Joint NATO/IRON/TOP Announcement

[Kzoppistan]

Does Zenith offer reparations for things non-government members do before going rogue after they've been deleted?

Also, as for the apology, you might want to read the thread:

Before going rogue but after they've been deleted? That doesn't make any sense.

As for the thread you linked, a good start, but hardly enough in light of the hypocrisy. I find it highly unlikely that no one in RoK knew about this, and this responses is a quick face saving gesure. Without any logs proving otherwise, yet, I'll leave it at that.

RoK, if you you know what's right, a withdraw from hostilities and white peace might be in your best interest.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[WarriorConcept]

My point in this response is asking whether or not you are an admin on RoK forums?

Becuase if not you have NO idea what access he may or may not have.

He does and everyone does. Mainly because RoK govt already did say so.

[Mind Virus]

/thread right here

PROVE to us that Rishnokof didn't have a brother or roommate.

Yeehaw for diverting arguments.

Or nation was not gifted to him.

[The AUT]

Zero Hour received their orders to spy from mhawk and the government of the Phoenix Federation, whereas rishnokof did it of his own accord. I'm not seeing anything that incriminates Ragnarok, as an alliance.

That said, it is unfortunate that your alliances were spied upon, and I'm glad that the perpetrator has been dealt with.

He was banned for breaking the rules.

Rishnokof clearly had a roommate, too. Or maybe a little brother. It's hard to tell.

mhawk probably had people after him, or maybe an entire alliance. Kind of easy to tell.

Edited January 1, 2010 by The AUT

[AirMe]

Ender was a high ranking senior member of IRON before he hacked the NPO forums. While this happened after he resigned his position in IRON I can only assume that IRON was aware of his plot and would expect that corrective action has been taken.

IRON should take a self reflective look at themselves before condemning others.

/parody

See, I can make a big deal with a bunch of circumstantial evidence.

This incident was 3 years ago.

At least when others accuse of spying they have had actual solid evidence to base things on other than assumptions.

Edited January 1, 2010 by AirMe

[SpacingOutMan]

Beforing going rogue but after they've been deleted? That doesn't make any sense.

As for the thread you linked, a good start, but hardly enough in light of the hypocrisy. I find it highly unlikely that no one in RoK knew about this, and this responses is a quick face saving gesure. Without any logs proving otherwise, yet, I'll leave it at that.

The burden of proof is on you.

[Diogenes]

He was banned for breaking the rules.

Yes, I am aware of this.

[Fast Eddy]

Here's what's airtight. Rish got caught spying. RoK did not. The position of advisor is honorary in RoK, meaning that Rish had little, if any, power in the government, and saying that this was a giant plan by RoK to spy on alliances is foolish. Van Hoo, the leader of RoK, came in and specifically said that he had no idea what Rish was doing behind the scenes and then took appropriate steps against Rish's spying.

Let's do a side-by-side comparison of the two, shall we?

Van Hoo, having no knowledge of Rish's spying activities, came on and took appropriate actions against the spying former member, who had just recently rejoined RoK for the war.

mhawk, having 6 months prior knowledge of Zero Hawk, which he formed and sent to cause upheaval in Athens, did not contact Athens regarding this plot, did not move in any way to stop this plot. In fact, only Zero Hawk's members' willingness to come clean and disclose everything to an alliance they had been sent to destroy, but instead befriended, stopped the plot.

6 months is enough time to come clean after the Karma war. mhawk didn't. Therefore, he's paying the price now. Though I wish it had only been those who had been involved in the ZH conspiracy who got punished.

Van Hoo came on after slightly more than 20 minutes after the matter came to his attention and apologized.

[Prime minister Johns]

Interesting, ROK can condemn spying as immoral and a valid CB against the TPF, but a senior member and trusted advisor to their alliance does the same thing.

And yes I would consider a senior advisor and former leader to be a defacto member of the alliance government, since his opinion would carry more weight than a ordinary member in discussions and he would play a key role in deciding the direction of the alliance with his popularity and influence.

[deth2munkies]

Let's listen to everyone involved saying that TPF never had any plans after they surrendered. TPF says (and has proven) they didn't do anything after surrender, and you don't listen to them. RoK says they didn't do anything wrong, and you listen to them.

Hypocrites.

First off, kudos on the blatant misdirection and derail attempt, classic.

Secondly, Hoo apologized on page 4 or so, and there's absolutely no evidence that he nor anyone else in RoK knew anything about this.

In conclusion: You're blatantly misrepresenting the facts to draw a false conclusion (hypocrisy) that favors your twisted viewpoint of things.

Just another example of what I was posting earlier.

[Achilles]

I am NOT pregnant with IRON's baby.

>_>

Don't lie, I seen the ultrasound. It has a big head and eagle eyes. It has your feet too. I thought at first that it was TPF's, but it doesn't have the eye of the tiger.

[Aeternos Astramora]

mhawk, having 6 months prior knowledge of Zero Hawk, which he formed and sent to cause upheaval in Athens, did not contact Athens regarding this plot, did not move in any way to stop this plot. In fact, only Zero Hawk's members' willingness to come clean and disclose everything to an alliance they had been sent to destroy, but instead befriended, stopped the plot.

6 months is enough time to come clean after the Karma war. mhawk didn't. Therefore, he's paying the price now. Though I wish it had only been those who had been involved in the ZH conspiracy who got punished.

Correction, plan was cancelled before the surrender was signed.

[juslen]

No need for intent..He actually did it. If mhawk stepped down and went and spied on you, Im sure you would attack us correct?

In this hypothetical situation, perhaps if it could be proven that Mhawk planned this spy operation with high level members of government before resigning.

Whoever this RoK spy is.. someone needs to provide evidence that the leadership of RoK knew about his actions and either 1. did nothing or 2. supported them.

Until that happens.. this is nothing more than a "oh by the way we caught one of your members spying, oh and now he is no longer a member, what now?"

Well uhhhhhhh.. sorry.. for all my alliance knows I could be a spy.. but until I admit to being one if I get caught.. well what are they supposed to do about it especially if I am no longer a member?

Its sad to see that RoK had a bad seed, but until its discovered that they were watering the sucker the best thing that can be done is hit it with some weed killer and call it a day.

Edited January 1, 2010 by juslen

[Doitzel]

Here's what's airtight. Rish got caught spying.

He didn't even. He got caught having two nations in two separate alliances at once. They can't even prove what he was doing, except ghosting NSO to provoke conflict with TOP.

[NoFish]

Beforing going rogue but after they've been deleted? That doesn't make any sense.

As for the thread you linked, a good start, but hardly enough in light of the hypocrisy. I find it highly unlikely that no one in RoK knew about this, and this responses is a quick face saving gesure. Without any logs proving otherwise, yet, I'll leave it at that.

Why do you think that, praytell? The multi is older than Rok is. Hell, maybe Rish was the spy alt and McGee was the original. Maybe NATO and NSO and whoever else should be apologizing to Rok.

[thedestro]

I see some overly elaborate finger pointing in what is just a poor attempt at a diversion from defending one's allies.

[chefjoe]

He does and everyone does. Mainly because RoK govt already did say so.

BS WC, Anyone can say anything. Hell I bet if we dug here in the forums we could find Rish condemning spying...

Doesnt make it true.

He was making a claim neither he nor you nor anyone can backup without admin access to view the permissions.(which of course wouldnt and shouldnt be given to anyone not of RoK).

Period.

Anything else is hearsay.

Edited January 1, 2010 by chefjoe

[HeroicDisaster]

So now everyone's issue is that you can't prove that he was trying to obtain information while having his multi in another alliance? Tell me, what are some legitimate reasons for having a multi in a different alliance?

[Aeternos Astramora]

First off, kudos on the blatant misdirection and derail attempt, classic.

Secondly, Hoo apologized on page 4 or so, and there's absolutely no evidence that he nor anyone else in RoK knew anything about this.

In conclusion: You're blatantly misrepresenting the facts to draw a false conclusion (hypocrisy) that favors your twisted viewpoint of things.

Just another example of what I was posting earlier.

Did TPF get a chance to apologize? Why is RoK's speech on how they didn't do anything wrong legitimate, but TPF's speech on how they didn't do anything wrong is illegitimate.

[Earogema]

Interesting, ROK can condemn spying as immoral and a valid CB against the TPF, but a senior member and trusted advisor to their alliance does the same thing.

And yes I would consider a senior advisor and former leader to be a defacto member of the alliance government, since his opinion would carry more weight than a ordinary member in discussions and he would play a key role in deciding the direction of the alliance with his popularity and influence.

So if sponge came back without joining NpO and spied, I should condemn NpO?

[WarriorConcept]

Before going rogue but after they've been deleted? That doesn't make any sense.

As for the thread you linked, a good start, but hardly enough in light of the hypocrisy. I find it highly unlikely that no one in RoK knew about this, and this responses is a quick face saving gesure. Without any logs proving otherwise, yet, I'll leave it at that.

RoK, if you you know what's right, a withdraw from hostilities and white peace might be in your best interest.

So you have no proof that RoK govt knew of this, yet you know TPF govt talked to ZH about their operation.

[Darth Revan]

Based on the spirit of this rule

Multiple Forum Accounts

With the exception of moderators, if you are caught with multiple forum accounts, the multiple account(s) will be banned, warn level raised, and your identity will be announced by a moderator to the CN community so rule-abiding players can take IC action against you. Multiple forum account offenders will receive a varying percentage warn level raise and/or a permanent ban on a case-by-case basis.

I will confirm that the two nations in question were deleted for being multis.

[SpacingOutMan]

Why do you think that, praytell? The multi is older than Rok is. Hell, maybe Rish was the spy alt and McGee was the original. Maybe NATO and NSO and whoever else should be apologizing to Rok.

You know NoFish, that actually made me raise both eyebrows. It makes me wonder why he had a multi for that long... I swear it's a roommate or brother.

[WarriorConcept]

So now everyone's issue is that you can't prove that he was trying to obtain information while having his multi in another alliance? Tell me, what are some legitimate reasons for having a multi in a different alliance?

No the issue is that he wasn't govt by the OP's own admission.

[Ogaden]

You know, one could just as easily say a NATO nation had infiltrated the highest levels of RoK government and was spying on them.

SOM: beat me to it

Edited January 1, 2010 by James Dahl