IRON Notice

[ironchef]

[quote name='Hogosha' date='18 July 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1279490864' post='2377831']
You'd be surprised.



Thank you, ironchef, I'm sure you're speaking just for yourself and not for IRON or TORN here...
[/quote]

I would never speak for IRON. Just how I see it. Although it was not all fat, sometimes you must excise a tumor along with the fat.

[Hakim]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 July 2010 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1279496680' post='2377929']
I would never speak for IRON. Just how I see it. Although it was not all fat, sometimes you must excise a tumor along with the fat.
[/quote]

Someone has a case of the Mondays....

[HeRo1]

Good luck IRON

[ironchef]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' date='18 July 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1279496360' post='2377919']
I don't think you could have missed the point any more if you tried.

It's not about making multiple posts, and it's clear a lot of the alliances who were cancelled on don't view IRON as a friend. The meat of the matter is thus: cancelling on your allies en masse has [i]never[/i] been an acceptable move. I [i]guarantee[/i] that had MK done such a thing (not that we ever would), you would be skinning us alive. I'm disappointed that anyone is trying to make it out to be fine and dandy. I mean, hell, I hold no love for any of the alliances IRON cancelled on, and I [i]still[/i] think it was a rotten thing to do. Blah, blah, realpolitik, whatever. Bailing on your friends will gain you no respect when push comes to shove.
[/quote]

Your right, I’m sure MK would have made a thread for each one on the day it was to be canceled thus my statement is right on the mark. IRON did this in a most efficient way, just because you don’t like how it was done does not make it wrong. As for when push comes to shove I think they are quite capable of handling things as they stand now. Question is who is planning to push and shove?

[Kim Jaym Il]

[quote name='SpoiL' date='18 July 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1279495992' post='2377913']
IRON clearly should have canceled these treaties on the brink of a large scale war in order to qualify up to ODN's standards.
[/quote]

You know, I find this particular post hilarious after having read back through some of the old NoCB war threads.

You were pretty much the spokesman for pushing the legitimacy of ODN bailing on Polar, and now you are trying to take shots at them for it?

[eejack]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 July 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1279496680' post='2377929']
I would never speak for IRON. Just how I see it. Although it was not all fat, sometimes you must excise a tumor along with the fat.
[/quote]

Either you just called Old Guard fat or a tumor. Either is out of line. While I appreciate that you have a need to say something, please be kind enough to direct your vitriol somewhere else.

Thanks,

EEjack

[wickedj]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='18 July 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1279483161' post='2377670']
Third power sphere? SF/CnG is hardly two separate spheres. Duckroll is 1/6 the size of SF/CnG, and they don't have any advantage over SF/CnG like Citadel did (ANS). What the most telling thing about your post though is how quick you are to transition from "ex-Heg is our main threat" to "Duckroll is our main threat".
[/quote]
I realize FA is your weak point but theres this one alliance..theyre big and red and id say they represent a 'power sphere'

[StevieG]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' date='19 July 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1279496360' post='2377919']
I don't think you could have missed the point any more if you tried.

It's not about making multiple posts, and it's clear a lot of the alliances who were cancelled on don't view IRON as a friend. The meat of the matter is thus: cancelling on your allies en masse has [i]never[/i] been an acceptable move. I [i]guarantee[/i] that had MK done such a thing (not that we ever would), you would be skinning us alive. I'm disappointed that anyone is trying to make it out to be fine and dandy. I mean, hell, I hold no love for any of the alliances IRON cancelled on, and I [i]still[/i] think it was a rotten thing to do. Blah, blah, realpolitik, whatever. Bailing on your friends will gain you no respect when push comes to shove.
[/quote]

Bailing on friends? Am I to assume that a major war has just started?

IRON is looking to forge a new path with close, strong knit allies it would seem. When the connection isnt there any more, why keep the treaty?

Its a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont, coming from you.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Jaymjaym' date='18 July 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1279497666' post='2377943']
You know, I find this particular post hilarious after having read back through some of the old NoCB war threads.

You were pretty much the spokesman for pushing the legitimacy of ODN bailing on Polar, and now you are trying to take shots at them for it?
[/quote]
Except ODN bailed on Polar on the eve of war (or during it, I forgot the details). Whereas IRON is making these moves without any war in sight.

Frankly (speaking now to the OWF in general rather than you personally), no matter your opinion of IRON's moves overall you must admit that if there is any time to cancel a treaty, times of relatively calm waters is the best time to do it.

Perhaps some of the peanut gallery would approve more if IRON waited until the beginning of conflict to issue these cancellations?

[Warden]

[quote name='StevieG' date='18 July 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1279497960' post='2377952']
Bailing on friends? Am I to assume that a major war has just started?

IRON is looking to forge a new path with close, strong knit allies it would seem. When the connection isnt there any more, why keep the treaty?

Its a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont, coming from you.
[/quote]

Connection was very much there between us and IRON

[StevieG]

[quote name='Warden' date='19 July 2010 - 01:13 PM' timestamp='1279498386' post='2377960']
Connection was very much there between us and IRON
[/quote]

Well, I am sorry then. Maybe the wound can be mended.

The connection between TORN and NATO was no longer, partly due to us as well. It wasnt a snap of the finger decision to drop our treaty with you either.

[ironchef]

[quote name='EEjack' date='18 July 2010 - 05:02 PM' timestamp='1279497750' post='2377948']
Either you just called Old Guard fat or a tumor. Either is out of line. While I appreciate that you have a need to say something, please be kind enough to direct your vitriol somewhere else.

Thanks,

EEjack
[/quote]

I'm a chef EEjack, and as everyone knows there is nothing we love more than pork fat. Don’t be so fast to think I see OG as something not useful.
IRON has done what they feel is best for thier alliance and I'm sure OG will continue on as they have always done. Best of luck to the both of you.

o/ pork fat

[Lenny N Karl]

Good luck on your future path IRON. It was a good run.

There is way too much negativity and baseless speculation being done by parties not involved in this matter. Your opinions have never mattered, never will. But I am glad that this was able to put the smallest of spark into your thickened skulls if only for the day.

See ya around IRON o>

[eejack]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 July 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1279498724' post='2377969']
I'm a chef EEjack, and as everyone knows there is nothing we love more than pork fat. Don’t be so fast to think I see OG as something not useful.
IRON has done what they feel is best for thier alliance and I'm sure OG will continue on as they have always done. Best of luck to the both of you.

o/ pork fat
[/quote]

I am quite the fan of the can o' bacon grease on the stove myself.

( a hankering for biscuits and gravy now )

o/ pork fat

EEjack

[shilo]

A typical case of criticizing something not for the content of the OP, rather for the AA. We all know that nothing could satisfy the usual haters, so obviously, it would be a waste of energy and time to even think about it.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='wickedj' date='19 July 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1279497912' post='2377949']
I realize FA is your weak point but theres this one alliance..theyre big and red and id say they represent a 'power sphere'
[/quote]

You're talking about the Cult of Justitia, aren't you...

Can't fool me.

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 July 2010 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1279497176' post='2377936']
Your right, I’m sure MK would have made a thread for each one on the day it was to be canceled thus my statement is right on the mark. IRON did this in a most efficient way, just because you don’t like how it was done does not make it wrong. As for when push comes to shove I think they are quite capable of handling things as they stand now. Question is who is planning to push and shove?
[/quote]
Are you really trying to turn this into a semantics debate? "When push comes to shove" is a figure of speech -- you know that as well as I do. You also know that my statement had nothing to do with the number of threads being made.

I can't actually believe you watch someone turn their back on friends they had had for years and [i]applaud them for their efficiency![/i]

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' date='18 July 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1279499510' post='2377986']
Are you really trying to turn this into a semantics debate? "When push comes to shove" is a figure of speech -- you know that as well as I do. You also know that my statement had nothing to do with the number of threads being made.

I can't actually believe you watch someone turn their back on friends they had had for years and [i]applaud them for their efficiency![/i]
[/quote]
At this point if I didn't know any better I'd think you were just sore that the whole unified ex-Hegemony boogeyman is becoming less and less plausible.

[StevieG]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' date='19 July 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1279499510' post='2377986']
Are you really trying to turn this into a semantics debate? "When push comes to shove" is a figure of speech -- you know that as well as I do. You also know that my statement had nothing to do with the number of threads being made.

I can't actually believe you watch someone turn their back on friends they had had for years and [i]applaud them for their efficiency![/i]
[/quote]

So treaties should stay forever?

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='Some-Guy' date='18 July 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1279499373' post='2377983']
You're talking about the Cult of Justitia, aren't you...

Can't fool me.
[/quote]

Definitely CoJ. Who else could it be?

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='18 July 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1279485322' post='2377739']
The hails are more of an indication of maintaining decorum. You are correct, you dont need treaties to defend your friends. [b]You also dont need to cancel treaties with great friends to change your FA direction[/b]. See, that dance works 2 ways, of course, you already knew it did, its just that the traffic coming on the other way on that street did not support your position. To be frank, the ONLY reason for these cancellations are to be able to change a direction without having to be BOUND to protect these wonderful terrific friends that you hold oh so much love for. Give me a break.
[/quote]


Actually I would put forth the supposition that one generaly DOES need to do just that. Especially if those other friends dont want to go along with w/e new FA path chosen.

I honestly dont know if that was the case with these cancelations, I really dont, but my statement remains the same.

Edited July 19, 2010 by chefjoe

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='18 July 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1279499664' post='2377994']
Actually I would put forth the supposition that one generaly DOES need to do just that. Especially if those other friends dont want to go along with w/e new FA path chosen.

I honestly dont know if that was the case with these cancelations, I really dont, but my statement remains the same.
[/quote]

I agree with cheffy. If you devise a new FA plan, you must then look and see if your current situation fits the goal. If it doesn't, you have to cut out the excess in order to achieve.

[Kochers]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 July 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1279496680' post='2377929']
I would never speak for IRON. Just how I see it. Although it was not all fat, sometimes you must excise a tumor along with the fat.
[/quote]
[quote name='EEjack' date='18 July 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1279497750' post='2377948']
Either you just called Old Guard [b](along with NATO, MCXA, Echelon, and the Legion)[/b] fat or a tumor. Either is out of line.
[/quote]

[quote name='StevieG' date='18 July 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1279497960' post='2377952']
Bailing on friends? Am I to assume that a major war has just started?

IRON is looking to forge a new path with close, strong knit allies it would seem. When the connection isnt there any more, why keep the treaty?

Its a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont, coming from you.
[/quote]
Then why was IRON previously making the argument that their friendship was still very much alive. Besides the fact that their "friends" contradicted that statement.

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 July 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1279498358' post='2377959']
Except ODN bailed on Polar on the eve of war (or during it, I forgot the details). Whereas IRON is making these moves without any war in sight.

Frankly (speaking now to the OWF in general rather than you personally), no matter your opinion of IRON's moves overall you must admit that if there is any time to cancel a treaty, times of relatively calm waters is the best time to do it.

Perhaps some of the peanut gallery would approve more if IRON waited until the beginning of conflict to issue these cancellations?
[/quote]
It would be much more interesting

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 July 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1279499633' post='2377991']
At this point if I didn't know any better I'd think you were just sore that the whole unified ex-Hegemony boogeyman is becoming less and less plausible.
[/quote]
Except myself and other "ex-heg"ers agree with him. Next point, please.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='Jaymjaym' date='18 July 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1279497666' post='2377943']
You were pretty much the spokesman for pushing the legitimacy of ODN bailing on Polar, and now you are trying to take shots at them for it?
[/quote]

A full time job of which I'm thankfully no longer employed, let me tell you.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Kochers' date='18 July 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1279500106' post='2378002']
Then why was IRON previously making the argument that their friendship was still very much alive. Besides the fact that their "friends" contradicted that statement.[/quote]

Maybe because they (IRON) are closing a door and not locking it? What those affected say in return (particularly individual nation leaders) isn't controllable by IRON.

It could be at some future date circumstances may lead to a renewal of treaties. Just not right now.


EDIT: clarity

Edited July 19, 2010 by ChairmanHal