The Opening of Pandora's Box

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1286902635' post='2482565']
This particular post was done that way for a few reasons. They all happened to work perfectly, as expected. I am sorry some of you can't grasp the why and the how, you'll get there one day.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You know you have leaks, and you know of at least one means of them getting out to the public. Like any power structure that concerns you, in much the same way Blackstone and Vox bothered the NPO. While you may mock it and joke about it, at the end of the day you aren't all to thrilled about your secrets getting out. Knowing that you can't stop all leaks, you can at very least disseminate misinformation and ultimately discredit the medium in which the leaks come out. It is not a permanent fix, nor even a perfect one, but it will work well enough for the time being.

Let me just say that you and your fellows in the Box have more in common with the NPO's reign than you care to admit. You can deny it all you want saying you aren't committing senseless curb stomps every other week, which I will agree is true, but ultimately the stagnation you create for your own security is just as detrimental as anything the NPO ever did. Sooner or later this will be coming to end as well. I look forward to that day.[/color]

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286902172' post='2482558']
I didn't say it's not allowed, I just said that your methods make you look like children. Which they do.

I also implied that they aren't as clever as you think they are. And they really stopped being funny after the first few times.
[/quote]
You could just take it in good humour and move on, you know. Much like the subjects of the joke did.

[mrwuss]

MK veto'd GOONS joining the Bloc.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Kindom of Goon' timestamp='1286902746' post='2482567']
Will be interesting to see what the purpose of this bloc is.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]A bloc such as this exists only to challenge the current power structure, or to maintain it. Considering the more than friendly ties this bloc has to key players in SF, CnG, and elsewhere, I'd lean towards the later. To be honest, the only thing that has changed in the world has been a marginalization of the former BLEU sphere, and of STA, both of which have been full of decent alliances trying to restrain some of the less savory activities of certain alliances in the current power structure who believe that they have a God-given right to do as they please, and that no one should be allowed to stand in their way.

PZI, increasing the number of nations needed for an alliance to become an "alliance," curb stomping those they dislike with increasingly shabby CBs, etc. These are the things certain parties would have liked to do with the power they grabbed from the NPO, but couldn't do to others having a fundamental disagreement with that line of thought. Ultimately, however, it seems that decency did not prevail after all.[/color]

[Leet Guy]

I'm seriously laughing at the number of people who seem to know more about how MK and VE run our respective alliances than even we the leaders do.

[Aurion]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1286903074' post='2482574']
You have your "reasons", and you think their great, but you won't share them, then you mock the person who disagrees with you. You're not full of cleverness, you're full of hubris.

It if the screenshots are a ruse, then why did you make out VE as refusing your entry, make yourselves out to be untrustworthy, and are denying it now?
[/quote]

Frankly, you're an idiot for believing much of anything that comes from WFCN.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Aurion

[fant0m]

I can't wait until CoJ and co roll us.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286904191' post='2482590']
[color="#0000FF"] curb stomping those they dislike with increasingly shabby CBs, etc. [/color]
[/quote]
Don't lie, there is no way you typed that with a straight face.

[potato]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286903860' post='2482585']
[color="#0000FF"]You know you have leaks, and you know of at least one means of them getting out to the public. Like any power structure that concerns you, in much the same way Blackstone and Vox bothered the NPO. While you may mock it and joke about it, at the end of the day you aren't all to thrilled about your secrets getting out. Knowing that you can't stop all leaks, you can at very least disseminate misinformation and ultimately discredit the medium in which the leaks come out. It is not a permanent fix, nor even a perfect one, but it will work well enough for the time being.

Let me just say that you and your fellows in the Box have more in common with the NPO's reign than you care to admit. You can deny it all you want saying you aren't committing senseless curb stomps every other week, which I will agree is true, but ultimately the stagnation you create for your own security is just as detrimental as anything the NPO ever did. Sooner or later this will be coming to end as well. I look forward to that day.[/color]
[/quote]

RV, my old friend, you know there's more than meet the eye. Think about it for a bit, I'm sure you're smart enough to find out what's [b]really[/b] up. But, no, "spies" and leaks aren't our greatest concern.

With that said, I'll remind you I'm not in PB and, to be honest, I never denied any similarity with NPO. Nor do I really care if anyone compared MK (and certainly not PB since, again, we're not in it) to them. It doesn't insult me in any way: I may not be Pacifica's biggest fan but the way they kept their #1 spot for so long is something that can only be respected. Even if they did play dirty now and then. I also do hope someone forms some sort of opposition to my supposed side. You could and should be part of it but, in my opinion (and I know you'll agree), you don't have the brains on your side to mount to anything: look at the logs from #stratego...

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' timestamp='1286903942' post='2482587']
You could just take it in good humour and move on, you know. Much like the subjects of the joke did.
[/quote]The people who told the joke are mocking the subjects of it. And granted, there will always be suckers for such nonsense, but it doesn't really make it funny to anyone besides yourselves. It stopped being funny a while ago, now it's more annoying than anything. Especially when you can only draw a response by poorly hinting at the 'joke' several times first, and then you proceed to mock anyone who bothers to respond to your 'hints.'

[Solaris]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286904642' post='2482600']
The people who told the joke are mocking the subjects of it. And granted, there will always be suckers for such nonsense, but it doesn't really make it funny to anyone besides yourselves. It stopped being funny a while ago, now it's more annoying than anything. Especially when you can only draw a response by poorly hinting at the 'joke' several times first, and then you proceed to mock anyone who bothers to respond to your 'hints.'
[/quote]It's only annoying to those who take outlandish stuff from WFCN seriously.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1286904254' post='2482591']
I'm seriously laughing at the number of people who seem to know more about how MK and VE run our respective alliances than even we the leaders do.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Please do not even try to pretend that you are ignorant of how your own alliance operates. It just doesn't reflect well on you.

Anyway, I will concede to part of your point, in that no one outside your little clique knows exactly [i]what[/i] you're doing. Joining a bloc, signing a treaty, canceling one, rolling someone, etc... Those are all facts and events which cannot be predicted without some sort of information or knowing. However, understanding how an alliance operates, and being able to understand where it is going and why it is doing what it does, well my friend, the requires little more than a basic knowledge of human psychology and sociology. And frankly my friend, whatever system you have, it is not so unique or special that it has not been studied already in some form or another, or can be explained using an existing model or theory.

Say what you will of me, but I understand human nature quite well.[/color]

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1286904440' post='2482596']
Don't lie, there is no way you typed that with a straight face.
[/quote]Are you implying it's not true?

Where were you for TPF and NSO?

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286904642' post='2482600']
The people who told the joke are mocking the subjects of it.[/quote]
Yes, that would be the definition of a joke.

[quote]
And granted, there will always be suckers for such nonsense, but it doesn't really make it funny to anyone besides yourselves. It stopped being funny a while ago, now it's more annoying than anything. Especially when you can only draw a response by poorly hinting at the 'joke' several times first, and then you proceed to mock anyone who bothers to respond to your 'hints.'
[/quote]
I'm not going to argue with you about our methodologies and/or why it is or isn't funny. What I do find funny is the fact that you're making a mountain out of a molehill, given that it's over something that was all in fun and didn't involve you in the slightest.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286904817' post='2482605']
Are you implying it's not true?

Where were you for TPF and NSO?
[/quote]
Please tell me how the NSO conflict was like nocb.

Anyway I was referring more to the irony of him dealing with such people in the #strategos logs.

[King Louis the II]

I wish luck and prosperity to all Pandora box alliances,

All the best for our great umbrella friends.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1286893951' post='2482396']
Now I wait to see if the opposition can form anything remotely intelligent that holds any resemblance to a counter balance. If what I think will happen happens this move may just disprove realist theory on Planet Bob.
[/quote]
Would you let them or would they be crushed at the slightest hint of a conversation regarding such a thing being mooted? With most of the world and the big 3 blocs of PB/C&G/SF all on the same side of the world a proper opposition is obviously not something thats wanted. After 18 months of inaction & curbstomps it looks like another 18 months of inaction & curbstomps is on the cards unless the three blocs question and their respective entourages part ways. The losers in the last war six months ago are still under terms so you should get back to reality and realise there will be no opposition to this super bloc of three blocs.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1286904749' post='2482602']
It's only annoying to those who take outlandish stuff from WFCN seriously.
[/quote]No, as I said, it's annoying because you have to hint at it here in public in order for anyone to consider taking the bait anymore. Even the suckers are growing wise to your antics, which have become old and stale. And when you finally do get someone to take the bait, you instantly act like it came straight from that site and you haven't been hinting at it for the last three pages, and then you snicker to yourselves. It really does make you look like simple minded children.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1286904440' post='2482596']
Don't lie, there is no way you typed that with a straight face.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'll admit, [i]shotty[/i] would have been a choicer word than [i]shabby[/i]. But my point remains. Power does a funny thing to that people that wield it. If they come from humble beginnings, it is soon forgotten and ignored, and they soon take up the ways of the powerful persons whom they once resented. They also tend to become hypocritical, and believe themselves to not only be above the rules, but also exempt from them.

I am sure you're familiar with the fact that your friend PC has a tendency to raid protectorates. Mainly those of Echelon. Although they do not do it on a daily basis, or even monthly, when they know they can get away with it they do it without hesitation. I expect that this new bloc will allow them to get away with many things more often.[/color]

[Solaris]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286905149' post='2482612']
No, as I said, it's annoying because you have to hint at it here in public in order for anyone to consider taking the bait anymore. Even the suckers are growing wise to your antics, which have become old and stale. And when you finally do get someone to take the bait, you instantly act like it came straight from that site and you haven't been hinting at it for the last three pages, and then you snicker to yourselves. It really does make you look like simple minded children.
[/quote]Don't be a player hater.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286903860' post='2482585']
[color="#0000FF"]You know you have leaks, and you know of at least one means of them getting out to the public. Like any power structure that concerns you, in much the same way Blackstone and Vox bothered the NPO. While you may mock it and joke about it, at the end of the day you aren't all to thrilled about your secrets getting out. Knowing that you can't stop all leaks, you can at very least disseminate misinformation and ultimately discredit the medium in which the leaks come out. It is not a permanent fix, nor even a perfect one, but it will work well enough for the time being.[/color][/quote]

It was a ruse, something both MK and VE leadership knew about. Rely on it.
[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286903860' post='2482585']
[color="#0000FF"]Let me just say that you and your fellows in the Box have more in common with the NPO's reign than you care to admit. You can deny it all you want saying you aren't committing senseless curb stomps every other week, which I will agree is true, but ultimately the stagnation you create for your own security is just as detrimental as anything the NPO ever did. Sooner or later this will be coming to end as well. I look forward to that day.[/color]
[/quote]

So you're saying PB is bad because it is going to stagnate CN, then one sentence later you say that it will come to an end someday, which means it will bring excitement. Pick your argument, because for the past few weeks it's given people stuff to talk about that actually is interesting.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286904191' post='2482590']
[color="#0000FF"]PZI, increasing the number of nations needed for an alliance to become an "alliance," curb stomping those they dislike with increasingly shabby CBs, etc.[/color]
[/quote]
These are all things our enemies are doing, not the other way around. Oh, and demanding unreasonable reps and planting dummy alliances as traps.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1286905129' post='2482609']
Please tell me how the NSO conflict was like nocb.

Anyway I was referring more to the irony of him dealing with such people in the #strategos logs.
[/quote]It wasn't, the alliances who declared on Polaris in that war had much more valid reasons for doing so. I don't recall you being around for that, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, I believe the [i]casus belli[/i] against Polaris remains one of the most valid causes for war that history has ever seen.

'NoCB' is a misnomer, because the main show was the coalition vs. BLEU, not GGA's little side project, which admittedly was stupid. The whole war was renamed post-Karma as a propaganda tool to demonize NPO, to provide a moral contrast to excuse yourselves from the acts which you commit.

As for the logs and the plotting of war, it would have been a great challenge for us to create a conflict that wouldn't have resulted in us receiving the curbie, and as such there is no parallel to a large well-connected coalition smashing an isolated alliance with little to no good reasoning. I joined that channel with the expectation of a losing war. I am still expecting to get a curbie down the line, for daring to address a problem.

[NLights]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286905571' post='2482618']
It was a ruse, something both MK and VE leadership knew about. Rely on it.


So you're saying PB is bad because it is going to stagnate CN, then one sentence later you say that it will come to an end someday, which means it will bring excitement. Pick your argument, because for the past few weeks it's given people stuff to talk about that actually is interesting.
[/quote]

Yes, we're all very excited to wait a year plus for a month of excitement before people start complaining about being in war. Then 6 month to year long reps will be placed on a side and we'll be very excited to wait another year and then...

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286905571' post='2482618']
It was a ruse, something both MK and VE leadership knew about. Rely on it.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]That is exactly what I said. Misinformation, ruse... It is all the quite same thing really.[/color]

[quote]So you're saying PB is bad because it is going to stagnate CN, then one sentence later you say that it will come to an end someday, which means it will bring excitement. Pick your argument, because for the past few weeks it's given people stuff to talk about that actually is interesting.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'd say the year of stagnation, at the very least, caused by Pandora's very existance will not easily be counteracted by the few months, at the very most, caused by its fall. While the inevitable collapse will be a brief spark, it is a long, long, long way away. I doubt you'll find many who will agree that it is worth months of waiting. No, what we're more likely to have is at least a year of nothingness and political stagnation, with a few curb stomps thrown in here and there, mixed with more nothingness. In other words, a Pax Pandora.[/color]

Edited October 12, 2010 by Rebel Virginia