So I am on a ZI list

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Hymenbreach' timestamp='1279962729' post='2387309']
Is it possible for both sides to lose?
[/quote]
That's actually what happens when an alliance ZIs someone, unless the target doesn't fight back. So yes.

[iamthey]

Two things.

1) What happens if he gets his WRC then deletes all his infra?

2) Not sure if Chief was actually raiding when he was attacked but why would you defend a raider who was attacked while raiding? In their gambit to acquire maybe 40-70 pieces of tech over a period of a week, aren't they taking an inherent risk that their target might escalate the war, have a magic warchest, or that other independent nations or alliances might attack the raider in defense of the victim? If this silly man who is now in PM, should take responsibility for his actions, shouldn't a raider take individual responsibility for their actions and whatever consequences they have?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1279975991' post='2387388']
Two things.

1) What happens if he gets his WRC then deletes all his infra?

2) Not sure if Chief was actually raiding when he was attacked but why would you defend a raider who was attacked while raiding? In their gambit to acquire maybe 40-70 pieces of tech over a period of a week, aren't they taking an inherent risk that their target might escalate the war, have a magic warchest, or that other independent nations or alliances might attack the raider in defense of the victim? If this silly man who is now in PM, should take responsibility for his actions, shouldn't a raider take individual responsibility for their actions and whatever consequences they have?
[/quote]

^ This guy gets it.

I read it somewhere on a blog or topic about the rights everyone has, it goes something like this:

*\m/ has the right to do tech raids, but must accept any and all consequences of its acttions.
*I have the right to do what I did, but must accept any and all consequences of my actions.

It was basically stated something like that and that is what this situation is.

[u][b]My peace mode timeline:[/b][/u]

*Order on Chief
*Chief is hit
*\m/ comes to #FAR and discussion takes place
*Sir Exodus and I argue and are at odds about the situation and my tone towards \m/.
*To try and calm him down I tell him I ordered the raids and not to worry because things will get peaced out and minor reps sent.
*Sir Exodus does not calm down and at the time I accused him of insulting me by his K/B actions and words in private.
*I had enough and resigned from FAR and assumed right that they would agree on reps for Chief and this would be over.
*I enter peace mode to wait and explore alliance options or cool off and go back to FAR.
*Next day I quickly click click click and pay my bills and ! much higher than normal. I had tons of messages so didn't check because I assumed it was all recruitment or people wanting to know what is going on with me. Read and see the sanctions/no trades.
*I figure my actions were turned over to \m/.

So as you can see, I did not go to peace prior to any of this nor did I intend on leaving FAR but things happened too quickly and things are what they are now.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Fernando12

[Neo Uruk]

Nobody sympathizes. Stop grandstanding.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279978562' post='2387401']
^ This guy gets it.

I read it somewhere on a blog or topic about the rights everyone has, it goes something like this:

*\m/ has the right to do tech raids, but must accept any and all consequences of its acttions.
*I have the right to do what I did, but must accept any and all consequences of my actions.

It was basically stated something like that and that is what this situation is.

[u][b]My peace mode timeline:[/b][/u]

*Order on Chief
*Chief is hit
*\m/ comes to #FAR and discussion takes place
*Sir Exodus and I argue and are at odds about the situation and my tone towards \m/.
*To try and calm him down I tell him I ordered the raids and not to worry because things will get peaced out and minor reps sent.
*Sir Exodus does not calm down and at the time I accused him of insulting me by his K/B actions and words in private.
*I had enough and resigned from FAR and assumed right that they would agree on reps for Chief and this would be over.
*I enter peace mode to wait and explore alliance options or cool off and go back to FAR.
*Next day I quickly click click click and pay my bills and ! much higher than normal. I had tons of messages so didn't check because I assumed it was all recruitment or people wanting to know what is going on with me. Read and see the sanctions/no trades.
*I figure my actions were turned over to \m/.

So as you can see, I did not go to peace prior to any of this nor did I intend on leaving FAR but things happened too quickly and things are what they are now.
[/quote]


[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1279981316' post='2387418']
Nobody sympathizes. Stop grandstanding.
[/quote]

Where does anyone see me asking for sympathy about my ZI?

Stop being lazy and read the whole damn topic/posts and don't assume what isn't.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279983201' post='2387429']
Where does anyone see me asking for sympathy about my ZI?

Stop being lazy and read the whole damn topic/posts and don't assume what isn't.
[/quote]
"I go to the OWF not for sympathy for my agenda but because everyone [i]needs[/i] to know that I'm getting ZI'd, along with the other 23,000 or so people's status!"

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1279983556' post='2387430']
"I go to the OWF not for sympathy for my agenda but because everyone [i]needs[/i] to know that I'm getting ZI'd, along with the other 23,000 or so people's status!"
[/quote]

The point of you reaching and using the sympathy and grand standing lines is because you cannot argue intelligently about what I said in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89459&view=findpost&p=2387401"]Post #178[/url] so you are posting garbage to get it buried. Its what most everyone does around here. Post post post quickly so no one sees truths. Now, I predict someone will argue me this post instead of 178.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279984569' post='2387435']
The point of you reaching and using the sympathy and grand standing lines is because you cannot argue intelligently about what I said in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89459&view=findpost&p=2387401"]Post #178[/url] so you are posting garbage to get it buried. Its what most everyone does around here. Post post post quickly so no one sees truths. Now, I predict someone will argue me this post instead of 178.
[/quote]

Where you said they want an apology AND to ZI you, all I see is, is that the apology is part of the appeal process to getting ZI'd.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but not you Fernando12, because I tire of seeing you post the same things over and over in a feeble attempt to rally CN at your side.

[Freelancer]

Where's the \M/ game show when you need it? This would have made a fantastic episode.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279984569' post='2387435']
The point of you reaching and using the sympathy and grand standing lines is because you cannot argue intelligently about what I said in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89459&view=findpost&p=2387401"]Post #178[/url] so you are posting garbage to get it buried. Its what most everyone does around here. Post post post quickly so no one sees truths. Now, I predict someone will argue me this post instead of 178.
[/quote]
What is there to argue in that specific post? It just proves that you did x events in x order. The general population doesn't like what you did. Get over it. Your continued display of arrogance/incompetence and whatever else you're doing is getting pathetic.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Neo Uruk

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1279984951' post='2387437']
Where you said they want an apology AND to ZI you, all I see is, is that the apology is part of the appeal process to getting ZI'd.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but not you Fernando12, because I tire of seeing you post the same things over and over in a feeble attempt to rally CN at your side.
[/quote]

I can apologize and do other things they specify to be removed from ZI to spare my nation its destruction.

Marx stated that the apology could even be private. But, the point is everyone will know I backed down on my principles if I am released from ZI and have all or half or 25% of my infra left. People will know I bent and apologized.

I will not apologize privately or publicly to \m/.

Also, view in those logs between Marx and myself. He states he wants the apology because of how I insist on not giving one. Indirectly, he is saying that ZI is the only option because he knows I won't apologize.

So it is what it is.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Fernando12

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279978562' post='2387401']
[u][b]My peace mode timeline:[/b][/u]

*Order on Chief
*Chief is hit
*\m/ comes to #FAR and discussion takes place
*Sir Exodus and I argue and are at odds about the situation and my tone towards \m/.
*To try and calm him down I tell him I ordered the raids and not to worry because things will get peaced out and minor reps sent.
*Sir Exodus does not calm down and at the time I accused him of insulting me by his K/B actions and words in private.
*I had enough and resigned from FAR and assumed right that they would agree on reps for Chief and this would be over.
*I enter peace mode to wait and explore alliance options or cool off and go back to FAR.
*Next day I quickly click click click and pay my bills and ! much higher than normal. I had tons of messages so didn't check because I assumed it was all recruitment or people wanting to know what is going on with me. Read and see the sanctions/no trades.
*I figure my actions were turned over to \m/.

So as you can see, I did not go to peace prior to any of this nor did I intend on leaving FAR but things happened too quickly and things are what they are now.
[/quote]

Endangered your own alliance? Check.
Acted like an idiot? Check.
Came crying to an unsympathetic public? Check.



All you have done is confirm everything that has been said about you. Thanks for clearing it up, though.

[Mathias]

We get it, you won't apologize. So just get out of peace mode, take your ZI, and quit acting like people here sympathize with you.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279985300' post='2387441']
I can apologize and do other things they specify to be removed from ZI to spare my nation its destruction.

Marx stated that the apology could even be private. But, the point is everyone will know I backed down on my principles if I am released from ZI and have all or half or 25% of my infra left. People will know I bent and apologized.

I will not apologize privately or publicly to \m/.

Also, view in those logs between Marx and myself. He states he wants the apology because of how I insist on not giving one. Indirectly, he is saying that ZI is the only option because he knows I won't apologize.

So it is what it is.
[/quote]

Okay, either take your ZI and stop whining, or go apologize and lose some e-honor and stop whining. tia

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1279975991' post='2387388']
Two things.

1) What happens if he gets his WRC then deletes all his infra?

2) Not sure if Chief was actually raiding when he was attacked but why would you defend a raider who was attacked while raiding? In their gambit to acquire maybe 40-70 pieces of tech over a period of a week, aren't they taking an inherent risk that their target might escalate the war, have a magic warchest, or that other independent nations or alliances might attack the raider in defense of the victim? If this silly man who is now in PM, should take responsibility for his actions, shouldn't a raider take individual responsibility for their actions and whatever consequences they have?
[/quote]

It's not so much the rogue attacks as Fernando's complete cowardice and disregard for his own alliance's safety that is leading us to punish him heavily. We've had people go rogue and we've had people rogue us before. It's usually a pretty easy thing. But this time is different.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1279994545' post='2387557']
Okay, either take your ZI and stop whining, or go apologize and lose some e-honor and stop whining. tia
[/quote]

Will take my ZI, but like I said it will be on my timetable. Tonight could be the night or not. Locked in peace mode still today.


[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1279994945' post='2387564']
It's not so much the rogue attacks as Fernando's complete cowardice and disregard for his own alliance's safety that is leading us to punish him heavily. We've had people go rogue and we've had people rogue us before. It's usually a pretty easy thing. But this time is different.
[/quote]

How is it different? Roguery is roguery ain't it?

Edited July 24, 2010 by Fernando12

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279995135' post='2387567']
Will take my ZI, but like I said it will be on my timetable. Tonight could be the night or not. Locked in peace mode still today.




How is it different? Roguery is roguery ain't it?
[/quote]

I'd agree though you threw your entire alliance in front of a bus at the last moment while standing on the curb watching it happen, even antagonizing the bus driver, from what you thought to be a safe distance. And now you're all surprised that the bus driver stopped the bus, got out and is doing something about it. If you had just decided to attack us yourself instead of abusing the trust you had somehow earned with FAR as their leader then you'd probably be in a position where 2-3 rounds of wars and some sanctions would be all you got after making an appeal.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Emperor Marx

[bcortell]

So Fernando, it seems you ordered the attack because you thought Chief hit a guy way smaller than him, then bought up infra. Of course, this has been disproven (a post which you didn't respond to, by the way). The guy got hit than sold a ton of infra. Are you not sorry for declaring war on mistaken principals?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1280005407' post='2387678']
So Fernando, it seems you ordered the attack because you thought Chief hit a guy way smaller than him, then bought up infra. Of course, this has been disproven (a post which you didn't respond to, by the way). The guy got hit than sold a ton of infra. Are you not sorry for declaring war on mistaken principals?
[/quote]
Chief was raiding which is against my principles (lets not debate raiding is it right or wrong). The main factor for my order was the disdain I have for \m/ and the mixture of garbage alliances they formed from. I am and have been getting criticism for how I handled the entire thing. Well deserved. Now I have to do what I have to do.

[bcortell]

Then why do you make a thread about it? Why go into their channel? Etc..

Accept it and move on. There was no need to make a thread about it and all this other stuff. No need to make a big headline saying you're now getting PZI'ed.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1280008074' post='2387712']
Then why do you make a thread about it? Why go into their channel? Etc..

Accept it and move on. There was no need to make a thread about it and all this other stuff. No need to make a big headline saying you're now getting PZI'ed.
[/quote]


Made a thread just because I can. What's the point of just keeping it quiet. This is going to be an interesting ride.

I went to their channel to see what the terms process and get it straight from Marx.

I would like the terms that are going to be asked of me, line by line. The way it is now its still up in the air as to what will be the final terms.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1280005854' post='2387689']
Chief was raiding which is against my principles (lets not debate raiding is it right or wrong). The main factor for my order was the disdain I have for \m/ and the mixture of garbage alliances they formed from. I am and have been getting criticism for how I handled the entire thing. Well deserved. Now I have to do what I have to do.
[/quote]
Ive tech raided and i support \m/ in their tech raiding. Can i haz a rogue too? im not hard to find...

btw you completely ignored my post several pages back about threatening senators

[quote]Then why do you make a thread about it? Why go into their channel? Etc.. [/quote]
Because he figures with the red raiding safari going on and everyone suddenly becoming moralists about tech raiding that he could garner just enough people to help him that this would get him out of his current situation. HOWEVER the tables have promptly turned on him so now hes putting his fingers in his ears and screaming LALALAL LOOK HOW MUCH I DONT CARE THAT I GET ZI'D LALALALALAL

Edited July 24, 2010 by wickedj

[Fernando12]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1280009340' post='2387732']
Ive tech raided and i support \m/ in their tech raiding. Can i haz a rogue too? im not hard to find...

btw you completely ignored my post several pages back about threatening senators
[/quote]

Don't feel bad, your not the only one I ignored. But I will answer that. People can rip me for this I suppose but I did tell Fishguts [b]MY[/b] blue team senator that I would campaign for his removal if he didn't remove the sanction key word is [i]elected[/i] and no threat of attack to his nation was ever made only to his seat. ELECTED, he is not a king.

You prolly know where to go to get on the list. But I hear its filled for the rest of the year. Maybe offer people tech for their spot in line?

[maicke]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1279995135' post='2387567']
Will take my ZI, but like I said it will be on my timetable. Tonight could be the night or not. Locked in peace mode still today.




How is it different? Roguery is roguery ain't it?
[/quote]
How is it different? Most rouges do the fighting themselves, instead of throwing a couple allies in front of them. In fact, that's why they are called rouges. Because they do the fighting, not someone else. You aren't a rouge, you are a coward. And cowardice is only cowardice, not roguery.
If you really wanted to see Chief punished, why didn't you just declare on him yourself in the first place? They always say, 'If you want something done right, do it yourself'. It would have been 3 v 1 instead of 2 v 1 and you would have done a lot more damage. Plus, you wouldn't have looked like such a coward and more like the rouge you claim to be.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='maicke' timestamp='1280010217' post='2387744']
How is it different? Most rouges do the fighting themselves, instead of throwing a couple allies in front of them. In fact, that's why they are called rouges. Because they do the fighting, not someone else. You aren't a rouge, you are a coward. And cowardice is only cowardice, not roguery.
If you really wanted to see Chief punished, why didn't you just declare on him yourself in the first place? They always say, 'If you want something done right, do it yourself'. It would have been 3 v 1 instead of 2 v 1 and you would have done a lot more damage. Plus, you wouldn't have looked like such a coward and more like the rouge you claim to be.
[/quote]

Did you see how it hapened? Quit your selective reading and go back to post 178. I was in peace mode after the fact. Not before the order, during the attacks, while discussions in #FAR, etc.
[b]Edit:[/b]Your valid point is that yes you are correct I should have done it myself from the start but I will be doing it eventually.

ooc cant leave peace mode as the game locks you there for days, so i'm stuck there /ooc

But, now as I am hearing many people want a shot at me, I may do things tonight or wait and build up as much as I can to do as much damage as I can.

I will come out of peace mode tonight if Marx agrees that its ZI only and its over. They request more then I'll sit and wait and build and become as lethal as I possibly can. But as I get to the lower ranges, unless people sell to follow me then I'll be ripping nations apart in the lower ranges if they attack me.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Fernando12