Decree of the Sith

[Havamil]

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1281314169' post='2405533']
Someone, a rogue in this case, is at war.

That someone, in this case a rogue, joins an Alliance (happens to be NSO).
That Alliance, in this case NSO, didnt check that someone's, in this case a rogue, warscreen.
That Alliance, in this case NSO, was contacted about the recent history.
That Alliance, in this case NSO, insisted on letting this escalate.
That Alliance, in this case NSO, committed one of the most clean Acts of War.

And now you start whining about it?

Thank you for showing your roots.
[/quote]
kinda sounds familiar eh? considering you are aiding a rogue as you speak, nice

[Choson]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1281316692' post='2405733']
The logs in the DoW say otherwise.
[/quote]

As I stated before, illiteracy is apparently a highly regarded quality within the NSO and her allies.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281316748' post='2405737']
You guys are so paper-thin it's funny.

Can the official reason for this war just be changed to "we want to attack NPO"? It'll save us all embarrassing stuff like this.
[/quote]
I don't think it is about attacking NPO in particular, more of a hope they could attack many alliances via treaty chain by attacking suddenly.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1281315209' post='2405618']
I, for one, could care less about a larger curbstomp. If NSO feels it is being truely wronged, they can ask for their treaty partners to come in (No, that is not an attempt to goad alliances into declaring in defense). NSO caused this mess, if they want to burn by themselves that is the table they set for themselves.
[/quote]

It takes two to tango, bucko.

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281316295' post='2405716']
What's so hard to understand about this NSO?

RoK requested that you don't send aid to this nation, and warned you that they would consider it an act of war. So you completely ignore their wishes and send the guy aid anyway because "they didn't have proof". So instead of showing some courtesy and waiting until the proof had been provided you sent him the aid anyway? And now you're complaining about lack of diplomacy? Because I sure as hell don't see any attempts at diplomacy for you.
[/quote]

We asked RoK For further clarification and information prior to attacks. They commenced anyway, at which point aid was sent. Looks like RoK completely ignored NSO's requests.

[2burnt2eat]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281316295' post='2405716']
What's so hard to understand about this NSO?

RoK requested that you don't send aid to this nation, and warned you that they would consider it an act of war. So you completely ignore their wishes and send the guy aid anyway because "they didn't have proof". So instead of showing some courtesy and waiting until the proof had been provided you sent him the aid anyway? And now you're complaining about lack of diplomacy? Because I sure as hell don't see any attempts at diplomacy for you.

You couldn't wait for RoK to send you any proof that the guy was a rogue, so why should they wait for you to start negotiations?
[/quote]

Somehow Rok calling up allies and declaring war over $6mi on NSO in a heartbeat is somehow more diplomatic than NSO consistently requesting information and proof? That and you pretty much saying guilty until proven innocent makes me strongly believe I've given your post more reading than it deserves, as if you were someone intelligent.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281316690' post='2405732']
Because you aided him. If you had waited, there would have been a much higher possibility for peace.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]It is still six million, and I doubt you'll find many of us who will disagree that it was a stupid decision on the part of Heft. However, it was still resolvable, and Hoo seemed to agree when I spoke with him. Was he bluffing the entire time?[/color]

[Kalasin]

[quote name='FreddieMercury' timestamp='1281316723' post='2405736']
I don't think anyone denies that RoK put in about 10% into diplomacy, obviously Hoo was just itching for a fight. Some alliances in CnG actually have a moral spine and believes that with power comes with responsibility and that you shouldn't use it unless you absolutely have to. That's obviously going to affect how some diplomacy will play out in the future (more disliking, distrust, all that good stuff)
[/quote]

ooc: I roleplay a semi-moralist character and I honestly don't see anything wrong with this Declaration of War.

SF and C&G are united by common interests and a common enemy, not morals or anything else. I don't see that changing as a result of this war. Plus, this war came about as a result of bad foreign affairs ability on NSO's part. They should've realised that messing about with RoK would get them rolled. What they did *was* an act of war, and a decent CB.

Really, this wasn't the best time to get into a war. Everyone is rebuilding. If SuperGrievances wanted to roll ex-Hegemony, they would've waited until a later date.

[TheThirdMark]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281316509' post='2405726']
[color="#0000FF"]It doesn't matter. RoK attacked someone we made clear was being treated as a member until evidence could be provided. It is not an obscene request and as I said, it is one that would usually be granted. But the simple truth is RoK wanted war. There was never a hope for peace at all.[/color]
[/quote]

In all fairness. Someone within your group of Space Rebels made the effort of logging in on CN, going to the Rogues Aidscreen and send the money. It would have been a very small effort to check the warscreen first. After all, he did log in to the game and its only the previous tab.
Then looking at the clear information every Red Flag should have gotten out, every Alarm Bell sound.

Its rather obvious to each and everyone within this game that both RoK and NSO were more then willing to go to war over this ''small'' incident. RoK because they simply dont back down, NSO because, lets be real, they just love War 'N Drama.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281317076' post='2405763']
[color="#0000FF"]It is still six million, and I doubt you'll find many of us who will disagree that it was a stupid decision on the part of Heft. However, it was still resolvable, and Hoo seemed to agree when I spoke with him. Was he bluffing the entire time?[/color]
[/quote]
Buying time. Wouldn't be shocked to see a leak come out that they were planning a war as soon as the aid pack went out. Heft should have known better than to play hardball with Jackals circling over him.

[TheThirdMark]

[quote name='Havamil' timestamp='1281316856' post='2405748']
kinda sounds familiar eh? considering you are aiding a rogue as you speak, nice
[/quote]

Lol. Then tell me. Who is the rogue in my aidscreen?

Then again, im used to failhalla telling nonsense.

Edited August 9, 2010 by TheThirdMark

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='2burnt2eat' timestamp='1281316955' post='2405755']
Somehow Rok calling up allies and declaring war over $6mi on NSO in a heartbeat is somehow more diplomatic than NSO consistently requesting information and proof? That and you pretty much saying guilty until proven innocent makes me strongly believe I've given your post more reading than it deserves, as if you were someone intelligent.
[/quote]

Well, Superfriends is an MDAP if I remember correctly, so they HAVE to ride to war together. Thanks for ignoring the fact that; NSO could have waited until RoK provided proof before aiding the guy, which they did shortly after RoK asked them not to aid him?

So you ignored pretty much the entire post, good job.

[rodrod]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281317235' post='2405772']
Well, Superfriends is an MDAP if I remember correctly, so they HAVE to ride to war together. Thanks for ignoring the fact that; NSO could have waited until RoK provided proof before aiding the guy, which they did shortly after RoK asked them not to aid him?

So you ignored pretty much the entire post, good job.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. RoK pretty much ignored the diplomatic route and went straight to war when an aid pack was sent. NSO messed up on that one, I will agree, but RoK should have tried a little harder before just saying "lolcurbstomp" Mad respect for NSO trying to keep this from exploding. I don't think it will work very well but you might as well not let them have the real prize.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281317235' post='2405772']
Well, Superfriends is an MDAP if I remember correctly, so they HAVE to ride to war together. Thanks for ignoring the fact that; NSO could have waited until RoK provided proof before aiding the guy, which they did shortly after RoK asked them not to aid him?

So you ignored pretty much the entire post, good job.
[/quote]

No. RoK seems to have attacked the fella after ignoring NSO's request for more information. Sounds a lot like their line, doesn't it? In the future I'll remember to just go ahead and attack RoK rather than seek diplomatic resolutions. Saves a lot of headaches.

[Havamil]

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1281317215' post='2405768']
Lol. Then tell me. Who is the rogue in my aidscreen?

Then again, im used to failhalla telling nonsense.
[/quote]
check this guys aid screen [quote]Descendent[/quote] and this guys warscreen [quote]Lord Bitburg[/quote] then fail with your info again, fail? rofl

[Daeryon]

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1281316909' post='2405750']
I don't think it is about attacking NPO in particular, more of a hope they could attack many alliances via treaty chain by attacking suddenly.
[/quote]

GASP!

You mean.....GASP!

Let me feign shock.

[2burnt2eat]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281317235' post='2405772']
Well, Superfriends is an MDAP if I remember correctly, so they HAVE to ride to war together. Thanks for ignoring the fact that; NSO could have waited until RoK provided proof before aiding the guy, which they did shortly after RoK asked them not to aid him?

So you ignored pretty much the entire post, good job.
[/quote]

VE and TENE are in Superfriends?

Wait, let's not even go down that path. How is that even an argument? Somehow Superfriends being a MADP bloc (Which is more of a MDoAP) has some justification to Rok calling them in in the first place? I was saying how Rok calling in allies for war in a heartbeat over $6mi wasn't diplomatic itself, you imbecile. So GREAT if you think they have to ride to war together, I'm still saying that Rok shouldn't have STARTED a war where they would "have" to "ride" together.

And here you continue to argue that Rok can do no wrong and only NSO is at fault.

Seriously, is all the attention I'm giving to your posts getting to your head? Because it wouldn't kill you to use your head before you type something up for once.

[zzzptm]

Fight well, warriors of NSO.

[Choson]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1281317625' post='2405789']
No. RoK seems to have attacked the fella after ignoring NSO's request for more information. Sounds a lot like their line, doesn't it? In the future I'll remember to just go ahead and attack RoK rather than seek diplomatic resolutions. Saves a lot of headaches.
[/quote]

Is that before or after he attacked TENE? I guess NSO can't read war information readily available to them.

RoK went through diplomatic motions which your government ignored when sending aid to a accused rogue.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='rodrod' timestamp='1281317414' post='2405780']
You're missing the point. RoK pretty much ignored the diplomatic route and went straight to war when an aid pack was sent. NSO messed up on that one, I will agree, but RoK should have tried a little harder before just saying "lolcurbstomp"[b] Mad respect for NSO trying to keep this from exploding.[/b] I don't think it will work very well but you might as well not let them have the real prize.
[/quote]

Haha yeah, they sure did a good job of that. Apart from that bit where they blatantly ignored a simple request of another alliance and were warned about what would happen if they did send him aid. Instead of waiting patiently for proof before deciding to aid the guy, they went ahead and did it anyway.

It really is their own fault.

[FreddieMercury]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281317080' post='2405764']
ooc: I roleplay a semi-moralist character and I honestly don't see anything wrong with this Declaration of War.

SF and C&G are united by common interests and a common enemy, not morals or anything else. I don't see that changing as a result of this war. Plus, this war came about as a result of bad foreign affairs ability on NSO's part. They should've realised that messing about with RoK would get them rolled. What they did *was* an act of war, and a decent CB.

Really, this wasn't the best time to get into a war. Everyone is rebuilding. If SuperGrievances wanted to roll ex-Hegemony, they would've waited until a later date.
[/quote]

Right, acts like this would have a lesser impact if SF and CnG were united against a common enemy, [b]but [/b]it's generally accepted that the ex-hegemony is no longer a faction, rather it's been split up and falling under the respective influences of SF and CnG. In other words you don't have any viable common enemies to deal with anymore and it's not going to shield the distaste you will build for one another.

This wasn't a "wrong" CB per-se, but rather one where it's obvious people were blood thirsty and showed no restraint. SF wasn't a faction that was bullied by the then hegemony at every turn, CnG was, so don't be surprised if they are more empathetic.

[rabonnobar]

Good luck, NSO. I wish you all the best.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1281314505' post='2405563']
I dont understand how something like this is a solid CB? This happened many times in many alliances, and virtually all cases were solved diplomatically. IT was clear RoK had no intention of solving this in a diplomatic way, and they insisted on war. Hoo even "dissapeared" by coincidence when NSO tried to solve this... so yeah, way to go RoK, you started a war over a 4k nation and you refused to solve it diplomatically.
[/quote]

I have now seen this said a multitude of times, and it is mind-boggling to me. If the aid had been sent immediately upon his entrance into NSO, before RoK had spoken to NSO about it, I would agree. There would be a diplomatic solution.The aid was sent to this nation, in the midst of war with RoK. It was sent AFTER NSO knew of his involvement in a rogue war. It was sent AFTER they were fairly warned(and rightly so, I might add) that aiding said nation would constitute and act of war. After ALL of this was known... NSO aided him. Seriously... it is AMAZING to me, that ANY of you can defend this action. It is amazing to me that ANY of you can say AFTER the aid was sent that "this could be solved diplomatically." You do not attempt to solve something diplomatically by being undiplomatic about it. The $6 million he was sent would have been much better used as rebuild aid following his single ZI. Instead, the Sith chose to help this nation inflict more military damage on RoK and its protectorate. Someone explain to me when, in the course of CN, this became "diplomatic". I missed that memo.

Solid CB is solid. No amount of NSO martyrdom will change that.

[Arcades057]

Well hey, I for one am glad that the "karma" war brought an end to the curbstomp wars here. 639 vs 168 is in no way a curbstomp.

(said with so much tongue in cheek that I'm spraining something)

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='2burnt2eat' timestamp='1281317705' post='2405796']
VE and TENE are in Superfriends?

Wait, let's not even go down that path. How is that even an argument? Somehow Superfriends being a MADP bloc (Which is more of a MDoAP) has some justification to Rok calling them in in the first place? I was saying how Rok calling in allies for war in a heartbeat over $6mi wasn't diplomatic itself, you imbecile. So GREAT if you think they have to ride to war together, I'm still saying that Rok shouldn't have STARTED a war where they would "have" to "ride" together.

And here you continue to argue that Rok can do no wrong and only NSO is at fault.

Seriously, is all the attention I'm giving to your posts getting to your head? Because it wouldn't kill you to use your head before you type something up for once.
[/quote]

Oh, I was under the impression that it was a good idea to tell your allies "Oh hey we're going to war" before riding to war. Silly me huh? And you don't understand this whole, Mutual Aggression clause either?

[quote name='From the CN Wiki']The SuperFriends is a MADP bloc originally between Farkistan, the Random Insanity Alliance, the Atlantic Shadow Confederation but now also includes the Global Order of Darkness, Ragnarok, Monos Archein, R&R, and the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. [/quote]
and VE have an MDAP with GOD too. Now these treaties mean that if one of these alliances goto war, they all have to goto war. What are you finding hard to understand about this?


[quote name='Arcades057' timestamp='1281318222' post='2405839']
Well hey, I for one am glad that the "karma" war brought an end to the curbstomp wars here. 639 vs 168 is in no way a curbstomp.

(said with so much tongue in cheek that I'm spraining something)
[/quote]

[img]http://www.wiretotheear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/scratched_record.jpg[/img]

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Kevlar]

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1281317128' post='2405765']
It would have been a very small effort to check the warscreen first. After all, he did log in to the game and its only the previous tab.
Then looking at the clear information every Red Flag should have gotten out, every Alarm Bell sound.
[/quote]
Just speaking personally, but I typically do not assume my fellow alliancemates are criminals Men of questionable moral fortitude, certainly, but not criminals

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1281317235' post='2405772']
NSO could have waited until RoK provided proof before aiding the guy
[/quote]
Did they lose it?

-Kev