Bilrow rips Cortath a new one

[Tygaland]

Valhalla worked her $@! off to defend STA, and as much as they hate us, you've never seen a complaint about us dragging our feet. Low NS is no excuse, if we didn't have someone in range, we FOUND someone in range.

Actually, you had problems covering lower level rogue attacks on our members. We just understood why and didn't make a big deal of it. Most established alliances have problems with finding active members in the 0-500NS range to assist members in that range who have been hit by rogues.

Wrong, I didn't say "karma" was as "bad" as we were when in regards to certain surrender term clauses.

It has been the catch cry since Karma started handing out terms.

Of course, I cant expect that a "morally" sensitive ( ) individual as yourself, would criticize the deviousness of certain aspects of the surrender treaty and the sheer insult being dealt here by criticizing the effectiveness of NPO nations in delivery of something that is imagined to be incredibly hard to deliver. I can only expect some worn out cheap propaganda line, from 4 months ago. We all know that when it comes to matters of the heart, moral guidelines get lost. Also hi Tyga.

You lecturing others on morality, doing what is fair and just and showing empathy with a fallen foe. Thanks for the chuckle, Branimir. Also, hello.

[Branimir]

It has been the catch cry since Karma started handing out terms.

Yeah I know, I said that. Try to innovate your lines all I am asking,...

You lecturing others on morality, doing what is fair and just and showing empathy with a fallen foe. Thanks for the chuckle, Branimir. Also, hello.

Well, I do point out what I feel I need to, what I feel is conveniently missed and that in the way that makes a person chuckle as well.

Glad we are moving on. Night Tyga and all,....also go to sleep Tyga I know its late there as it is here too, you need your beauty sleep. That fur of yours will not have a nice shine to it all on it self.

[Lord Levistus]

Actually, you had problems covering lower level rogue attacks on our members. We just understood why and didn't make a big deal of it. Most established alliances have problems with finding active members in the 0-500NS range to assist members in that range who have been hit by rogues.

Problems, sure, there are few nations at that level in most established alliances, if only because of growth programs. Alot different than stonewalling/ignoring, and we did go out of our way to find nations to hit those rogues. We had a General assigned to nothing but protecting STA.

However, this isn't about STA-Val (i hadn't even read your post yet) i was merely using it as a reference.

[SpoiL]

Or you could, you know, live up to the economic efficiency you liked to flaunt prior to the Karma War.

That is horrible reasoning.

[DirtDiver]

Other than the list full of 500NS nations in the recent tabloid, I haven't seen anything to suggest that significant nations aren't being protected. My impression from a quick glance at the NPO war screen is that rogues involving nations at a level that people can actually reach are quickly dealt with.

However, I think the idea of policing another AA is stupid. They're large enough, let them protect themselves. Save everyone some headaches.

you may not like it brendan but "KARMA" promised to protect NPO since they CANNOT protect them selves fully atm what whti being de-armed and all. and if you left a de-armed alliance to fend for themsleves no matter how big you'd be letting the vultures pick them alive.

if KARMA is going to say they are going to do someting and then turn around to not do that very thing it tells me exactly the kind of people "KARMA" is made of....for shame karma....for shame

[Lord Brendan]

Of course, if you put 130 nations in a 2 months long nuclear war on a losing side where +80% of everything they had gets pulverized and they are knocked down to bits and pieces, and then when you force onto them to pay 350,000 level of technology alone (which is considerably, considerably higher then they initially have and can even dream of at that point--- most harsh conditions nations were put under in surrender terms in the history of the planet) while being surrounded by a devastated alliance mates as well, you can only get what you are now-- a slow and painful process.

That's a load of crap.

As conditions for peace, FAN will:

1. Destroy all factories

Just one example from a host of others. Your terms are certainly hard, and the reparation amounts are steep. But there have been many terms of surrender far worse than yours, many of them handed out by your alliance.

you may not like it brendan but "KARMA" promised to protect NPO since they CANNOT protect them selves fully atm what whti being de-armed and all. and if you left a de-armed alliance to fend for themsleves no matter how big you'd be letting the vultures pick them alive.

if KARMA is going to say they are going to do someting and then turn around to not do that very thing it tells me exactly the kind of people "KARMA" is made of....for shame karma....for shame

Not true. Any alliance as big as the NPO can keep away rogues even while complying with terms. GPA's surrender terms, for example, required military decommission but made no provisions for rogue protection - they were expected to do it themselves, and as far as I know they managed pretty well.

Anyways, I've never said that the Group of 15 shouldn't be doing what they said they did; obviously they should follow the agreement. It was a stupid agreement though.

[wickedj]

That's a load of crap.

Just one example from a host of others. Your terms are certainly hard, and the reparation amounts are steep. But there have been many terms of surrender far worse than yours, many of them handed out by your alliance.

Not true. Any alliance as big as the NPO can keep away rogues even while complying with terms. GPA's surrender terms, for example, required military decommission but made no provisions for rogue protection - they were expected to do it themselves, and as far as I know they managed pretty well.

Anyways, I've never said that the Group of 15 shouldn't be doing what they said they did; obviously they should follow the agreement. It was a stupid agreement though.

Furthermore nobody had to destroy any WRCs ala MK last August

[Denial]

That is horrible reasoning.

Yes, how on earth could I demand that an alliance under surrender terms utilise more than a small percentage of their available aid slots?

Revanche is the new Hegemony

[silentkiller]

Furthermore nobody had to destroy any WRCs ala MK last August

I'd say that the 1K+ tech is far worse than WRC decomission.Not to mention the 13 day war compared to 3 months.

Edited November 29, 2009 by silentkiller

[wickedj]

I'd say that the 1K+ tech is far worse than WRC decomission.Not to mention the 13 day war compared to 3 months.

You would say that. You can gain that tech back in 2 months and pay something like 30 million for it. whereas a WRC is 150 million on top of the infra requirements

so yeah, mark me down for paying tech over decomming my WRC

[silentkiller]

umm what? some nations had 11k tech(KOD) I doubt they will get their tech back in 2 months. not when the 130 nations(possibly lower now) have to send more tech than the entire alliance had. Not to mention that the WRC decommission would have affected around 50-60 of our nations, which could have afforded WRC very easily after the war anyway.

Edited November 29, 2009 by silentkiller

[Goldie]

I'd say that the 1K+ tech is far worse than WRC decomission.Not to mention the 13 day war compared to 3 months.

dont try for sympathy there. those '1k+ tech' nations clause makes it so the fairies who hid in peace mode for 3 months didnt get to walk away from this unscathed. would you rather have had us destroy your top tier and really put you guys in a hole? im sure that would have hurt your WRC buying abilities a lot more than the current, very lenient terms do.

[Dilber]

dont try for sympathy there. those '1k+ tech' nations clause makes it so the fairies who hid in peace mode for 3 months didnt get to walk away from this unscathed. would you rather have had us destroy your top tier and really put you guys in a hole? im sure that would have hurt your WRC buying abilities a lot more than the current, very lenient terms do.

You know what, I'm just going to quote this for future reference. When asked about past NPO policies, I can state that they were moderate and fair terms, going off your scale of leniency.

[wickedj]

You know what, I'm just going to quote this for future reference. When asked about past NPO policies, I can state that they were moderate and fair terms, going off your scale of leniency.

you're still together arent you? more than how many can say. hell you still have your own Emperor..

[Il Impero Romano]

You know what, I'm just going to quote this for future reference. When asked about past NPO policies, I can state that they were moderate and fair terms, going off your scale of leniency.

A punitive stipulation on who may and may not send reps is not analogous to viceroys, forced disbandment, forced gov change, years of war, EZI of officals, etc. Does that even need to be said?

Why do I get the feeling that I've seen this exchange of questions 1 or 23,000 times in the past...

[TehChron]

A punitive stipulation on who may and may not send reps is not analogous to viceroys, forced disbandment, forced gov change, years of war, EZI of officals, etc. Does that even need to be said?

Why do I get the feeling that I've seen this exchange of questions 1 or 23,000 times in the past...

[ooc]Because he was in China and missed out on the fun[/ooc]

We all know that without his damn near divine leadership , the NPO FA team completely fell apart due to the incompetence of the department which he himself had created. He's innocent and an uninvolved party I tell you!

Yeah, but Dilber, you suck and have no business playing the equivalency card with that nonsense. If you're going to try and claim the victim's seat, you have a hell of a lot more crap to wade through before you can go there.

[Haflinger]

You would say that. You can gain that tech back in 2 months and pay something like 30 million for it. whereas a WRC is 150 million on top of the infra requirements

Uh, no they can't.

A 5K tech nation takes roughly 10 months to rebuild, given 3M/100T deals that are now the standard.

2 months gets you back 1K tech. 350,000/130=2.7K roughly. So that's about 5 months average per nation to rebuild.

[Caliph]

You know what, I'm just going to quote this for future reference. When asked about past NPO policies, I can state that they were moderate and fair terms, going off your scale of leniency.

You could, but you would be lying.

FAN had to decom factories, decom military, and have "only as many troops to make their population happy", and had other terms only to get blitzed by you and your allies a week or two before their surrender terms expired, plunging them into "eternal war" with NPO. That is how you treated your threats, because FAN almost destroyed you with their 1000 + nukes at the time. If GPA had launched their 1000 + nukes at you when you hit them with Continuum NPO would have been in dire straits then.

Plenty of other alliances you defeated in battle (wars of your own agression or your allies agression) were either disbanded due to waring you (GOLD), suffered perma war (FAN), or had to most of their tech to you and your allies (MK, Athens, lots of others).

Face it, these terms are most fitting for the kind of terms NPO gave out to your defeated foes. And now you attempt to sway public opinion away from Karma by saying they aren't living up to their side of the bargain. You tried to weasel your way out of the Karma war several times by trying to say Karma is worse than you were.

Simply put, Karma is doing the best they can, and I hope NPO is too in fulfilling your obligations per the surrender terms. The terms are very karmic, as they are harsh in some areas (the amount of money and tech, the restrictions on who can send the tech), but less restrictive than terms NPO has given out (no factories, delete certain wonders, etc). All in all, stop trying to whine your way out of this.

[Bob Janova]

I don't think they're 'extremely lenient', but considering some of the terms you forced on other alliances during your time at the top, they're not something to complain over.

As for the 3 month war, that was largely your own choice in dragging the peace negotiations on for so long.

[Weirdgus]

Hey Revanche, please do tell us again, how's that monetary reps for the month of November quota coming along?

[WorldConqueror]

dont try for sympathy there. those '1k+ tech' nations clause makes it so the fairies who hid in peace mode for 3 months didnt get to walk away from this unscathed. would you rather have had us destroy your top tier and really put you guys in a hole?

Are you mentally deficient? Think about what you're saying. Please.

[silentkiller]

Hey Revanche, please do tell us again, how's that monetary reps for the month of November quota coming along?

Hey now if we go against the going trend and pay the minimum cash reps for nov, he will be the first to acknowledge it.

[zzzptm]

Three NPO posts in a row, all of them odious.

So much for their new start in foreign affairs. Sounds like the same old pompous swaggering.

I'm thinking the guy that was in charge of NS spreadsheets before the Karma War never got fired and he's got another humdinger of a chart that shows NPO is gonna roll MK this time, for sure!

[Vladimir]

You seem to expect Pacificans to lie back and take it when people lie, scheme, mock and attack them. That isn't an expectation of a new foreign policy, that's an expectation of a completely broken spirit. If you're waiting for us to become some submissive servant of the OWF trolls you're going to be waiting a long time.

You can treat Pacificans with some respect and perhaps they will respond in kind. Or you can treat them with contempt, but don't expect them to give you flowers and a box of chocolates for your troubles.

[steodonn]

You seem to expect Pacificans to lie back and take it when people lie, scheme, mock and attack them. That isn't an expectation of a new foreign policy, that's an expectation of a completely broken spirit. If you're waiting for us to become some submissive servant of the OWF trolls you're going to be waiting a long time.

You can treat Pacificans with some respect and perhaps they will respond in kind. Or you can treat them with contempt, but don't expect them to give you flowers and a box of chocolates for your troubles.

People are just commenting on how inefficient the famous pacifican bank is