agree to such spying but help work out the details on how it could be accomplished and then accept the stolen goods. If they weren't so hypocritical between what they say and their own actions, there would have been no war.

As further proof, one only look at the Polaris communications to all the nations in their alliance. It starts out with a well worded declaration claiming that VE and allies are only interested in Might makes right and so Polaris must stand up for the rights of others (*sniff* brings tears to my eyes). This is followed by later communications where they consistently rally the troops claiming Polaris has the numbers in nukes, nations, and strength (Hey, there's no way we can lose, trust us). And finally, even as close to 70% of their top 50 players head into Peace mode (supposedly to save money so they can help others rebuild later), they encourage the members to keep fighting the fight .. on their behalf. Not once have they communicated the reasons behind the war, or the true numbers in nations and strength, to any members. As a matter of fact, the threaten to punish members who speak on the forums without permission as part of their process to control the nations and try to obscure what is going on.

Polaris used to be a honorable and grand alliance. But as past and current actions show, the leadership has become corrupt, more concerned with their own well being than the alliance, and very willing to compromise the alliances principles if it meets their goals. That's why I'm proud to be a PB POW right now. When I'm lied to right to my face, I had no choice.

[shahman]

[quote name='wke235' timestamp='1296693543' post='2616748']
Not once have they communicated the reasons behind the war, or the true numbers in nations and strength, to any members.
[/quote]

True numbers can be found on the statistics screen.

Reasons for the War can be found as a PINNED THREAD (last I checked) in the member general forum.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='wke235' timestamp='1296693543' post='2616748']
So lets see if we have this straight

1) Polaris supposedly sold out NSO in the past. This angered Lennox.
2) During an online chat, Dajobo (2nd in command for Polaris) spoke with Lennox laying out concrete plans on how someone could infiltrate VE or a second related alliance.
3) Lennox took the whole conversation to VE
4) VE worked with Lennox to provide materials to send to Dajobo
5) Dajobo willing and gladly accepted the materials and was happy to do so.

I think what this all shows is how incompetent and/or corrupt the Polaris leadership is.
[/quote]

1) Probably true.
2) False. A casual conversation was had and some of NpO's potential enemies were mentioned. Lennox volunteered to get screenshots. At no point was Lennox actually working for NpO.
3) True.
4) True.
5) He accepted the materials and admits doing so, "gladly" and "happy" are your words.

It proves that Dajobo should have offered to resign, that resignation should have been accepted, and Dajobo suffer consequences. It does not prove the incompetence of the entirety of NpO's leadership.

One piece you also omitted: Lennox was working for VE the entire time, likely even before Dajobo was contacted originally. Thus the entire thing was a VE trap that Dajobo fell in to and it cost Polaris a war.

Enjoy your Stockholm Syndrome.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='wke235' timestamp='1296693543' post='2616748']
So lets see if we have this straight

When I'm lied to right to my face, I had no choice.
[/quote]

One thing Polaris never does is lie to you. You are perhaps just too simple to understand what you are being told. Hug those pixels comrade, they keep you warm at night in that cold friendless world out there.

Edited February 3, 2011 by AlmightyGrub

[bkphysics]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1296694849' post='2616766']
1) Probably true.
2) False. A casual conversation was had and some of NpO's potential enemies were mentioned. Lennox volunteered to get screenshots. At no point was Lennox actually working for NpO.
3) True.
4) True.
5) He accepted the materials and admits doing so, "gladly" and "happy" are your words.

It proves that Dajobo should have offered to resign, that resignation should have been accepted, and Dajobo suffer consequences. It does not prove the incompetence of the entirety of NpO's leadership.

One piece you also omitted: Lennox was working for VE the entire time, likely even before Dajobo was contacted originally. Thus the entire thing was a VE trap that Dajobo fell in to and it cost Polaris a war.

Enjoy your Stockholm Syndrome.
[/quote]

Thanks to Hal for the salvo to an obvious cowards rendition of the events. Kindly remove the NpO from your profile alliance affiliation as well wke, u don't deserve the honor.

[Monster]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1296694849' post='2616766']

One piece you also omitted: Lennox was working for VE the entire time, likely even before Dajobo was contacted originally. Thus the entire thing was a VE trap that Dajobo fell in to and it cost Polaris a war.

Enjoy your Stockholm Syndrome.
[/quote]

Nice conjecture here.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295568645' post='2587425']
[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1295485332' post='2584597']
[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1295468660' post='2584160']
End the Orders forever.
[/quote]
WotC & Karma were far too lenient. These mistakes must be rectified.
[/quote]
Don't worry, it will happen, but no need to rush. Besides, it's easier to take them one at a time.
[/quote]

Don't disappoint.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1296697528' post='2616824']
Don't disappoint.
[/quote]

I'll try not to but I should correct my post. While my statement clearly said "Orders" I really cant say I consider NpO one of the "Orders" anymore. To me, when I say the Orders I will always mean the force that tried to manipulate the entire planet, kill us and hold us under permanent war. That evil force is still very much alive in NPO and a little in NSO as well, However, I don't associate that with Polar at all. I know some of you guys really dislike Polar and your reasons may be valid (I don't know) but I have to say I am pretty much indifferent to them. My propensity to bunch them together with their dysfunctional in-laws is due to a failure on my part to see past my admittedly 4 year old viewpoint and the fact that their flag just reminds me too damn much of NPOs and I respond automatically.

While we are currently on opposite sides of the (combined) war map, we aren't enemies. FAN and Polar buried the hatchet many moons ago.

Sorry.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1296695732' post='2616783']
Nice conjecture here.
[/quote]

If only it were pure conjecture...but it's not and we both know it.

[Roi Loup]

[quote name='wke235' timestamp='1296693543' post='2616748']
Polaris used to be a honorable and grand alliance. But as past and current actions show, the leadership has become corrupt, more concerned with their own well being than the alliance, and very willing to compromise the alliances principles if it meets their goals. That's why I'm proud to be a PB POW right now. When I'm lied to right to my face, I had no choice.
[/quote]

if they were only so concerned with their own well being then this mistake wouldnt have happened anyways

please keep rationalizing your reasons for ditching the to keep infra though. whatever suits your own well being

[uaciaut]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1295323532' post='2579944']

3. I see that the truly clueless from MK continue to fail to understand the game.
[/quote]


You should teach us then, i mean it's not like your achievements don't speak highly enough of you as it is.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1296712053' post='2617247']
Sorry.
[/quote]

Well, 2/3 aint bad

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1295485332' post='2584597']
WotC & Karma were far too lenient. These mistakes must be rectified.
[/quote]
Agreed completely. Burn, baby, burn

[MrMuz]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1296695398' post='2616775']
One thing Polaris never does is lie to you. You are perhaps just too simple to understand what you are being told. Hug those pixels comrade, they keep you warm at night in that cold friendless world out there.
[/quote]

Well, that settles it, I see the big picture now. Polaris has [i]never lied[/i]. Everyone claiming to have been betrayed or lied to by Polaris is just envious of the New Polar Order's dedication to justice and fabricated slander against them.

I see now how this was an unjust war, caused by lies from PB leadership, which I was too simple to comprehend. You will have my resignation as soon as I receive Polar's individual surrender terms.