Best and Worst Military Alliances (2010 Edition)

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' timestamp='1283304864' post='2437686']
Feanor, I want you guys to look the part if you're going to claim you deserve to be the number one military alliance of 2010. Because right now you're definitely not the best, whether you were at any given point in the year matters very little in my opinion if what you're doing now is sitting and mooching off protection from terms. So yes, [i]I[/i] lonewolfe2015, Tyr of Asgaard, am telling TOP to purchase nukes.
[/quote]
The ESA doesn't put us under the protection of the victors therefore we aren't mooching off anyone. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern over our statistics.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Feanor Noldorin

[Lucius Aerilius]

This poll isn't biased at all.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1283308322' post='2437782']
The ESA doesn't put us under the protection of the victors therefore we aren't mooching off anyone. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern over our statistics.
[/quote]

Really? I never read it or remember it thoroughly, but does it involve you guys being unable to enter a war while under reps, but if attacked you guys are on your own or something? Just curious.

Thanks.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' timestamp='1283310121' post='2437819']
Really? I never read it or remember it thoroughly, but does it involve you guys being unable to enter a war while under reps, but if attacked you guys are on your own or something? Just curious.

Thanks.
[/quote]
The ESA literally consists of an admission of defeat and reps. That's it.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' timestamp='1283304864' post='2437686']
Feanor, I want you guys to look the part if you're going to claim you deserve to be the number one military alliance of 2010. Because right now you're definitely not the best, whether you were at any given point in the year matters very little in my opinion if what you're doing now is sitting and mooching off protection from terms. So yes, [i]I[/i] lonewolfe2015, Tyr of Asgaard, am telling TOP to purchase nukes.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Okay, let's, for one second anyway, assume that TOP [i]is[/i] being protected by MK and Co. (they're not). How, when they are paying an extremely high amount of tech, are they mooches? Really, do you have any idea how absurdly stupid that comment was?

That said, TOP is without a doubt one of the better military alliances out there. MK is a close second, but they have a lot of stupid members. While most of them are quite smart and quite stupid, TOP is a lot more selective than MK is. So that's what ultimately gives it to TOP. They have slightly better members. If Umbrella were the size of MK or TOP, then they'd take it. But they just don't have the numbers.

Also, to those voting for GOONS. No. Really, just no. Considering the number of stupid newbies they have, the amount of incidents they've had with active members over tech raid violations, it's clear they have a discipline problem and really shouldn't even be in this running. Sorry, but I just had to say it.[/color]

[KingEd]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1283311066' post='2437836']
The ESA literally consists of an admission of defeat and reps. That's it.
[/quote]

Let me beat someone else to the punch: "Another evil MK plan in their evil attempt to bait TOP/IRON into [i]another[/i] war"!!!

Edited September 1, 2010 by KingEd

[Biazt]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1283216269' post='2436352']
Just for the pleasure of correcting you



EDIT: Still no idea where you picked UCN in that
[/quote]

He probably got mixed up because UCN surrendered to us separately a day or so before for $150m reps.

Also sup RV? I was wondering when you'd show up and rant about GOONS. Page 18? I'm quite disappointed.

Edit: You guys forgot this part of the peace talks:

NATO: THIS IS EXTORTION
GOONS: Rebuilding funds for our low avg NS
NATO: THIS IS PUUUURE EXTORTION

Edited September 1, 2010 by Biazt

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1283298666' post='2437570']
we took out Legion [i]in a week[/i] in order to get back to helping ODN.
[/quote]

I agree with most of what you're saying, and commend Sparta for the efforts it's taken to improve its military (I myself had mixed results fighting Sparta, one nation went inactive and actually deleted after being blitzed the first night, cm'ing back at me, and then me nuking him, while another nation I fought was capable enough, and the three nations I attacked later when I came out of peace mode were decent, if outmatched). However, I take issue with the quote above, which is just factually flat out wrong. I posted our DoW on February 3rd, we had our whole peace negotiation fiasco on the 11th where our protectorate and our MDP partner MASH peaced out, however, The Legion stayed in for a good week and a half to two weeks after that, eventually peacing out on the 22th when I posted our surrender terms, my last action in government before leaving the alliance. So, Legion was in for 19 days, not one week. Also, Sparta hardly took Legion out, The Templar Knights, Asgaard, The Soldiers of Legion, The Circle Of Icarus and Alpha Omega countered the following night. All these counters played the biggest role as by and large they were very prepared and competent, Asgaard, TCI, and AO, being small well prepared and well coordinated high ANS alliances, and Templar Knights being a fairly solid 4 million NS thrown on. The only weak leak was Soldiers of Legion whom were wrapped up fairly quickly with some counters. Then, two days later on the 6th, you piled on Amazon Nation, another high ANS alliance, as well as Umbrella (although Umbrella only engaged our #1 nation, and perhaps a few others IIRC, they weren't focused on us by any means). Outnumbered, and outgunned, particularly in the upper ranks, The Legion stayed in and rejected multiple offers of white peace, instead opting to stick it out, only peacing out when our then Imperator ordered me to seek peace despite a general membership poll that was in favor of fighting on. To claim that Sparta singlehandedly wiped out The Legion in a week, is just so far from the truth it is staggering, and I'd imagine is probably just a claim made out of bad memory, not any malicious intent. That being said, I would hardly characterize Sparta as the worst military alliance, they had their bad and good apples. The title of worst military alliance goes to WAPA, hands down, who provided entertainment to the TIFDTT command channel in our darkest hours.

On a side note, my apologies to you personally, Hyperion, and the rest of the Spartan government/allied governments I dealt with during the peace negotiations. I was at times rather undiplomatic and unaccommodating to say the least, and deliberately did everything I could to sabotage peace talks and prevent us peacing out as I felt we had an obligation to stay in the war. Nothing personal, purely business.

[Matthew Conrad]

Let's be honest, the top candidates by far are TOP, MK, and Umbrella with maybe FAN in there. I'm certainly not a TOP fan but this isn't a poll about who you do and do not like, unfortunately it will mostly play out that way like so many other polls. Some of the alliances on the worst list probably shouldn't be on there since they straddle the line between terrible and non-existent, thus their inclusion is not even relevant. I have a feeling a significant number of people voting for Sparta are those who harbor a grudge either for what they perceive as past wrongs or basically their hate of Olaf's posts. Either way, while I'll admit I am somewhat bias they are hardly close to worst, especially given the strides they made after Karma.

[Roxxo]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1283316832' post='2437938']
I agree with most of what you're saying, and commend Sparta for the efforts it's taken to improve its military (I myself had mixed results fighting Sparta, one nation went inactive and actually deleted after being blitzed the first night, cm'ing back at me, and then me nuking him, while another nation I fought was capable enough, and the three nations I attacked later when I came out of peace mode were decent, if outmatched). However, I take issue with the quote above, which is just factually flat out wrong. I posted our DoW on February 3rd, we had our whole peace negotiation fiasco on the 11th where our protectorate and our MDP partner MASH peaced out, however, The Legion stayed in for a good week and a half to two weeks after that, eventually peacing out on the 22th when I posted our surrender terms, my last action in government before leaving the alliance. So, Legion was in for 19 days, not one week. Also, Sparta hardly took Legion out, The Templar Knights, Asgaard, The Soldiers of Legion, The Circle Of Icarus and Alpha Omega countered the following night. All these counters played the biggest role as by and large they were very prepared and competent, Asgaard, TCI, and AO, being small well prepared and well coordinated high ANS alliances, and Templar Knights being a fairly solid 4 million NS thrown on. The only weak leak was Soldiers of Legion whom were wrapped up fairly quickly with some counters. Then, two days later on the 6th, you piled on Amazon Nation, another high ANS alliance, as well as Umbrella (although Umbrella only engaged our #1 nation, and perhaps a few others IIRC, they weren't focused on us by any means). Outnumbered, and outgunned, particularly in the upper ranks, The Legion stayed in and rejected multiple offers of white peace, instead opting to stick it out, only peacing out when our then Imperator ordered me to seek peace despite a general membership poll that was in favor of fighting on. To claim that Sparta singlehandedly wiped out The Legion in a week, is just so far from the truth it is staggering, and I'd imagine is probably just a claim made out of bad memory, not any malicious intent. That being said, I would hardly characterize Sparta as the worst military alliance, they had their bad and good apples. The title of worst military alliance goes to WAPA, hands down, who provided entertainment to the TIFDTT command channel in our darkest hours.

On a side note, my apologies to you personally, Hyperion, and the rest of the Spartan government/allied governments I dealt with during the peace negotiations. I was at times rather undiplomatic and unaccommodating to say the least, and deliberately did everything I could to sabotage peace talks and prevent us peacing out as I felt we had an obligation to stay in the war. Nothing personal, purely business.
[/quote]

One thing that you have to take into account is that we didn't focus on the Legion until well after you declared on us. We were more concerned with TOOL, TOP, and IRON at the time and let our allies handle Legion and whoever else else was attacking us at that time. I believe what Hyp meant was that Legion surrendered quickly after we shifted our focus over to them and actually started going on the offensive against them. I believe it was called operation $%^# up purple team.

Also I was one of the decent yet outmatched people you referred to I think you were the only person I fought that actually had more tech than I did...and more infra...and more nukes...and more aircraft...more of pretty much everything really, hence the outmatched part. I could defend pretty well, but I couldn't do anything back.

[Stetson76]

I am very disappointed that no one who fought us has voted for SNAFU. In fact, I'm the only person who was fighting with/for/or against us that voted for us.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1283318306' post='2437952']
Let's be honest, the top candidates by far are TOP, MK, and Umbrella with maybe FAN in there.
[/quote]

FAN are awesome, but if they fought Umbrella, they'd be rolled. Ergo, they are not the best military alliance.

[rrkilledme]

Best military alliance is MK hands down. No contest here.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1283311591' post='2437845']
[color="#FF00FF"]Okay, let's, for one second anyway, assume that TOP [i]is[/i] being protected by MK and Co. (they're not). How, when they are paying an extremely high amount of tech, are they mooches? Really, do you have any idea how absurdly stupid that comment was?[/color]
[/quote]

IF they had been, they would have neglected holding a military in favor of relying on their protectors, I was unaware what the specific ESA terms were and didn't care enough to find out, my bad. So the "absurdity" of the comment was more in my lack of knowledge behind the terms, and less in the content of the post.

Edited September 1, 2010 by lonewolfe2015

[MagicalTrevor]

MK TOP & Umbrella are all quite far ahead of the rest in terms of activity power and application of power.

Then you have a big group of good fighters with decent stats like PC NoR (who are the best in this group) FOK FARK. Used to have people like valhalla but they've had to fight good alliances for 2 wars running and have lost too much ANS and experienced players to be in here.



But yeah, MK/TOP/Umb MADP will rule the world.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' timestamp='1283303670' post='2437667']
Almost 25% of your top 40 nations don't even hold nukes right now, because you're relying on your terms to keep you protected.
[/quote]
This is a normal part of military preparation for an elite alliance. Actually 25% is much too low.

Keeping yourself nuke-free means you can use the financial benefits from your uranium trade, and your bills are lower. This is how you get your warchest back after a war.

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' timestamp='1283303670' post='2437667']
You've barely been able to stay afloat with sanction due to the constant flux in members which was never a trait of TOP, and you're holding in total 200 more nukes with 3x the membership of my alliance.[/quote]
You do know the constant flux in members is because they mass-recruited newbies to help pay the tech reps, right?

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Roxxo' timestamp='1283319667' post='2437968']
One thing that you have to take into account is that we didn't focus on the Legion until well after you declared on us. We were more concerned with TOOL, TOP, and IRON at the time and let our allies handle Legion and whoever else else was attacking us at that time. I believe what Hyp meant was that Legion surrendered quickly after we shifted our focus over to them and actually started going on the offensive against them. I believe it was called operation $%^# up purple team.

Also I was one of the decent yet outmatched people you referred to I think you were the only person I fought that actually had more tech than I did...and more infra...and more nukes...and more aircraft...more of pretty much everything really, hence the outmatched part. I could defend pretty well, but I couldn't do anything back.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I just wanted to clarify that point. As to our war, well I had started the war at around 45k NS with 3.5k tech and most military wonders besides the WRC and AADN, but 2 rounds of war getting pounded on by Asgaard counters with WRC's beat me down a good bit, to around the 20k range IIRC, where having those wonders and roughly 2.8k tech left certainly gave me an advantage. Good fight though, cheers to you my formal battlefield opponent

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1283298666' post='2437570']
We are obviously not the greatest military in the world, but I'm starting to get tired of people belittling our improvements since Karma, and I'm REALLY tired of people saying we don't pull our weight. We launched a large military counter offensive on IRON within minutes despite GRE's best efforts to $%&@-up [i]everything[/i] (they literally asked me what a target list was). We went toe to toe with TOP's top tier with minimal incidents in comparison to Karma, and even did a decent job in knocking them down to the mid ranges. When umbrella moved on to NATO, we took out Legion [i]in a week[/i] in order to get back to helping ODN. We got TOOL's top tier to surrender with [i]one guy[/i]. We kept on fighting and kept on staggering and never gave up despite getting heavily countered by four alliances. Other than the single fighter we sent to neutralize TOOL's entire top tier, we never diverted a drop of our big boys to defend ourselves. We gave [i]everything[/i] to you and never complained or refused your requests for help. Not [i]once[/i]. I don't see anyone ever criticizing polar for their boys refusing to back up Sparta because "they didn't want to fight their friends in TOP". I don't see anyone ever saying [i]anything[/i] except that Sparta doesn't pull our weight.
[/quote]

Don't forget you called in your allies at The Templar Knights to deal with a two man alliance that was destroying the nations it fought. Also, don't forget the complaints that The Templar Knights gave when they were nuked more than once (seriously, what do you expect when you attack a nuclear power?) and send messages to that effect to their opposition. Never mind the fact that someone (either in Sparta or TTK) allegedly begged ODN to sanction the members of the two man alliance, though their pleadings were denied.

I am still confused by Sparta's sending "war aid" to my nation while I was fighting Spartan nations, however. I assume that is part of some grand strategy I just don't get.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Titus Pullo

[D34th]

Poor Sparta

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' timestamp='1283345139' post='2438144']
Don't forget you called in your allies at The Templar Knights to deal with a two man alliance that was destroying the nations it fought. Also, don't forget the complaints that The Templar Knights gave when they were nuked more than once (seriously, what do you expect when you attack a nuclear power?) and send messages to that effect to their opposition. Never mind the fact that someone (either in Sparta or TTK) allegedly begged ODN to sanction the members of the two man alliance, though their pleadings were denied.

I am still confused by Sparta's sending "war aid" to my nation while I was fighting Spartan nations, however. I assume that is part of some grand strategy I just don't get.
[/quote]

Best two man alliance allies ever

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1283316832' post='2437938']
I agree with most of what you're saying, and commend Sparta for the efforts it's taken to improve its military (I myself had mixed results fighting Sparta, one nation went inactive and actually deleted after being blitzed the first night, cm'ing back at me, and then me nuking him, while another nation I fought was capable enough, and the three nations I attacked later when I came out of peace mode were decent, if outmatched). However, I take issue with the quote above, which is just factually flat out wrong. I posted our DoW on February 3rd, we had our whole peace negotiation fiasco on the 11th where our protectorate and our MDP partner MASH peaced out, however, The Legion stayed in for a good week and a half to two weeks after that, eventually peacing out on the 22th when I posted our surrender terms, my last action in government before leaving the alliance. So, Legion was in for 19 days, not one week. Also, Sparta hardly took Legion out, The Templar Knights, Asgaard, The Soldiers of Legion, The Circle Of Icarus and Alpha Omega countered the following night. All these counters played the biggest role as by and large they were very prepared and competent, Asgaard, TCI, and AO, being small well prepared and well coordinated high ANS alliances, and Templar Knights being a fairly solid 4 million NS thrown on. The only weak leak was Soldiers of Legion whom were wrapped up fairly quickly with some counters. Then, two days later on the 6th, you piled on Amazon Nation, another high ANS alliance, as well as Umbrella (although Umbrella only engaged our #1 nation, and perhaps a few others IIRC, they weren't focused on us by any means). Outnumbered, and outgunned, particularly in the upper ranks, The Legion stayed in and rejected multiple offers of white peace, instead opting to stick it out, only peacing out when our then Imperator ordered me to seek peace despite a general membership poll that was in favor of fighting on. To claim that Sparta singlehandedly wiped out The Legion in a week, is just so far from the truth it is staggering, and I'd imagine is probably just a claim made out of bad memory, not any malicious intent. That being said, I would hardly characterize Sparta as the worst military alliance, they had their bad and good apples. The title of worst military alliance goes to WAPA, hands down, who provided entertainment to the TIFDTT command channel in our darkest hours.

On a side note, my apologies to you personally, Hyperion, and the rest of the Spartan government/allied governments I dealt with during the peace negotiations. I was at times rather undiplomatic and unaccommodating to say the least, and deliberately did everything I could to sabotage peace talks and prevent us peacing out as I felt we had an obligation to stay in the war. Nothing personal, purely business.
[/quote]

The whole quote I said (which you selectively cut) was "[b]When umbrella moved on to NATO[/b], we took out Legion in a week in order to get back to helping ODN", which means that once our friends moved on and we had to actually turn our attention to [i]you[/i] rather than IRON, we defeated Legion in a single round of wars. And to be honest, the only people that were fighting you with any significant numbers during that week were Sparta and Asgaard. TTK, AO, TCI, and AzN were all either busy with other people or busy recovering during that week in preparation for round 3. We didn't anticipate your front would end before they had a chance to fight again.

And yes Rox, that week was named "Operation: $%&@ up Purple Team"

[quote name='Titus Pullo' timestamp='1283345139' post='2438144']
Don't forget you called in your allies at The Templar Knights to deal with a two man alliance that was destroying the nations it fought. Also, don't forget the complaints that The Templar Knights gave when they were nuked more than once (seriously, what do you expect when you attack a nuclear power?) and send messages to that effect to their opposition. Never mind the fact that someone (either in Sparta or TTK) allegedly begged ODN to sanction the members of the two man alliance, though their pleadings were denied.
[/quote]

We never asked for sanctions on ViP. I don't know who did that.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Hyperion321

[lonewolfe2015]

ViP was causing TTK issues because you guys kept declaring on their non-nuclear folk to maximize your damages, while TTK should have had better nuclear coverage at your ranges, it's also unfair to make the claim that you guys were some two-man wrecking team because you primarily picked on targets that couldn't handle you in their wildest dreams and after TTK dropped you for 2 rounds, their best guys were too strong. You should know that Longbowe, as for sanctions, I'd be surprised if [i]anyone[/i] asked for that, without proof it's merely your word versus someone else's.

Haf, I'm not an idiot when it comes to economics, but if you have to remain military free for longer than 3 months to get your warchest back, then you're putting yourself at risk or you had a really crappy warchest to begin with, while for TOP I think of them as taking the risk expecting to be fine, which they probably are, Invicta I see as someone who had crappy warchests and has to take that 3 months to actually reach pre-war heights and actually can't afford their militaries atm.

[Xavii]

I think would pretty much beat anyone 1 on 1 right now besides MK, I think that would end in a stalemate of some sorts.

TOP, NoR, PC, Kronos also has the quality but not stats/numbers right now. (Prolly forgetting some)

Edited September 1, 2010 by Xavii

[Reptyler]

The only proper way to decide this is to have everybody fight everybody.

[Aeternos Astramora]

The most general top 3 consensus is easily TOP, MK, and Umbrella, not necessarily in that order.

The most general bottom 3 consensus is MHA, Sparta, and Legion, not necessarily in that order. UPN might crack into the top 3, but probably not.