What's the deal?

[Näktergal]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1286582843' post='2479219']
Pretty much this. Getting flamed on the OWF isn't [i]that[/i] scary, certainly not something that should put an alliance (and its MoFA, whose job it is) off posting.[/quote]
Whether or not it SHOULD scare any alliance out of posting and whether any given alliance feels they actually accomplish anything of substance by posting - and whether or not whatever they accomplish is even remotely worth the hassle - are two entirely different things.

This CDT issue obviously has its own unique spin (ie, it's already been said they wanted to get everything that needed to be done finished up before making anything official, and even from personal experience, it's worth noting that alliances and blocs that fall apart mostly due to apathy are going to be the LEAST likely people to bother announcing it anyway), but most of the alliances who seem to feel that the OWF has turned into a minefield with no worthwhile reason to bother enduring it also tend to feel that the "public information" aspect of their responsibility is completely fulfilled just by updating their treaty list on the Wiki. Which, like it or not, IS a way to get the same information out there without having to slog through the muck to do it.

And that's without even bothering to get into the question of just how much of the red tape and bureaucratic nonsense we all do on a regular basis is actually somehow fundamental to the political process, and how much of it is just the social contract we all came up with over the years, and entirely open to revision or reconsideration. There's very little that says we all HAVE to keep doing things the way we always have, simply because that's how we always did them.



[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1286582843' post='2479219']
And I don't really agree that things are much worse, either. The difference is that now we have two sides doing it, not one side doing it and one side too scared to poke their heads above the parapet and post at all, as was the case under the Initiative and the Continuum/One Vision hegemony.[/quote]
To be fair, we've ALWAYS had at least two sides doing it. There was a considerable period of time prior to the "hegemonic era" when people on both sides of the web were more than willing to mouth off, and even during that era, there were always people in opposition who were willing to voice their opinions (either because they had nothing to lose, or simply didn't care if they lost what they did have).

If anything, at least part of the problem seems that in the old days, there was at least SOME attempt to keep interaction somewhat diplomatic during peacetime, and most of the really vitrolic propaganda and abuse was saved for wars. But now, most people seem to be in a "wartime mentality" even when they're not at war.

Maybe it's just because we're all getting old and bitter. Maybe it's because most of the cooler heads have already long since been run off. Maybe it's because without a major threat to intimidate people, no one cares how abusive they might sound anymore. Maybe it's because people in general are starting to feel like caged rats with a flood coming. Or maybe it's just the natural evolution of a large socio-polititical collective over time, as old blood and old wounds keep being toxic with not enough new blood to help wash it away. Who knows?

But I'd definitely say the overall mood today is [i]much[/i] worse than it was in the past - even compared to times when the prevailing mentality was basically "Don't say anything too controversial or the boogeyman will come and get you in your sleep."



[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1286584606' post='2479238']
I don't think someone with a nation of a year in age should be able to comment on today's affairs if he is trying to imply that they were different 3 years ago.[/quote]
Is it okay if someone who's been playing for more than 4 years says the same thing, though?

[Joey67500]

[quote name='thaone' timestamp='1286621527' post='2479580']
Explain yourself on why you feel to good to make an announcement.
[/quote]


I've never thought myself too good to announce something. But I do believe that if things are not finalized than I shouldn't be announcing them. It is true that UPN withdrew from CDT. And while I cannot speak for the remaining members, but Menotah intends to maintain CDT, even if we're the only member.

[Dexomega]

[quote name='thaone' timestamp='1286621527' post='2479580']
Explain yourself on why you feel to good to make an announcement.
[/quote]
Alright, I'll explain the pretty much obvious.

A bunch of people decided to start spilling the beans before the announcement was supposed to be made. In fact there is still a discussion going on about the future of CDT, so why in the name of all things sane should we announce something still under discussion?

Until you get all the info, do NOT call us out. It makes everyone look stupid.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Dexomega' timestamp='1286650527' post='2479773']
Alright, I'll explain the pretty much obvious.

A bunch of people decided to start spilling the beans before the announcement was supposed to be made. In fact there is still a discussion going on about the future of CDT, so why in the name of all things sane should we announce something still under discussion?

Until you get all the info, do NOT call us out. It makes everyone look stupid.
[/quote]

But.. but.. Haflinger already congratulated Van Hoo on CDT's disbandment. Tell us the truth, it was Hoo right? I mean, it has to be him that disbanded your bloc. It has to be him, Van Hoo, the great disbander dude guy.

[Kongo Jack IV]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1286610082' post='2479523']
Agreed. Who are you to say it's over and all that, let's go back and start it up again.
[/quote]

Seems familiar?

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1286655887' post='2479821']
But.. but.. Haflinger already congratulated Van Hoo on CDT's disbandment. Tell us the truth, it was Hoo right? I mean, it has to be him that disbanded your bloc. It has to be him, Van Hoo, the great disbander dude guy.
[/quote]

Damn you RoK, when will your reign of terror finally come to an end?

[Valtamdraugr]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1286660445' post='2479871']
Damn you RoK, when will your reign of terror finally come to an end?
[/quote]
Soon.

[New Frontier]

And nothing of value was lost.

[Anu Drake]

The end of what was left of a shell of an idea that had come, passed and continued on without regard to expectations. It is like seeing the breakup of a band that we nurtured into existence but had replacement musicians constantly changing the overall sound of the group. Farewell, long, lost, failed ideas.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1286655887' post='2479821']
But.. but.. Haflinger already congratulated Van Hoo on CDT's disbandment. Tell us the truth, it was Hoo right? I mean, it has to be him that disbanded your bloc. It has to be him, Van Hoo, the great disbander dude guy.
[/quote]
Actually, the goal was to get UPN to leave CDT. As you should probably know.

[Ardus]

Maybe if you people would show even a modicum of patience we'd get more public announcements. The MK treaty cancellations were leaked while we were still trying to get cancellation recognition from everybody; you don't announce something like that before everybody has had a chance to be notified in private. It'd be disrespectful to have them find out on the OWF.

It's hard to announce a decision or event before the decision is made or the event is completed.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1286672026' post='2480026']
Actually, the goal was to get UPN to leave CDT. As you should probably know.
[/quote]

That was never on our list of goals, but thank you for shooting in the dark and missing yet again. Why are you always so wrong when you post? Do you not fact check? Proofread? Anything? I have not seen a poster in my three plus years in the game be as off-base and incorrect as often as you are. I am honestly fascinated in regard to how oblivious one individual can be. Tell you what ... why don't you just stop posting in regard to Ragnarok at all, hm? You are never right. You do not know us or anything about us, really. You are not an insider. No one of note speaks with you or shares anything with you. You lack information or insight. You are not a key player on Bob, never have been, and never will be.

Too much? Probably. But, jumpin' Jesus on a pogostick are you annoying.

Anyway, sad to see the bloc go actually.

[Locke]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1286698820' post='2480274']
That was never on our list of goals, but thank you for shooting in the dark and missing yet again. Why are you always so wrong when you post? Do you not fact check? Proofread? Anything? I have not seen a poster in my three plus years in the game be as off-base and incorrect as often as you are. I am honestly fascinated in regard to how oblivious one individual can be. Tell you what ... why don't you just stop posting in regard to Ragnarok at all, hm? You are never right. You do not know us or anything about us, really. You are not an insider. No one of note speaks with you or shares anything with you. You lack information or insight. You are not a key player on Bob, never have been, and never will be.
[/quote]
I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure he was cracking a joke there. Also, you knowing everything about who does and doesn't talk to Haf must mean that you monitor his IRC and PM communications, and hence now RoK should be declared on for spying.

If you couldn't tell, that was a joke too.

[President S O]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1286569881' post='2479077']
I look forward to a glorious future of unannounced wars, treaties and surrender terms.
[/quote]

This pretty much sums it up. It's stupid not to announce, and its stupid for the constant attacking and bull**** that goes on in some threads.

[magicninja]

CDT gone eh? I guess that sucks even though I didn't know all the alliances very well.

Edited October 10, 2010 by magicninja

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1286569881' post='2479077']
I look forward to a glorious future of [b]unannounced wars[/b], treaties [b]and surrender terms[/b].
[/quote]

*eyes light up*

[camerontech]

The disbandment of CDT was well overdue, the mere fact that the bloc continued existing for as long as it did is nothing more than a testament to the stubbornness of a few members.

[Mirreille]

I actually agree with thaone here, us peanut gallery members get most of our information from the back and forth on the OWF, and if a lot of people stopped using it, my interest in the game would die. Watching you people bicker is a spectator sport for me.

[Whitney]

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/OmegaMet/CDTgraph.png[/IMG]

[Locke]

[quote name='Whitney' timestamp='1286735695' post='2480521']
[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/OmegaMet/CDTgraph.png[/IMG]
[/quote]
CDT may be many things, but unknown isn't one of them. You don't live that long and not get at least [i]a little[/i] publicity.

[Tarikmo]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1286709081' post='2480313']
*eyes light up*
[/quote]
I have a GOD awful feeling about this

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1286755349' post='2480741']
CDT may be many things, but unknown isn't one of them. You don't live that long and not get at least [i]a little[/i] publicity.
[/quote]
This, especially with the huge amount of membership they had.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Whitney' timestamp='1286735695' post='2480521']
[img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/OmegaMet/CDTgraph.png[/img]
[/quote]



Shoot and miss. Try again.

[Haflinger]

For those young people wondering (well maybe just that one person), CDT was the oldest MDP+ bloc on Planet Bob.

At the start of this year, only CDT, Citadel and Superfriends remained from the list of MDP blocs that were around in 2007.

[Bones Malone]

[quote name='Dexomega' timestamp='1286650527' post='2479773']
Alright, I'll explain the pretty much obvious.

A bunch of people decided to start spilling the beans before the announcement was supposed to be made. In fact there is still a discussion going on about the future of CDT, so why in the name of all things sane should we announce something still under discussion?

Until you get all the info, do NOT call us out. It makes everyone look stupid.
[/quote]

I don't know anything about calling anyone out or not, or what's up with the beans and the why's and how's of them being spilled, but I know that I found this CDT disbandment stuff out a while ago. Like, end of September type stuff. Presumably things were still in discussion then, but I first heard about this when I was trolling around UPN's end of the world and saw this: [url="http://cnupn.net/forums/index.php?topic=482.msg117366#msg117366"]"CDT is hereby dissolved."[/url]

For those not able to see, it says, "We voted to leave CDT September 3, 2010. We have waited to give USN, Menotah, and Wolfpack time to decide to make it a mutual dissolution of the treaty.

CDT is hereby dissolved."
From Peggy, on September 26.

Now, most of that deals with UPN's inclusion in CDT, but with statements that sound as absolute as "CDT is hereby dissolved," I kinda took that as fact. Its good to see Joey67500 and Menotah keeping the name alive. I would hope the CDT remains a presence in CN:TE, as I always had fun there.

Like I said, that was the first I heard about it. So if anyone's to blame for bean-spilling it would be that treaty change thing over in UPN. It does seem a little silly to be yelling at some people asking questions about a confusing issue when the whole "CDT is no more" talk seemed to start from within UPN. So, as a rather pointed question, would a current/recently former leader of a CDT alliance please fill us in on what's up? Please?

[Altheus]

[quote name='Bones Malone' timestamp='1286820292' post='2481635']
snip[/quote]

I've already explained in this thread so if you missed it you may want to refer to that for answers.
Aside from that though you seem to have answered you own question. Yes, UPN let the rest of CDT know that it intended to leave and then was waiting to see what the remaining signatories wished to do before going public. Hence the delays.