amad123

[quote name='Xavii' timestamp='1290371429' post='2519281'] Never thought I'd see the day but ODN is truly a changed alliance. [/quote] [quote name='MikeTheFirst' timestamp='1290371548' post='2519286'] Does this mean ODN is in PB now? [/quote] It doesn't surprise me to see ODN moving in this direction. Karma will provide for their enlightenment. Long may this treaty last.

I always thought GOONS would be the alliance that would start the next major war. However after the NSO/MK incident my thinking is that MK will be behind the next war. It is clear that they are becoming the alliance most likely to be trolled. The trouble with winning a war is that unless you handle the reps situation very carefully you make an enemy. Typically that enemy hunkers down and starts to plot revenge. Win several wars and demand punitive reps and suddenly you have lots of enemies plotting revenge and waiting for the right opportunity to come along. Make no mistake, alliances will wait years to get revenge, if their leaders move to other alliances then that alliance too will start to look for an opportunity. I think it is safe to say that MK needs to do some excellent PR work to avoid finding themselves providing the opportunity everyone is waiting for. I wouldn't say lines are being drawn today but certainly Planet Bob is awash with backroom discussions as each side attempts to garner support. As soon as we start seeing treaties being canceled and new ties being formed it will signal that lines are being drawn and the next major war is about to begin. It's no secret what the two sides will be, it's just a matter of time before the weaker side gains enough support that they feel they can strike. I expect a lot of interesting times between now and Christmas break. We may have our Christmas war this year or maybe it will wait until reading week, but it surely is being planned right now. I'm also sure that having lost the last few wars the currently weaker side will wait until they are assured of victory before they strike. It's just a matter of gathering enemies of your enemies until you have the strength you need. Drama season may be about to begin, sit back and enjoy, or get involved, the choice is yours.

[quote name='TheNecromancer' timestamp='1280769518' post='2398508'] Agreed, this thread needs to be retired. [/quote] It would be a terrible mistake to retire this thread for two reasons. 1) Gramlins still exist, therfore we should keep this thread going so we don't have to start a new thread everytime we want to talk about them. 2) If we retire this thread no doubt some other topic will try and break this record and I have no intention of following another topic for almost 300 pages. So keep this one going a little longer and ensure it will never be challenged for length.

[quote name='Ertyy' timestamp='1280618870' post='2396484'] Gre doesn't follow his personal opinions just because he happens to be the most outspoken in certain venues. [/quote] [quote name='Titus Pullo' timestamp='1280620349' post='2396501'] Then why does Gre follow his personal opinions? [/quote] [quote name='Ertyy' timestamp='1280626567' post='2396571'] You really think he voted to end the war? [/quote] That almost sounds like a coup. So perhaps Ram's hold on power is slipping and we may soon see a more reasonable and responsible member in power. Then it's just a matter of which enemy alliance would we like Ram to move to. Somehow I don't think all the drama is quite finished. .

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' date='19 July 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1279576771' post='2379362'] I'm sure the remaining upper tier of GRE are carrying billions. Ramirus was shocking to say the least. He must have had jack !@#$ when this all started. He sat in war mode for weeks just collecting taxes while IRON hid in hippy. [/quote] It doesn't really matter how much they have, it matters how long they can make it last. I know of at least one nation where we have destroyed over $1bil so far and in few more weeks and they wll be bill locked if they don't delete. We are aware of how much each of them has and the largest warchest will take about 200-250 days to eliminate. Less if they put up a bit of a fight. Blackdigital is still buying tech or accumulating it. It will all be for nought, a few nukes and a months worth of tech trades will be eliminated. It is sad, but they won't accept peace so we have little choice but to render them harmless.

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='15 July 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1279239476' post='2373806'] I'm not sure what the best part of that amendment nonsense was, [/quote] The best part of the amendment nonsense is that Gramlins has opened the door to amend any and all previous agreements after the fact. MHA could now go back and amend the Harmlins Accords or whatever it is they hold with Gramlins and add in a termination clause. IRON and DAWN could go back to their war declaration and amend it to declare everlasting peace with CnG instead of war. Just think of the possibilities of being able to amend old documents to suit the current times. Ramius's genius sometimes is overlooked. .

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] We are at war with you. We, and only we, can absolve you of your actions which caused our entrance. Who else would possibly have the authority to absolve you in the eyes of The Gremlins. [/quote] Actually I went to confess all my sins to Father Joseph last week before mass. I specifically mentioned that we attacked Gramlin nations that attacked our treaty partners (Iron) and I asked for absolution. He told me I was absolved of all my sins if I said three Hail Mary's and did a Rosary. So I'm sin free at the moment. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] As I've stated before, surrendering is a functional equivalent of submitting yourself in response to your wrongdoing. [/quote] Well we were wrong in starting a major war which we couldn't win. We will know better next time, rest assured. And at the time ESA was signed we felt sorry enough for our actions to agree to restitution to Gramlins, however the citizens of my nation no longer feel sorry at all for attacking Gramlin nations and daily call out for more blood. We are building nukes as fast as we can and the bloodthirst to nuke Gramlins until they no longer exist continues to grow. I'd say Gramlins not only failed at ESA but since then their failure continues to grow. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] Surely you must see the folly in depending on the sincerity of an apology offered under duress? Especially considering so many IRON and DAWN members here have made it clear that you are not "sorry" Gremlins play the part in this situation because nobody else is left to demand that you honorably make yourself accountable. This is circumstantial. [/quote] You might have got an insincere apology several months ago. Now you get the finger. But I think you made the right choice and you are getting what you deserve. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] The Gremlins don't seek to be a moral police for the world. [/quote] ROFL [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] We merely seek for you to submit [b]because your behavior in this particular instance[/b] was wrong [b]and impacted us and our friends directly[/b]. [/quote] Yeah we said it was "wrong" and Father Joseph absolved us so now what? [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] Even if you disagree with our actions after all this discussion you surely must acknowledge that a significant amount of the jabs in this thread are opportunistic and/or delivered by people who haven't put forth the effort to understand [b]either[/b] of our positions. [/quote] We understand your position and offer that only truly worthy response "Nuts" or maybe it should be "Nukes". [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] Your disarm orders will be delivered following your surrender and when you are quartered. The terms will be delivered and you will [b]choose[[/b] to accept or decline them. This has always been the case since day one. [/quote] Not going to happen, nuking you guys is just too much fun. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] We've made it clear your white peace is unacceptable; any bright ideas? Non Sequitor. Our actions of the last 4 months, in fact, demonstrate our principles and our convictions. [/quote] White Peace or nukes are your choices, personally I'm glad you have chosen nukes. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 July 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1279259629' post='2374252'] I still affirm that we are not, and never have been, demanding anything unjust, immoral, insidious or tyrannical. Our path to peace is justified, appropriate and honorable given the circumstances. [/quote] We don't really care what you are demanding anymore, notice the lack of interest on our part for your terms. You just keep them safe and hidden away, that way no one will ever know the true depth of your idiocy. Personally I'd like to thank the Gramlins for teaching us how to defeat an alliance with a superior upper tier. They have provided us invaluable training that is sure to come in handy in the future. I know your friends on the other side of our treaty web are thrilled with your actions. You have much to be proud of. .

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 July 2010 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1278615233' post='2363653'] Sorry?Where did I say that it's not OK for DAWN? [/quote] Let me re-fresh your memory. Gramlins position is that DAWN was not granted peace because we attacked Gramlin nations that were at war with IRON nations. Is there another reason you have not offered to accept peace? Not that we would actually accept until IRON receives peace too. Don't give me any of that you offered "Unconditional Surrender" crap. The peace terms you did offer that we accepted you withdrew. Another nice play by Gramlins. So it is okay for you to defend anyone you desire with or without treaties, but not okay for DAWN to defend IRON from your attacks even though we have a treaty which by your own statement you were well aware of when you attacked IRON. But you weren't worried because DAWN is just an alliance of little importance. Keep it up and we will have more members and more NS than you. Then I assume Gramlins will be of little importance. Soon MPK, soon, you are next on the list. .

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 July 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1278608570' post='2363543'] we don't need to OWF's approval to know that we have the inherent right to defend [b]anybody[/b] against their assailants. [/quote] I love that statement. Let me put it in proper context. [quote]DAWN doesn't need to Gramlin's approval to know that we have the inherent right to defend [b]IRON[/b] against their assailants.[/quote] Somehow Gramlins has very twisted sense of reality. You seem to say "It's okay if we do it, but it's not okay for anyone else to do it." Your hypocrisy makes it very easy to rationalize sending you nukes. Keep up the good work! .

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1278380751' post='2360672'] [quote name='Matt Miller' date='05 July 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1278344720' post='2360282'] Well I would say your current course of action is an equally pointless endeavor. MPK, do you have any additional information about Ramirus' claim that all of CnG has given their official support to the proposed ESA amendment? [/quote] I have no desire/information to share with you regarding who has/hasn't agreed to what. [/quote] This is like any other Gramlin position. One has to apply their interpretation of "agreed to". A passing "It seems okay" in an IRC conversation by some minor alliance member could be taken for approval. However, when a Gramlin Government member makes a statement it doesn't count unless they have voted on it. So by that interpretation I suspect no alliance has approved of the amendment. I could fully support your amendment and agree with everything it says, I still wouldn't support letting you attach it to the ESA. My objective is to really annoy you and your government to the point that you won't accept white peace, since I can't convince them to pull it from the table. So far you are holding firm and I am greatly pleased. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1278380751' post='2360672'] It is not wrong to demand IRON surrender unconditionally for their actions. It is not wrong to *propose* an amendment as an alternative to a method our friends find unpalatable. I have no interest in accepting white peace from IRON. This issue is dominantly about their deliberate and malicious action instigating the war. [/quote] Again I find myself agreeing with MPK to a point. This is a game of political savy and when that fails war. If war wasn't intended to be part of the game then we wouldn't have a military available. So Gramlins is upset that IRON entered a war that NpO started. As I recall pretty much every alliance was itching for a war over Christmas, the very fact that so many alliances countered IRON on the same night war was declared or within 24hrs clearly points out that every alliance was prepared for war and everyone wanted a war, IRON was gracious enough to provide one. Not only that they provided one that favoured CnG and friends. Yet you find that offensive. lol No it is not wrong to want IRON to surrender unconditionally, you just aren't going to achieve it. You can propose whatever amendment you like, we enjoy a good laugh as much as the next alliance. Yes, IRON & DAWN were deliberate in responding to NpO's call for help in their war. Just as deliberate as Gramlins was in countering IRON. You don't want white peace, perfect, we will soon meet on the battlefield where we can exchange nukes. You play the game to do the right thing and show your honour. I play for war, any bets on who is enjoying this more? [quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1278380751' post='2360672'] They are in no position to offer white peace. [/quote] Again clearly you don't understand how alliances interact. IRON can offer it, hopefully you keep rejecting it. .

[quote name='dvdcchn' date='02 July 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1278116243' post='2358225'] on the bright note though, we have started coordination and talks to start paying our reps to ODN FARK and Sparta to start rep payments while at war. [/quote] Strategically this could be a huge mistake. If IRON should finish paying reps while still at war with Gramlins, and by that I mean Gramlins hasn’t agreed to sign a peace treaty, then any and all of the signatories of the ESA would be free to DOW IRON for continuing to wage war with Gramlins. Specifically MHA would be bound to re-enter first and then various treaties would draw everyone else in. The only way reps should be paid would be to get agreement from all alliances that once the reps are completed they would not declare war in support of the Gramlins. Ramirus has about a $900mil warchest, others have between $4billion and $5billion so if they don’t sign a peace treaty this war will last far longer than the time it will take IRON to pay reps. Paying reps without an agreement of “Non Support for Gramlins” is setting IRON up for a war once reps are finished and knowingly doing so. It is a very risky move to take unless the risks are mitigated beforehand. For those who find my aggressive stance of continued war against Gramlins until they are all bill locked, offensive, too bad, I stand by it, and I stand by it for these reasons. 1) Gramlins will not negotiate peace. Therefore if allowed to survive they will undoubtedly pull this same stunt next war, who needs to see this again. 2) Gramlins needs to be eliminated as a threat to DAWN. Since we are a small alliance Gramlins needs to be much smaller to be rendered threat less. 3) My nation is and always has been one that prefers war over peace, we are now in a war in which we can win, why would I want to stop before achieving complete victory and eliminating a threat. 4) If Gramlins could be eliminated as a threat to DAWN by negotiation then fine, give peace a chance, but I see no effort on their part to be reasonable or attempt to negotiate. By my reckoning a $5bil warchest will take about 200 or so days to eliminate, so at most the war will last another year. I have patience, we have set about a task that will take time, one does not abandon a task just because it will take a long time.

As interesting as this thread is I really think it needs an "Unconditonal Surrender" request or it just won't have staying power.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='29 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277791440' post='2353662'] We have provided you an honorable peace that both you and we could say was not motivated by tech bribes or a plea-bargain to be released but, for probably the first time in history, one alliance turning themselves in honorably to acknowledge their actions. [/quote] No you have not provided an honourable peace, otherwise we would have accepted it. What you have provided is a humiliating pre-condition to be met, before you will present your peace terms with a take it or leave it it's not up for discussion attitude. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='29 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277791440' post='2353662'] That being said, even though many people disagree with our current actions that will not make out initial entry aggressive or bandwagoning. [/quote] I disagree, it was obvious bandwagoning, (not that I think there is anything wrong with it.) Not only that, but now Gramlins wants to bandwagon on the Easter Sunday Accords. They think everyone should have no problem letting them bandwagon onto a treaty if they amend it to suit Gramlins. Really, is this what you guys do, try and think of things to do in CN that have never been done before to confirm that you still have some relevance on Planet Bob? [quote name='Matthew PK' date='29 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277791440' post='2353662'] To this day I do not understand why you think we would demand reps or try to humiliate you. That being said, to accept IRON's offer of white peace would be destructive. Your position is one of unwarranted aggression completely without contrition. [/quote] We don't know what you will demand, you won't tell. Therefore, considering what you have so far alluded to, "Unconditional Surrender", which by itself is extremely humiliating there is no telling how humiliating and ridiculous your peace terms would have been. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='29 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277791440' post='2353662'] I will not accept a "white peace" as if you were on equal standings. [/quote] I can understand that, and I agree you are not equal, however I have been unable to convince the governments of IRON/DAWN to withdraw the offer. Perhaps that is because when asked what reps I would ask for I replied "There is nothing Gramlins have that I want." So white peace is still on the table. I trust you will hold out for several more months. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='29 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277791440' post='2353662'] I am bewildered, not angered, by the fact that you have refused our simple path to peace and refused to offer even a bit of contrition. [/quote] All of CN is bewildered why you didn't outline your plan in full for peace. You probably could have had it back when ESA was signed, maybe not, depends on how ridiculous your demands were. From day 1 Gramlins have misjudged the reaction IRON/DAWN and indeed the rest of the alliances in CN would have with their actions. I could say you are completely out of touch with reality, but in truth your grasp of reality is okay, you are however completely out of touch with fantasy, (Cybernations). See you on the battlefield. .

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='28 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1277699235' post='2352454'] I don't necessarily personally agree with the ESA amendment, but there is absolutely no reason why all of the signatories couldn't agree to amend it. [/quote] Really? You actually believe that all the signatories that spent weeks negotiating (yes everyone but Gre negotiated in good faith) the ESA would now agree that the ESA is flawed and needs to be amended to suit Gramlins. Everyone that signed that document considers it a done deal and put to bed. You really think any of them will let you tamper with that document let alone all of them? The signatories will only agree to an amendment if it provides something of value to them. Since there are two sides in the agreement I find it hard to believe that Gremlins can come up with anything that would provide value to both sides. MPK you have to start seeing things from everyone else's perspective and not Gramlins. Gramlins perspective is severely warped and until you realize that just because you want something to happen it won't necessarily come to be. You have to sell your idea and to do that you have to negotiate and compromise, something the Gramlins appear to do very poorly. Absolutely no reason they shouldn't ammend? Turn that around and provide each signatory with a reason how they will benefit if they agree to an amendment. Then you may see the folly of your statement. .

[quote name='Lord Gobb' date='26 June 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1277573696' post='2351059'] As much as I'm glad to see Grämlins' numbers wither to a point where IRON can effectively end this most unfortunate conflict, I can't help but feel a bit disturbed by this here comment.Makes me very unhappy inside to see so much hatred and detestation.No butterflies fly in my belly tonight [/quote] While some posts do show outright hatred, one needs to carefully understand what the intention is of the posts. I sure several of my posts may be considered to show hatred on some level and that could easily be misinterpreted. I do not hate any individual Gramlin, I dislike what they are doing and I dislike how they are playing their hand. So one could say I "hate" their alliance although I would say my dislike of them is not extreme enough to truly be "hate". On an individual level I feel more pity for them. I pity that they did not realize that they would fail in their attempt to bring other world morals to planet Bob. I feel pity that they refuse to negotiate and leave us the only option of war to deal with them. When you leave us only one option don't be surprised that we take that option and use every tactic available to us to prevail in our quest to render Gre harmless. If you won't negotiate, if your not open to discussion then we cannot be free of you until you are rendered harmless. For that you have my pity, and I will send a few nukes as well.

[quote]Ramirus Maximus said. I spent 20 years in US Intelligence, military and civilian. I've taught Constitutional Law, and I've have a library of literally hundreds of books on military history, each of which I've read at least once (it's my major hobby, and one of the reasons I started playing CN to begin with). I'm not boasting when I say that I can easily claim to have a better grasp of the concept than the average 18-year old punk on the internet.[/quote] So the leader of Gramlins has considerable training and experience, you would think that with all that experience he would know that if you want to get someone to surrender you lay your cards on the table and show how good surrender will be for them. Not “Surrender Unconditionally” and then I will tell you your fate. I mean US Intelligence ( what CIA), and with all those books you think he would have read Sun Tsu’s Art of War and remembered [quote]Sun Tsu 36. When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.[/quote] By offering “Unconditional Surrender” and not presenting the terms of peace you pressed too hard and left no road other than continued war. With all your great experience and knowledge you failed to understand what was required to obtain peace and let your ego guide you into a position that was unwinnable. [quote]Ramirus Maximus said. We first requested unconditional surrender on March 27th. If IRON had surrendered then, they would've likely been finished with their peace terms from us by Easter.[/quote] So you threw that all away because you didn’t want to reveal your terms until after surrender was achieved. Terms that were so lenient they could be completed in a week. Well done I say, well done! You have learned to lead your alliance in a manner that all great military leaders would be proud of. You have managed to arrange defeat when victory was within your grasp. Your actions will no doubt cause many to re-evaluate their confidence in US Intelligence and the US Military. It’s a game, learn to play it well or face the consequences. You have no idea how I wish someone with your experience and knowledge could have pulled off obtaining peace before the destruction of your alliance. That fact that 18 year old punks could get the better of you must be a terrible burden to bear. .

Best war declaration ever! [quote]"Put down the fiddle, Nero" [/quote] ROFL One key nation on the way down I'm saving up nukes for the next two on the hit list. I love the bright green glow in the morning. All is right when your enemies are alight. .

[quote name='SynthFG' date='20 June 2010 - 09:07 AM' timestamp='1277039235' post='2343696'] Why would he,He's so far gone now that he might as well see it through to the endWhen you have reduced his nation to 0 infra 0 tech and Gre are down to just him he'll probably still be demanding your unconditional surrender [/quote] You Sir are probably correct. The only hope of saving Gremlins lies in their membership electing better government and I do not see that happening.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='19 June 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1277002092' post='2343339'] I am not going to tell you the terms until you surrender. [/quote] And if you don't start playing the game my way I'm taking my ball and going home. Can Gremlins get anymore childish?

Everyone seems to be in a big hurry for us to end the war. Really, have you got something else that needs doing but requires this war to be over. The only thing I can think of is paying off reps. On that note here is probably the best argument why reps should not be paid early. By the Easter Sunday Accords all the parties that signed agreed to peace and therefore none of our previous attackers can declare war on IRON/DAWN or they viloate the ESA. If however we go ahead and pay off the reps then the ESA are terminated. That means all signatories could once again declare and attack us. If the war with Gramlins does not end before reps are finished then we could expect to be attacked by MHA and any other allinace that supports Gramlins, treaty or no treaty. By not paying reps we are extending the length of its agreement and therefore are preventing attacks by any of the signantories. While I doubt the risk of attack would be high, why subject oneself to that risk if we have guarantee. So its not that we can't begin payments, it would be strategically risky to open oursleves up to attack while Gramlins continue to keep us at war. The war is about to enter an interesting phase with us hitting larger 80kNS plus Gramlin nations. Ramirus is actually low man in the rankings and MPK is only 3rd in order of rank (not counting those in PM). So sit back enjoy our summer of war. We plan too.

[quote name='franciscus' date='18 June 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1276903279' post='2342302'] I know, I feel like whipping him regularly too. He's not whining, that's just his voice. We have nothing better to do. [/quote] Actually every time Frannie brings out her whip Shilo gets a big smile on his face, and he's not the only one. All this talk about the past and who should have done what and who did what is rather pointless. The past is done it can't be changed. All you can do is change what is happening right now and plan for the future. My orginal thoughts was that Gramlins might take a year or longer to take down. Now I'm thinking we are entering a significant phase in the war. Matt Miller has shown that it only takes about two rounds of war to bring a 80kNS nation down to 25kNS. At 25kNS there are about 50 of us (the meat grinders). I suspect in the next round the last 80kNS Gremlins will be fed to the meat grinders and then it's on to the 100kNS nations. I guess the question is will we continue to drag them down 2 or 3 at a time or will we suddenly blitz the remaining nations and have one big final dustup. Either way it now looks like by the end of the summer all of the Gramlins could be fed through the meat grinder and then it's just a matter eating through their warchests. Perhaps we will have peace by Christmas, which is something all soldiers hope for.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='18 June 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1276879442' post='2341989'][quote name='amad123' date='18 June 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1276878158' post='2341966'] Guess which alliance has only [size="6"][b]26 [/b][/size]members now? [/quote] Poor FCC's been on a decline for a while. [/quote] Sorry, no soup for you!

Guess which alliance has only [size="6"][b]26 [/b][/size]members now?

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1276834309' post='2341512'] What I don't understand is what a group like IRON has/had to fear from it. [/quote] IRON and DAWN are so afraid of your terms we feel the only course of action is to nuke you. ROFL. We have never been afraid of your terms. We just don't like the process you have defined to get them. Put them on the table so we can reject them outright like any other rational alliance or are you too afraid of the ridicule that will result. I'm calling your bluff Matthew"Reading Comprehension"PK, let's see your terms or are you too afraid to show them. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1276835212' post='2341540'] I have stated multiple times that the bribes paid to other alliance for your release are insufficient. [/quote] We need to start a Gramlenese Dictionary so that everyone can understand Gramlins definition of common English words. Here are a few entries. "Unconditional Surrender" = Ceasefire, since by Gre you can always go back to war if you don't like the following peace terms. "Bribes" - War Reparations as illustrated above. "Reading Comprehension" - You must use Gre definitions when reading Gre posts. "Paperless'' - Gremlins don't sign treaties, they feel free to bandwagon in on any war they want to. They also can't sign Peace treaties so it's war to the death. "Arrogance" It's what all alliances display that are morally inferior to Gramlins. There must be more but those come to me quickly. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1276835212' post='2341540'] IRON's offer of white peace to GRE is unacceptable. [/quote] "Gramlins follows their Codex. We can't offer terms we would find unacceptable to us." Now you know why Gremlins only offers "Unconditional Surrender" it's the only condition they find acceptable. Thus war will continue as IRON and DAWN will not lower themselves to offer Gre "Unconditional Surrender". [quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1276835212' post='2341540'] I don't think GRE "deserves" anything. This isn't about what GRE "deserves" but what should be required of IRON. [/quote] "It's not me. It's all about you. If you would just prostrate yourself before us you will see that Gremlins are morally and ethically superior to not only IRON/DAWN but every other alliance on planet Bob, it's why we carry on alone." lol and MPK calls DAWN an arrogant alliance. Oh, MPK take the "White Peace" offer it meets your requirement quoted above. Let IRON worry about what they deserve, you concern yourself with what Gremlins deserves. The general consensus on Planet Bob is you aren't capable of determining what you deserve never mind any other alliance. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1276835212' post='2341540'] There is nothing unreasonable about our terms. I implore you to prove otherwise.[/quote] Beautiful, or should I say "Adorable" a brilliant statement since Gremlins has never presented their terms. ROFL, keep these coming Matt. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='18 June 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1276839596' post='2341621'] I, for one, think some accountability would do them good... it would do a lot of people some good. [/quote] I must agree with you once more although it does cause me to drink more than is healthy. IRON/DAWN will hold Gramlins accountable for their incredibly unreasonable determination to force an "Unconditional Surrender". As for our accountability for going to war, as long as we are at war with Gramlins, we can avoid paying reps and remain unaccountable for it. Nice play Gramlins, doing the exact opposite of your intention. A piece of advice, to hold us accountable you actually have to win the war. We win, you get held accountable. I detect in MPK's posts the beginnings of the realization that they are losing the war. It should not be too long before he starts saying that winning the war was never their intention, it was morally more right to lose than take "White Peace". It's a game MPK, real world morals don't need to apply, I can choose to play the game as an evil morally bankrupt nation and enjoy every minute of it. Deal with it. .

[font="Arial"][font="Arial"][quote name='Matthew PK' date='13 June 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1276474961' post='2336517'] Be sure to let me know more details so that we might properly align our actions with a strategy more fitting to your vision. [b]Particularly, let me know when there is a single nation in IRON within my range.[/b] [/quote] [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] First: I may have been rash at the time and circumstances are apt to change over the scope of a few months. [/quote] The above quote was from only a few days ago. Bold emphasis is mine. Have things gone down hill that fast for Gramlins or are you just holding on to your infra a little bit longer. Note that you said a "nation in IRON", not an IRON nation. To quote that infamous saying "Reading Comprehension". So the nations wearing the IRON AA in your range qualify even if they were just ghosting. The fact that they are real members is immaterial to your statement. Perhaps you can claim you just wanted to "know" about them you never had any intention of attacking. If Gremlins would actually come forward and say "We have no intention of attacking any IRON or DAWN nation for the duration of the conflict." I could probably arrange for IRON and DAWN to stop attacking Gramlin nations. This does pose other problems since the War would not be over and technically reps would not need to start flowing, but it would save your pixels and allow IRON nations to leave PM. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] We elected a conclave that we entrust to issue orders like when to declare war and the appropriate targets. [/quote] Would that conclave be made up your members that are 22 & 23 days inactive? That might explain the lack of follow through. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] You're naive if you think there was no due-diligence on IRON's treaty partners. [/quote] So let me get this straight, you checked out IRON's treaty partners before you declared war on them. Saw that they had a treaty with DAWN, checked out DAWN and saw a 10 member alliance and thought "Pffft" they are inconsequential, however when DAWN counter attacked and you actually lost some precious pixels you were enraged that we didn't advise you we were going to counter attack. ROFL. Okay let me make this clear. [b]"I will attack both you and Ramirus as soon as you drop down within range." [/b] There, is that enough advance notice for you. I will also encourage other DAWN members to attack any Gre nation within range until peace is declared. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] Nobody is complaining that DAWN attacked GRE; even though you seem to claim that we are. [/quote] No you are claiming that you want advance notice of us counter attacking you when our MDoAP clearly states that we will, and as you have stated you were aware of our treaty and considered us inconsequential. So your holding us to war because we did what we said we would do, you knew we would, but you wanted a personal phone call or a "By your leave". ROFL Gre sure sit on a pretty high horse. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] In response to DAWN's ill-placed arrogance.... [/quote] Any arrogance you attribute to DAWN from any of my posts is misplaced. The arrogance is mine personally, all mine. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='17 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1276752063' post='2340365'] In my personal opinion DAWN is only still at war with GRE because GRE is still at war with IRON. [/quote] It's taken well over 200 pages but finally MPK has said something I can fully agree with and support. Now I think I need a stiff drink. [/font][/font]