A joint R&R/AiD/Echelon Announcement....

[Raffaello]

I'm not sure why people are faulting UINE for offering rogue elements to ZI. Good show to all alliances involved.


[quote name='Anson' timestamp='1294142782' post='2563014']
GOOOOOOOD Morning Cybernations! Don't cha just LOVE napalm? I know I do!

Um... yes, Ego worked out and finally I think UINE will get what is needed. And once again, i offer my apologies to CN for being associated with them.

Also, I believe that in this case, UINE is the collective of all members, gov, and that silly dictator sitting atop his Imperial Throne. If a UINE member doesn't like their gov leader(s), they need to either do something, or face consequences of their leader(s) mistakes.
[/quote]
Your continued posts in this thread do nothing but make you look childish and petty.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Anson' timestamp='1294130951' post='2562929']
I was the Minister of Finance for UINE at the time of the talks of reps. I planned out with our banks how to make payments of aid. Keve found out, and well, lets just say he was less than happy. Also, everyone, just an FYI: Keve first negotiated with AiD that they would do tech deals... thus benefiting UINE. This clearly shows that Keve was all to accepting of these events. Additional attacks ensued, and I was asked to step in since there was no other gov willing to get involved. Big-Joe was online, as was MajorLu (MoD and Trium respectively),

After hearing everything, I started making preparations to get them paid promptly. Notice how I am GSO now an not UINE? I didnt appreciate Keve's written abuse, so I resigned to form GSO. Their current Minister of Finance had no clue what to do, so asked me for some advise and a little guidance (Keve was too busy doing other things, I guess, and couldn't be bothered to help his MoF help UINE). I provided him a link to the calendar that I had prepared to make sure that UINE's banks knew what to do.

This now happening means that UINE government has failed to act.

And dont forget, Keve first tried to argue that these "rogues" were not on UINE's forums (this is complete heresay, I do admit). Does that not show an admission of guilt on his part? I dont know about you all.. but this is looking worse and worse for UINE. I do need to apologize to the international community, though. I made a poor choice in which alliance I called home. There are many other wonderful alliances that would have been better. Ah well.. GSO is my home now.

o/ R&R, Echelon, AiD, and anyone who says UINE needs rolling.
[/quote]


[quote name='Anson' timestamp='1294142782' post='2563014']
GOOOOOOOD Morning Cybernations! Don't cha just LOVE napalm? I know I do!

Um... yes, Ego worked out and finally I think UINE will get what is needed. And once again, i offer my apologies to CN for being associated with them.

Also, I believe that in this case, UINE is the collective of all members, gov, and that silly dictator sitting atop his Imperial Throne. If a UINE member doesn't like their gov leader(s), they need to either do something, or face consequences of their leader(s) mistakes.
[/quote]

The fact that you try to underscore everything you say with UINE's flaws not only makes your point painfully biased and worthless, but ultimately makes you look like the bigger d-bag.

We get it; you used to be in UINE, now you're not. "[i]i offer my apologies to CN for being associated with them.[/i]" Nobody gives a !@#$ and nobody even knows who you are except for maybe people in UINE and I guess whoever is in GSO (I sure as hell never heard of them before). Shut up already and move on with your life.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

keve, you dun goofed again

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1294162563' post='2563178']
This is absolutely ridiculous. This situation was resolved on Sunday night and the only ones who have been pressing for more have been RnR and Echelon. I do not understand why this thread is necessary at all, because I do not make a thread on the OWF every time Polaris goes after a rogue or two. The situation that has happened here is really very simple:

1. 5 UINE nations attack AiD
2. UINE and AiD agree to reps, nations told to cease attacks
3. Reps were not delivered, attacks continued, thus, these nations are rogues.

Someone please explain to me why a) this thread is necessary, and b) exactly where UINE was in the wrong here.
[/quote]

This seems like it happened so long ago, but it was my understanding that it happened that a few UINE nations attacked AiD, AiD contacted UINE, and some reps were agreed to. In the wake of this agreement, even more members of UINE attacked AiD, and several of these UINE nations attacking AiD were former government members, no less.

UINE tells AiD flat up that theres no money for reps, and just wants white peace. I haven't heard much more, but obviously UINE tried to play cards of indifference and aggression, cards which they didn't have room for in their deck.

I'm hard-pressed to say I like UINE, I'm even further hard-pressed to say that they didn't act like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off in dealing with this.

[youwish959]

The hypocrisy in here is astounding. R&R stated that UINE leadership refused reparations; we have all seen this before, except that R&R had not even attempted diplomacy back in August. It is quite astounding to see such blatant hypocrisy be displayed, yet no one catch on.

I guess though that an alliance's character is shown when they don't have the backing of some massive coalition.

[The Warrior]

Best of luck R&R! Much love.

[Keve69]

Ok, I think it is time to set a few things straight here...

There is no mis-education involved here. Those 5 nations knew blatently well what they were doing from day 1. They told me face to face that they knew UINE's raid policy (in fact one of them had participated in writing it months prior) and that they willingly chose to ignore it. In my book that qualifies them as rogues, as per our raiding policy through such actions they open themselves up to any and all repercussions by those they hit.

Now, from day 1 I gave AiD the opportunity to hit these nations, as I believe they were well in the right to do so. However, AiD was practical about it and wanted a quick end to the conflict possibly involving reps for their nations. Our 5 nations told me again face to face that they would rather face ZI than give any amount of reps, that was their choice and they knew exactly what they were doing. Now, this action was not sanctioned or organized by UINE so their was no way I was going to force other nations, who had not commited any wrongs, to pay for the actions of the few. Since AiD was still not interested in ZI (or following a military solution) I did what I could to help them out and we came to an agreement. 1) I would would get all nations to peace. 2) I would post a public apology. 3) Since UINE was not at fault, but some members who were deliberately doing something they knew was wrong, I offered to fill the slots of the affected AiD nations with tech deals to help them cope with their loses (which were minor after only 1 night of attacks). People question the morality of tech deals as 'reps'. However, this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. These tech deals were not 'reps' as the alliance here was not at fault. These tech deals were me doing my best to help the 4 affected AiD nations. To think this was done for profit is simply silly. UINE has more than enough buyers within its own AA and to think that I was doing this to somehow benefit the few smaller guys who would send AiD the tech is to be completely ignorant of the value of tech vs money or of the quantity of potential buyers which exist around CN. As far as I am concerned I had met AiD's desire to bring the conflict to its resolution and since the rogues were unwilling to pay for a situation they created by their own hand, I did what I could to help AiD and those which were targeted.

Let me be blatantly clear here, theres a difference between someone doing something they are unaware of, doing something wrong by accident or even because they were not educated properly. But when someone does something knowingly of the consequences AND is not willing to pay for their mistakes its a completely different matter. There is no comparaison between the two.

Now, theres been talk in this thread of '6 million' dollars of reps. Once again, these are numbers invented by the peanut gallery and they have nothing to do with reality. The actual amount of reps that was thrown around was much more than 6 million, and execuse me, but there was no way a responsible alliance leader would let innocent nations fork that sum over for nations who ignored the guidelines and who weren't willing to dish over anything for a situation of their own making. If select members are not willing to cooperate then I'm not going to force others to take the responsibility for the actions of the few, that's basic commonsense.

UINE has always been willing to deal with mistakes genuinely made by newer members or even mistakes made by the government. However, we have always taken a harsh stance against rogues on our AA or the AA of others. This involves, and has always involved, letting the other AA deal with the nation(s) as they see fit. This was not a case were such mistake was made and thus the cost of taking responsibility for it should not fall on the membership at large.

For now that is all, I'll answer any questions of course...


*Edit* Typo

Edited January 4, 2011 by Keve69

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294124143' post='2562826']
[color="#0000FF"]This is underwhelming. I would have attacked all of UINE, but then again possessing gems of any sort is frowned upon these days. Unless you're only goal is to do make friends with everyone, never doing anything slightly provocative (or at all!), you do not belong at the helm of any alliance it seems. A pity really. To think that this one could have had potential, if only the parties on one end were less cowardly.[/color]
[/quote]
I can only agree with you, former victim of my bullying tendancies.

[Stealthkill]

lol at NSO thinking people care about their opinion.

[memoryproblems]

Keve69, I've only got a few questions, but I can definately respect your stance and your response to this thread, although I do think it would have been better had you agreed to find a way for some reparations to be sent and then deal with those who violated the policies internally.

1) Are those members who attacked AiD at this time members of UINE, or have they since left or been expelled?
2) Do you have any idea why they would violate the UINE raiding policy to attack an alliance that had clearly publicized defense treaties? Did they have some sort of disagreement with AiD?

[Toshiro Hitsugaya]

Keve69, Emperor of UINE. I also have a few questions.

1. Even though big-joe your Minister of Defense knew what was going on, but did not go to AiD or to you or to anyone else about it, why hasn't anything been done about that? or will there be something done about that?

2. You continue to say that it as not UINE's fault, however those members are part of UINE, and as far as I know are still in the AA so in the case who's fault is it?


Thanks Keve, that is all.

[Magion]

Roll 'em real good RnR

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1294176211' post='2563399']
lol at NSO thinking people care about their opinion.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Considering how testy you fellows get whenever I make even the smallest commentary it would appear that my opinion means a great deal to you.[/color]

[Stealthkill]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294178575' post='2563458']
[color="#0000FF"]Considering how testy you fellows get whenever I make even the smallest commentary it would appear that my opinion means a great deal to you.[/color]
[/quote]
Meh, some people just have a low tolerance for uninformed trolls getting their nose where it's not wanted and spouting things without knowing all the information (or in this case, barely any). Especially when said troll is just spouting his side's line and making ridiculous assumptions based on arguments and comparisons that are both illogical and quite frankly, stupid.

[Mark Ashton]

[quote]2. You continue to say that it as not UINE's fault, however those members are part of UINE, and as far as I know are still in the AA so in the case who's fault is it?


Thanks Keve, that is all.
[/quote]

I do not want to interrupt your "argument", but I think the second point has been made clear. It's the fault of the declaring nations. They are rogues and ghosts at the same time. You have that hundreds of times in the Cyberverse and usually it doesn't qualify for a thread on these Forums.

You cannot blame UINE for ex-Members that are ghosting the Alliance and commit crimes against other alliances.

Edit: Forum tags

Edited January 6, 2011 by Mark Ashton

[AmbroseIV]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1294163014' post='2563185']
So 2 days' worth of attacks isn't worth a ZI, but 1 extra attack is? I like your shades of grey, sir.
[/quote]
I'm gonna level with you hizzy - we've got 9 members left in our alliance, most in the mid-to-low range. We quite obviously don't have unlimited resources and I would have loved to just be compensated, but the closest we were ever going to get to that was buying 2000 tech off UINE at the going rate of 3mil./100 tech (I think you call those tech deals, not reparations)

UINE leadership has taken no responsibility for their members (for rogues they're all still masked and in the AA) but they were all straight away offered for ZI, so I don't think it's a grey area. In fact, it's pretty black and white - four of the five raiders were shown leniency above what their government requested to get out of reps, while the one nation who had to be an asshat about it will be punished in accordance with typical treatment of rogues.

Where's the problem?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Keve69' timestamp='1294175854' post='2563386']
snip
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing this up Keve

tl;dr some UINE members [i]knowingly [/i]made their bed, and now they need to lay in it.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1294179356' post='2563473']
Meh, some people just have a low tolerance for uninformed trolls getting their nose where it's not wanted and spouting things without knowing all the information (or in this case, barely any). Especially when said troll is just spouting his side's line and making ridiculous assumptions based on arguments and comparisons that are both illogical and quite frankly, stupid.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So, simply saying I would have handled things differently in your position makes me uninformed? How does that work exactly?[/color]

[Stealthkill]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294181182' post='2563508']
[color="#0000FF"]So, simply saying I would have handled things differently in your position makes me uninformed? How does that work exactly?[/color]
[/quote]
Oh no, of course not. However, the point is that the information you have currently is far less than what the R&R leadership has, and your judgment is inadequate in comparison as a result.

[Avakael]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294162847' post='2563182']
[color="#0000FF"]Well, when even GOD likes NpO I can only imagine that SF has some interest in cooperation, however temporary it may prove to be. But please, continue to deny the obvious. Not only is your alliance led by meek cowards, but you also clearly do not have the authority to start your own wars. So, which alliance really is running the show over there?[/color]
[/quote]

Nobody said we had to cooperate with GOD.

Please, continue to abuse our triumvirates. /Me claps hands and giggles

Keve: The 6 million dollar thing is actually R&R insulting NSO.

All of NSO: I think this phrase is overrused, but all I can say is that if you don't like it, do something about it. Like what we are. All I can see is you hating on what we -have- done.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Stealthkill' timestamp='1294181899' post='2563524']
Oh no, of course not. However, the point is that the information you have currently is far less than what the R&R leadership has, and your judgment is inadequate in comparison as a result.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, you're just timid and afraid to do anything that might provoke a negative response. Try to justify it as you will, but you cannot make up for your own inadequacies.[/color]

[EvilCam]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1294176663' post='2563417']
Keve69, I've only got a few questions, but I can definately respect your stance and your response to this thread, although I do think it would have been better had you agreed to find a way for some reparations to be sent and then deal with those who violated the policies internally.

1) Are those members who attacked AiD at this time members of UINE, or have they since left or been expelled?
2) Do you have any idea why they would violate the UINE raiding policy to attack an alliance that had clearly publicized defense treaties? Did they have some sort of disagreement with AiD?
[/quote]

Excellent questions. I was just about to ask them myself.

[western skier]

UINE is a sinking ship, and I know since I was a govt member a year ago. I recently rejoined and quickly found out that the UINE govt is made up of inexperienced, arrogant, inactive members. UINE govt is not open to ideas or suggestions to grow or to improve. Lazy describes the govt best. Inactivity is very high, and ideas to improve it are quickly dismissed by the gov members. The UINE can be best described as a sinking ship.


When I was there, the future looked very bright for UINE. It's amazing how a couple members leaving can sink a entire AA.

Edited January 6, 2011 by western skier

[Stealthkill]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294183270' post='2563555']
[color="#0000FF"]No, you're just timid and afraid to do anything that might provoke a negative response. Try to justify it as you will, but you cannot make up for your own inadequacies.[/color]
[/quote]
Oh hot damn RV, I never knew you had mind reading powers. Explains oh so much.

[Toshiro Hitsugaya]

[quote name='western skier' timestamp='1294189998' post='2563687']
UINE is a sinking ship, and I know since I was a govt member a year ago. I recently rejoined and quickly found out that the UINE govt is made up of inexperienced, arrogant, inactive members. UINE govt is not open to ideas or suggestions to grow or to improve. Lazy describes the govt best. Inactivity is very high, and ideas to improve it are quickly dismissed by the gov members. The UINE can be best described as a sinking ship.
[/quote]

I wonder why majority of the active productive government has all left to GSO. Perhaps you explain it best Western.