Ragnarok Announcement

[ChairmanHal]

The deed took place 6 month ago but their reaction to what they did is seen now and that is what I was refering to.

I don't really see anything here that make me think I should take it for a fact that RoK is trying to chase a bunch of alliances from the game. Nothing that even implies it actually.

Oh it's definitely one interpretation and perhaps the correct one. Shape up and develop a "new attitude" or find yourself picked at or on until you disband or become an irrelevance. You can't just take the authentic logs (or what we are told are the authentic logs) at face value. You have to look at the context in which these comments were made. Rok has an ongoing war against TPF. In effect, Hoo is beginning to make good on his opinion of these alliances. It would not be the first time. As to the current war's CB...please. I've already made my feelings on that well known.

Once again I say, in all the fuss about the modification of these logs, the CB of the current war, etc., don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

[Doitzel]

This thread is now in complete compliance of OWF Standards.

1- Controversy - check

2- No evidence from either party after 20 pages - Check

3- Reference to NPO ebilness - Check

4- No U - Check

5- At-least 3 off-topic discussions - Check

6- Someone butt-hurt about distant past - Check

7- IRON runs mouth but still can't seem to find the Declare War button - Check

[o-dog]

So, I might have missed something, but let me get this straight:

Warbuck's conclusion was that he was probably hacked and a single line of a single log was edited. So you're telling me *someone* decided to hack this poor sap's computer, locate the log of a conversation that he just knew was there, altered a line, then gave a little prayer that Warbuck would then take the now-edited log (after conveniently forgetting the original conversation and having not referenced it since) and pass it around?

Really? That was your defense?

Wasn't it more along the lines of either I was hacked or Hoo is telling fibs. As it is unlikely I was hacked.....

Edited December 31, 2009 by O-Dog

[Archon]

Even better. He was being "sarcastic" when he said that and never really meant it.

But then why did he ask a friend about it and do this preliminary research?

[Zangmonkey]

Sounds about right. Such compelling defense too, I might add. Not even Johnny Cochrane could do better.

The dreaded Chewbacca defense....

[Van Hoo III]

But then why did he ask a friend about it and do this preliminary research?

He was ... sarcastically asking?

lol

[Aurion]

But then why did he ask a friend about it and do this preliminary research?

Apparently, good Messr. Warbuck is extremely dedicated to his sarcasm.

Edit: Crap. Damn you, Hoo.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Aurion

[dejarue]

Sadly, given your historical tendency to lie about a number of issues, it's difficult to tell who's telling the truth on this one, and certainly you've shown disdain for the right of rulers to continue in this world in the past.

You are so predictable.

[shahenshah]

7- IRON runs mouth but still can't seem to find the Declare War button - Check

Doitzel does another free tease for IRON - Check Priceless.

[CptGodzilla]

So, I might have missed something, but let me get this straight:

Warbuck's conclusion was that he was probably hacked and a single line of a single log was edited. So you're telling me *someone* decided to hack this poor sap's computer, locate the log of a conversation that he just knew was there, altered a line, then gave a little prayer that Warbuck would then take the now-edited log (after conveniently forgetting the original conversation and having not referenced it since) and pass it around?

Really? That was your defense?

Don't forget that when someone called him on it, that whole 10-15 lines of defense was "sarcasm".

[Marty McFly]

7- IRON runs mouth but still can't seem to find the Declare War button - Check

Don't be mean, I'm sure they're trying very hard. Give them a couple more days to figure it out.

[519 Nigras]

can i get cliffs please? i don't understand what is happening anymore.

[King Xander the Only]

can i get cliffs please? i don't understand what is happening anymore.

Someone shooped + everyone snooped = This war is hooped.

I think.

[Crymson]

With no offense to anyone, this is indeed a 'word vs. word' scenario; and so I don't see why people think they are accomplishing anything by automatically agreeing with Van Hoo's story. It's not as if it's the absolute---and given that most involved in hailing it are from alliances connected to Ragnarok or Athens, I don't see why they feel their words here will mean a tremendous amount.

[Lord Boris]

With no offense to anyone, this is indeed a 'word vs. word' scenario; and so I don't see why people think they are accomplishing anything by automatically agreeing with Van Hoo's story. It's not as if it's the absolute---and given that most involved in hailing it are from alliances connected to Ragnarok or Athens, I don't see why they feel their words here will mean a tremendous amount.

I find myself agreeing with this Crymson chap here. Something I don't ordinarily do.

[dejarue]

So, I might have missed something, but let me get this straight:

Warbuck's conclusion was that he was probably hacked and a single line of a single log was edited. So you're telling me *someone* decided to hack this poor sap's computer, locate the log of a conversation that he just knew was there, altered a line, then gave a little prayer that Warbuck would then take the now-edited log (after conveniently forgetting the original conversation and having not referenced it since) and pass it around?

Really? That was your defense?

Not only that, but he had to have passed the logs around, so the whole "I'm checking my logs" thing is an obvious farce. There's only one place that a log of "person A with person B" could've come from when person A is complaining about a leak. If he had passed it around and copied and pasted, he would be able to say "yeah, I remember that, and yeah it was there". Not "oh... hmmm... let me go find that... what day did you say that was? Oh well... I mean it looks like it's still there, but I don't remember... maybe I got hacked".

That's a terrible, terrible lie. Yeah, I'm sure someone's gonna think I'm just an SF flunky, but my reaction to this from the outset was "eek, I hope Hoo's being honest here", but really, look at the sides and how they behave. Only one of them adds up.

The only alternate conclusion is that Hoo circulated the "incriminating" version in an attempt to head off warbuck circulating them, in which case warbuck would indeed be caught off guard and have to look them up. I find this version of events implausible.

Edited December 31, 2009 by deja

[Merrie Melodies]

I don't know about TPF's other allies but FEAR has never falsified claims, manufactured anything, other otherwise purposefully distorted the truth. We have never spied, or involved ourselves in anything of the sort.

Even with 3 years of existence, you'll be hard-pressed to find any claims of dishonesty from us. I may have made a biased post or two, but FEAR has never, and will never, be faking logs or supporting faked logs.

Anyone who really knows us, knows that that ain't us.

I find your intense suppport of this doctored conversation to be dishonest.

[WarriorConcept]

With no offense to anyone, this is indeed a 'word vs. word' scenario; and so I don't see why people think they are accomplishing anything by automatically agreeing with Van Hoo's story. It's not as if it's the absolute---and given that most involved in hailing it are from alliances connected to Ragnarok or Athens, I don't see why they feel their words here will mean a tremendous amount.

Saying this without taking some of the arguments into account is rather ignorant.

It's not a complete he-said she-said as warbuck's original defense was that he was being hacked. He then said he was going to contact his IT friends, ask for help, etc. Fast forward to now and he's claiming that his hacking defense was sarcastic. Why would he go through all the trouble of consulting with IT specialists if he was indeed being sarcastic?

[Delta1212]

The rest of this thread is going to consist of people with an interest in the logs being true or those with reason to be angry at Hoo (Hey, who in this scenario could possibly fit in that category?) insisting that Hoo is lying and/or that it's his word against Warbuck's and so everyone should just ignore this topic, while his allies defend him. No one will make any headway in the argument. Taunts, horrible zingers and unfortunate posts will fill a couple dozen pages and none of it will matter because everyone in the topic will have made up their mind on the matter upon having read the OP and the subsequent discussion will consist of those people defending their opinion against others doing the same thing. Nobody with a chance to be swayed will ever read any of the argument.

There, I just saved us all a lot of time and energy.

I take it back. This didn't turn out at all as I expected.

[Archon]

With no offense to anyone, this is indeed a 'word vs. word' scenario; and so I don't see why people think they are accomplishing anything by automatically agreeing with Van Hoo's story. It's not as if it's the absolute---and given that most involved in hailing it are from alliances connected to Ragnarok or Athens, I don't see why they feel their words here will mean a tremendous amount.

Then at best it is of disputed veracity and should not be relied upon, or shown to one's alliance without proper discussion of the possibility that it might not be true.

[Canik]

I find your intense suppport of this doctored conversation to be dishonest.

I have no reason to believe the logs were doctored. Except maybe by Van Hoo.

[dejarue]

Then at best it is of disputed veracity and should not be relied upon, or shown to one's alliance without proper discussion of the possibility that it might not be true.

But it's not. Hoo didn't circulate the logs, Warbuck did. Why would Warbuck not remember it and have to look it up if he had been the one thinking it was significant enough to relay on to others? His reaction was a farce.

I have no reason to believe the logs were doctored. Except maybe by Van Hoo.

Then you should start incorporating reason into your logical decision-making processes. In other words: start being reasonable.

Edited December 31, 2009 by deja

[Rush Sykes]

But it's not. Hoo didn't circulate the logs, Warbuck did. Why would Warbuck not remember it and have to look it up if he had been the one thinking it was significant enough to relay on to others? His reaction was a farce.

Then you should start incorporating reason into your logical decision-making processes. In other words: start being reasonable.

The truly funny thing is, the people who SHOULD see this, wont.

[Canik]

Then you should start incorporating reason into your logical decision-making processes. In other words: start being reasonable.

Okay, I have no reason to believe either were doctored. Other than the fact that two versions existed and both say the other doctored them. I'm inclined to believe Warbuck since I know him better.

[jimbacher]

Then at best it is of disputed veracity and should not be relied upon, or shown to one's alliance without proper discussion of the possibility that it might not be true.

Your right, everyone should show both logs and ask their alliance mates..."now which one do you think is real?". But I suspect that is not going to happen.