Peace in our time

[iamthey]

[quote name='the masheen' timestamp='1280653532' post='2396930']
I was simply suggesting that there are more bystanders talking trash to GRE than there are IRON/DAWN members. No need to be a jerk about it. Maybe you can teach me a thing or two about when to jump into a war. It's worked out pretty well for you guys.
[/quote]

I am just answering your post in the same sarcastic manner you made it in. All I am saying is there are structural aspects of planet bob that prevent people from dog piling into a situation like this. So while we can't actually help IRON out, we sure can voice support, and wish them well. Wouldn't you want your own allies to voice support for you, and congratulate you on victory in war?

As for your retort, yes it did work out pretty well for us. That is until about a year and a half ago. That being said, experience is the best teacher, so make what you want of that.

Edited August 1, 2010 by iamthey

[Solaris]

Congrats on a splendid pyrrhic stalemate, Grem.

[Andre27]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1280637833' post='2396790']
Like Ram or hate him i must give credit to anyone who stayed just out of loyalty to their alliance, obviously some of them drank the same kool aid but id like to hope not all did.

Also anyone whos dumb enough to raid Gramlins is asking for a beating as they still have some pretty big nations
[/quote]

Are you kidding me? Anything below their top-4 nations is raiding flodder and the top 4 can't do a thing about it because they are out of range.
If i would raid (haven't done that since my nations was about 8k) i would most certainly see a target of opportunity here.

Even if the Gremlins below the top 4 rebuild, they're likely not to have large reserves any more, meaning they probably will take their losses and accept peace.

[mdnss69]

The Gramlins not only lost their war, but they also lost their alliance it seems...

[Echostorm]

Congrats! Maybe now the GRL will go down a bit.

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1280663828' post='2396983']
Are you kidding me? Anything below their top-4 nations is raiding flodder and the top 4 can't do a thing about it because they are out of range.
If i would raid (haven't done that since my nations was about 8k) i would most certainly see a target of opportunity here.
[/quote]

They might be out of range of those doing the raiding but not necessarily their alliance mates. And there are still some people who would help out Grä should such an event happen.

[amad123]

[quote name='Ertyy' timestamp='1280618870' post='2396484']
Gre doesn't follow his personal opinions just because he happens to be the most outspoken in certain venues. [/quote]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' timestamp='1280620349' post='2396501']
Then why does Gre follow his personal opinions?
[/quote]

[quote name='Ertyy' timestamp='1280626567' post='2396571']
You really think he voted to end the war?
[/quote]

That almost sounds like a coup. So perhaps Ram's hold on power is slipping and we may soon see a more reasonable and responsible member in power. Then it's just a matter of which enemy alliance would we like Ram to move to. Somehow I don't think all the drama is quite finished.


.

[Jens of the desert]

Well done, Ram and co. You ruined a perfectly good alliance through your own pride and ignorance. So, what's next on the agenda?

[Empress Theodora]

Congrats to IRON and DAWN
Onward to the rebuilding process

o/ IRON
o/ DAWN

[President S O]

Congratulations to IRON and DAWN. Well deserved. Best of luck rebuilding.

I think Gramlins should be paying your reps though.

[Andre27]

[quote name='Omas Nams' timestamp='1280666255' post='2396998']They might be out of range of those doing the raiding but not necessarily their alliance mates. And there are still some people who would help out Grä should such an event happen.[/quote]Personally i think the amount of those can be counted on one hand. There is also the issue if gremlins would ask for assistance, let's be honest if an alliance can not even defend its own members from a simple raid that alliance does no longer have a justification to exist.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Andre27

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1280638861' post='2396801']
If Gre had signed the ESA to begin with, i am fairly certain that the addendum they wanted to add on later could have been added on then. which means that the principle with which they fought for would have been secured. instead, they chose to throw a temper tantrum and refuse to sign the ESA and continue the war for this so called principle of theirs. [/quote]

A treaty ending a war, ends the war. Even the implication that a defeated alliance may have to fulfill additional requirements to satisfy someone who didn't get their last little dagger in is completely abhorrent.

Gramlins in the end got what they deserved for their stubbornness and insistence on "principle".

[Branimir]

Lasted long enough in the end. Congratulations to IRON and DAWN for getting the peace deal you wanted from the start but was not given.

Also to say, I quite enjoyed seeing Gre becoming a micro AA, hahahaha

[Moe Szyslak]

Wow, shows how much I pay attention. I thought this thing was over a while back.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

GRE probably only ended it now so they wouldn't have to give IRON the satisfaction of completely disappearing off the map while at war with them. At this point they can at least attempt to prevent further deletions and desertions.

[Remaliat]

Congratulations on your victory IRON

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1280670298' post='2397029']
Personally i think the amount of those can be counted on one hand. There is also the issue if gremlins would ask for assistance, let's be honest if an alliance can not even defend its own members from a simple raid that alliance does no longer have a justification to exist.
[/quote]

Grä has always relied on MHA/FOK to do ghost busting/getting them to deal with raiders of their lower tier. So I do not see how those situations would differ from this one should someone make the mistake of trying to raid their lower tier. And if you believe that needing allies to deal with their raiders meant that Grä at their height had no justification to exist then you are sorely mistaken.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Remaliat' timestamp='1280672318' post='2397053']
Congratulations on your victory IRON
[/quote]
Thank you, let's also not forget that DAWN fought proportionally more wars than we did when accounting for alliance size. They did a heck of a job really.

[Kzoppistan]

Congratulations on peace you crazy kids.


For the record:
[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1270474200' post='2249218']
As for the speculation on the contest between IRON and Gre, there is no way Gre will be able to pressure IRON anymore. They are good fighters and tacticians, but even with their NS advantage, they lack the man power. IRON has enough people to rotate in and out. Gre got a big boost when they absorbed their protectorate but the Filipinos were poor fighters and not prepared at all. Under direction of Gre they will probably do better but over all I expect a stalemate.

Now that several IRON fronts have cleared, their morale will improve giving them room to focus on their remaining opponent. Conversely, being left on the battlefield is probably a detriment to the morale and strategic position of Gre. The best bet, imo, is for Gre to offer modest terms. The longer the conflict goes, the closer it will turn to white peace. [/quote]

Not that it was a terribly difficult thing to predict, but pardon me while I go polish my crystal ball.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' timestamp='1280598460' post='2396113']
White peace isn't victory.
[/quote]
Yes, it is. Look at the relative statistics of the two alliances; Grämlins suffered far more damage than IRON did.

It isn't surrender, but the opposite of victory is defeat, not surrender.

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1280604447' post='2396241']
I wouldn't really call this a victory for either side. IRON suffered a huge economic loss by keeping nations in peace, and Gramlins really destroyed themselves internally. Though I guess IRON came out a little better.
[/quote]
This man has a point too, except that war causes losses. IRON's losses from such a prolonged war would normally have been greater.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1280611221' post='2396365']
Nobody made any mention of this violating their paperless policy?
[/quote]
Nope, you were the first. Congrats.

[Andre27]

[quote name='Omas Nams' timestamp='1280672482' post='2397054']
Grä has always relied on MHA/FOK to do ghost busting/getting them to deal with raiders of their lower tier. So I do not see how those situations would differ from this one should someone make the mistake of trying to raid their lower tier. And if you believe that needing allies to deal with their raiders meant that Grä at their height had no justification to exist then you are sorely mistaken.
[/quote]

In the past Gremlins could provide a credible protection for the upper tier in return, now they cannot.
If an alliance is not capable of defending its members from raiders, then said alliance should take a long and serious look at its right to exist.
Remember that an alliance exist by the grace of it's members, not the other way around.
The primary goal of any alliance should be to provide safety for it's members, loose the means to provide that safety and IMO you lose the right to exist.

[ilselu1]

So much for inflated Global Radiation, I rather enjoyed it. Kept me warm at night and such.

[Roadie]

o/ The merciful IRON!
o/ Victory!

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1280672565' post='2397055']
Thank you, let's also not forget that DAWN fought proportionally more wars than we did when accounting for alliance size. They did a heck of a job really.
[/quote]
Wouldn't anything else have almost been impossible?

[Tyranus]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1280678094' post='2397103']
In the past Gremlins could provide a credible protection for the upper tier in return, now they cannot.
If an alliance is not capable of defending its members from raiders, then said alliance should take a long and serious look at its right to exist.
Remember that an alliance exist by the grace of it's members, not the other way around.
The primary goal of any alliance should be to provide safety for it's members, loose the means to provide that safety and IMO you lose the right to exist.
[/quote]

The members provide the safety for each other, not the alliance leader. The leader "just" coordinates stuff and holds the entire thing together. No, Grämlins' right to exist is quite safe in my books.