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The Opening of Pandora's Box

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SirWilliam Enthusiast

SirWilliam

Posted
Posted (edited)

[quote name='Iserlohn' timestamp='1287088580' post='2484656']
I forget who said it, but I'm partial to "Supergayvances", myself.
[/quote]

That makes two of us. :awesome:

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1287083638' post='2484597']
Even with your emphasis on the word only, fulfillment of military obligations is a pretty massively huge part of being an ally.
[/quote]

I wasn't disputing that (which probably wasn't real clear since I avoided equally verbose responses). What I'm disputing is that ODN's actions in years past makes them a less than desirable ally in the present, and that the circumstances of their most recent military involvement (where they were the ones getting declared on and not the ones having to answer the call of allies) does little to vindicate them (seeing as how they conducted themselves very well, with fervor and without seeking easy outs, carrying their weight and doing more for the war effort than most).

Edited by SirWilliam
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Felix von Agnu Newbie

Felix von Agnu

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Posted

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1287073535' post='2484491']
I think in general, attempting to USE a peripheral ally in a (albeit stupidly) misguided attempt to try to force a bloc of alliances down a particular path, is a VERY good CB. The problem is with the rest of the world, not with me. The problem with this world is that EVERYONE is scared to so much as sneeze due to political fallout, and NOBODY every acts to safeguard their soverignty 1st. Everyone cries and cries 'Wahhhhh my soveriegnty." But NOBODY will act to protect that soveriegnty unless a calculator tells them they will win. So, YES, i think my CB would have been solid. And NO, the problem isnt with me, it is with everyone else.
[/quote]
Sometimes political fallout happens for a reason, like a poor CB. If ODN is sovereign, they can tell UPN off if they don't want to be in any conflict they create. Hell, ODN acted against UPN's sovereignty as well. Are you saying you would agree with such a CB?

Also, the reason people don't act unless they think/know they will win is blindingly simple. You attack and lose, you are in a far worse spot than before, and you have fewer means to protect your sovereignty.

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Delta1212 Newbie

Delta1212

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[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287089670' post='2484667']
That makes two of us. :awesome:



I wasn't disputing that (which probably wasn't real clear since I avoided equally verbose responses). What I'm disputing is that ODN's actions in years past makes them a less than desirable ally in the present, and that the circumstances of their most recent military involvement (where they were the ones getting declared on and not the ones having to answer the call of allies) does little to vindicate them (seeing as how they conducted themselves very well, with fervor and without seeking easy outs, carrying their weight and doing more for the war effort than most).
[/quote]
I understood your point, but the way you were attempting to make it simply didn't work.

Let's say I have an ally who used to have an atrocious military but has spent the last year reorganizing and training and now has an incredibly impressive fighting force but hasn't gotten a chance to show it. If my defense of them consisted of the sarcastic remark that "Yeah, because a terrible military record [I]really[/I] makes you bad fighters." I would expect to get laughed at. It might technically be true that that is not always the case, as evidenced by the specific situation I was referring to, but in the vast majority of cases it is absolutely true, which effectively undermines any point to be made by apparently ridiculing the idea.

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SirWilliam Enthusiast

SirWilliam

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Posted

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1287092954' post='2484700']
I understood your point, but the way you were attempting to make it simply didn't work.

Let's say I have an ally who used to have an atrocious military but has spent the last year reorganizing and training and now has an incredibly impressive fighting force but hasn't gotten a chance to show it. If my defense of them consisted of the sarcastic remark that "Yeah, because a terrible military record [I]really[/I] makes you bad fighters." I would expect to get laughed at. It might technically be true that that is not always the case, as evidenced by the specific situation I was referring to, but in the vast majority of cases it is absolutely true, which effectively undermines any point to be made by apparently ridiculing the idea.
[/quote]

Seeing as how you misinterpret what I said with your analogy (which isn't comparable), I'm not so sure you do. :P

As I've been maintaining ODN [i]has[/i] had a chance to show its military capabilities and character (just not in the manner in which some hold meritorious, which seems to be the point of contention here).

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Kowalski Newbie

Kowalski

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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1287074256' post='2484497']
The discussions in this thread are an excellent representation of just how much the political aspect of the Cyberverse has become an utter, utter joke. It's comical.
[/quote]
The discussions in nearly every thread are excellent representations of just how much the political aspect of the Cyberverse have become an utter, utter joke.

Edited by Kowalski
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Delta1212 Newbie

Delta1212

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[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287093809' post='2484710']
Seeing as how you misinterpret what I said with your analogy (which isn't comparable), I'm not so sure you do. :P

As I've been maintaining ODN [i]has[/i] had a chance to show its military capabilities and character (just not in the manner in which some hold meritorious, which seems to be the point of contention here).
[/quote]
The whole reason I used military coordination as an analogy is that it wasn't directly what your statement was about. You mocked the idea that historical fulfillment of military obligations is the only thing that makes a good ally. It is accurate to say that many other things do come into play, but fulfilling those obligations is still a [i]necessary[/i] quality of a good ally, or you aren't really allies. ODN may very well have made leaps and bounds of progress, but that doesn't make the strategy of acting like a statement that isn't applicable in the particular case you are talking about is universally false when in the overwhelming majority of other cases it is completely accurate any better.

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SirWilliam Enthusiast

SirWilliam

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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287106930' post='2484893']
[color="#0000FF"]I can only wonder which alliance will be joining this bloc next? MK? GOD? Who knows?[/color]
[/quote]

Rumor mill is saying it may be NSO. I'm not so sure however...

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Penkala Newbie

Penkala

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Posted

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287106930' post='2484893']
[color="#0000FF"]I can only wonder which alliance will be joining this bloc next? MK? GOD? Who knows?[/color]
[/quote]

Thanks for breaking the news that GOD, too, is leaving SF :mad:

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Jay Z Newbie

Jay Z

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Posted

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287106930' post='2484893']
[color="#0000FF"]I can only wonder which alliance will be joining this bloc next? MK? GOD? Who knows?[/color]
[/quote]

[img]http://i53.tinypic.com/2qlyam1.jpg[/img]

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Midkn1ght Newbie

Midkn1ght

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Posted

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1287111253' post='2484949']
[img]http://i53.tinypic.com/2qlyam1.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Mixed drink out the nose, thanks. And GOD ain't going nowhere =P Much as we enjoy our allies who are already in the bloc, we're tight with our own Friends chillin.

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Penkala Newbie

Penkala

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Posted

[quote name='Louis Balfour' timestamp='1287112025' post='2484963']
When are you going to let MK join? We're getting tired of Bansky and their diplomats moping around our forums and asking if we hid their invite.
[/quote]

When are you going to tell them you hid their invite in the fridge?

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Steve Buscemi Newbie

Steve Buscemi

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1287107076' post='2484895']
Very nice artwork. I look forward to seeing what a world under you will look like. Somehow I doubt we will see a period of [s]peace[/s] old grudge curbstomps each month like Continuum ushered in.
[/quote]
Fixed it for ya!

Edited by Steve Buscemi
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AnCapistan Newbie

AnCapistan

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1287117481' post='2485038']
I suspect your "fixed" version is exactly what we're going to see.
[/quote]

Polaris shouldn't be lecturing anyone on old grudge curb stomps.

Not to mention that your point is ridiculous and has no evidence to support it.

Edited by Mr Damsky
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