The Big Bad Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Cancelling low-level treaties that aren't going anywhere makes a certain amount of sense – not signing PIATs in the first place might make more, if you simply consider them stepping stones on the road to something 'more', but a certain amount nevertheless. However, I found this comment interesting:... and also the one about making it 'easier to defend your allies' (no, I'm not going to make the obvious joke there), considering that three of the five alliances you dropped (and two of the three PIAT-level ones) are either in Citadel or closely tied to it. Does that mean that: (i) you think C&G (with whom you hold most of your extant treaties) and Citadel are not on the same 'side'? Or Citadel and Orange, with whom you hold the others? (ii) you are intentionally aligning yourselves away from Citadel? (iii) you expect that you will have to 'defend your allies' against the alliances you dropped here, i.e. against Citadel? One and three would be misjudgements on your part, as both C&G and Orange are pretty friendly with several alliances in Citadel, but I am more interested in two. There is nothing wrong with dropping PIAT treaties that never mattered (as a matter of fact 4 out of 5 were never on the treaty web and therefore presumably not listed on the wiki of either alliance), but some of the posts in here have alluded to an ulterior motive for the treaties you chose to drop. Bob you sound a bit parnoid. That being said I have no idea what ODN is doing. I assume they have a plan and that for ODN is huge step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 It is obvious that you would like to see ODN burn Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 It is obvious that you would like to see ODN burn, but do you intend to make ODN burn by crying...or will you actually do something? If there's no other reason to insult us than to boost your post count, please stop crying about the past. The biggest motivation for these cancellations was to give us more ability to defend our allies if they're in trouble. We're trying to change, this is one of our numerous moves to do so.You're insulting 360 people on a daily basis because of the mistakes of a few that are no longer govt or in ODN. That itself is pathetic and ungentlemanly behavior, you insult for the sake of insulting. I would expect much more civil behavior from the leader of a respectable alliance, like yourself Chimaera. Will you let go of the past and mind the present, please? Be civil please, grow up. I'm far too busy this week to take you up on this wonderful "do something about it" challenge. I'll see if I can free up next week, but I've been really really busy. No one is ever going to forget the past, and if you do you are a fool. You can keep the past in mind while tending to the present. As soon as ODN shows that they are willing to stand up for their friends and proves everyone wrong, you will have the last laugh. Until then, the use of the "they're not even here anymore" defense is useless, since their actions are tied to your alliance and will be until the current generation of ODN leadership has the opportunity to show that they've changed. That said, there's nothing really wrong with this announcement, since anything lower than an MDP is utterly useless unless relations between the alliances is expected to produce a higher level treaty. Obviously that's not going to happen, so that makes this a pretty standard announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 It is obvious that you would like to see ODN burn, but do you intend to make ODN burn by crying...or will you actually do something? If there's no other reason to insult us than to boost your post count, please stop crying about the past. The biggest motivation for these cancellations was to give us more ability to defend our allies if they're in trouble. We're trying to change, this is one of our numerous moves to do so.You're insulting 360 people on a daily basis because of the mistakes of a few that are no longer govt or in ODN. That itself is pathetic and ungentlemanly behavior, you insult for the sake of insulting. I would expect much more civil behavior from the leader of a respectable alliance, like yourself Chimaera. Will you let go of the past and mind the present, please? Be civil please, grow up. I can see where you got that from most of the quoted statements, but how cold you possibly infer that from President Obama's statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franziskaner Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I think that might have been a case of mistaken quotation... I find it hard to work the controls of these over grown radios sometimes myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) You're insulting 360 people on a daily basis because of the mistakes of a few that are no longer govt or in ODN. That itself is pathetic and ungentlemanly behavior, you insult for the sake of insulting. I would expect much more civil behavior from the leader of a respectable alliance, like yourself Chimaera. Most people are quite fascinated by ODNs abilities to seemingly ignore treaties which they hold. *cough* Remember April? *cough* B) Edited September 25, 2009 by Mr Damsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 People need the drama. Cancellations are always looked upon as more than two alliances no longer going in the same direction, but rather a statement of resentment from one towards the other. I know that is not the case. From an insider's point of view, I saw the alliance discussion on these proposals and it really amounts to nothing more than clean up. The current government doesn't see a need to hold onto low level treaties when the communication and bond between past governments that forged the treaties no longer exists. Doesn't mean relations can't be renewed at some point. ODN also doesn't want to find itself in the predicament of trying to be everyone's best friend and then having to chose sides when the time comes (lose/lose for ODN no matter what). I commend the government for working together to obtain a vision and direction it wants to take ODN in and getting things done. Personally, I dislike ODN based on the attitudes and behavior of its current government more than any past mistakes. How's that "It's all everyone else's fault!" broken record deflect that, let's see? Can you really blame anyone in ODN that you feel has an attitude? They're working towards improving the image and direction of the alliance, but constantly being criticized and having the past held over their heads. No government is perfect. No government makes decisions that will appease everyone, but I know these guys are doing their best. Give 'em some credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Most people are quite fascinated by ODNs abilities to seemingly ignore treaties which they hold. *cough* Remember April? *cough*B) Yes clearly nobody can understand why ODN wouldn't stand by the Hegemony. Bad call in not canceling earlier but I doubt anyone actually thought ODN would be with them, everyone tallied them in with what would become Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yes clearly nobody can understand why ODN wouldn't stand by the Hegemony. Bad call in not canceling earlier but I doubt anyone actually thought ODN would be with them, everyone tallied them in with what would become Karma. Obviously they weren't going to be with them, they were on the losing side. Ok, I'm done. Seriously. That one was just too easy to pass up. Carry on ODN, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Read three pages and gather this much. Argent has some butthurt after losing this neigh useless treaty and just about everybody but Argent agrees PIAT and lower are, indeed, worthless. Also ODN, congrats on dropping anything related to USN and Invicta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankees Empire Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Most people are quite fascinated by ODNs abilities to seemingly ignore treaties which they hold. *cough* Remember April? *cough*B) ODN was not the only alliance to do so. I seem to recall MHA and NpO stating that they wouldn't uphold their treaties and defend NPO at the beginning of the Karma War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy1 Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 The lines have been drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portugal Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'm amazed at how every thread about ODN goes the same way. It's like they're some unidimensional fiend which never had a change in membership, goals, organization or mentality, or which has never said or done anything in its 3 and a half years of existence but cancel treaties left and right without any semblance of rationality or need behind it, and every move or every word uttered by them is immediately referring to those events or a way to weasel out of them by the public eye. It's like an abstract work of art. Good luck to ODN and it's ex-treaty friends, if there wasn't much communication between these alliances then canceling them is probably the best for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 How can people be so seriously deprived of drama so soon after such a huge war? People around here are so impatient these days. ODN is hardly the only alliance that's got a survivalist history out there, and is it really a surprise to anyone that they decided the last war wasn't a good time to break the trend they'd set for themselves? I mean, come on, 'hey dudes, we've got a !@#$ reputation of being spineless, so let's break the cycle by taking NPO's side.. they've always been so good to us!' How can anyone fault them now for choosing to align themselves openly with a 'side' of the web that's always been civil to ODN and that obviously share some common ideals. They're doing what everyone wanted them to do, and I don't even think anyone cares that they didn't defend NPO, they're just still angry they didn't defend NpO, and wanted to see them die with NPO. Congratulations ODN for clearing up the treaty web a little more, even if one of the alliances is my own, I hope we can still remain friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elendil old Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 They're doing what everyone wanted them to do, and I don't even think anyone cares that they didn't defend NPO, they're just still angry they didn't defend NpO, and wanted to see them die with NPO. Didn't know we had a treaty with ODN o.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Didn't know we had a treaty with ODN o.o Didn't say you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I don't see why people are whining at Argent for assuming that treaties at any level mean a certain degree of friendship, trust, honesty, and cooperation. The fact that people have developed this mentality that 'anything below MDP doesn't count' seems indicative of the pathetic state of Planet Bob at current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThirdMark Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Only you joining them would make them close to decent. Make them close to not reaching it at all you mean Go on, join 'em, give 'em a try. Oh wait! erikz belongs to us now Wow, thats a lot of lost treaties and friendlies, hope its for the best (hopes there isnt a war coming either... lol) War is eminent. No idea who against who, but in time there will be war B) LINES BEING DRAWN!Good luck with this ODN. I hope it fares well for you. Where you see any lines? Lines have been drawn with Invicta - canceling PIATs is the new CB. Your post just saved this topic. It is obvious that you would like to see ODN burn, but do you intend to make ODN burn by crying...or will you actually do something? If there's no other reason to insult us than to boost your post count, please stop crying about the past. The biggest motivation for these cancellations was to give us more ability to defend our allies if they're in trouble. We're trying to change, this is one of our numerous moves to do so.You're insulting 360 people on a daily basis because of the mistakes of a few that are no longer govt or in ODN. That itself is pathetic and ungentlemanly behavior, you insult for the sake of insulting. I would expect much more civil behavior from the leader of a respectable alliance, like yourself Chimaera. Will you let go of the past and mind the present, please? Be civil please, grow up. ODN should openly accept their History. Even if its made of Fail. By accepting you can understand the mistakes made, if any. And by accepting it, you (as an Alliance) agree on a new path. Growth is the inevitable outcome. Good luck with that And to be completely OnTopic: Good luck to all Alliances involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'm amazed at how every thread about ODN goes the same way. It's like they're some unidimensional fiend which never had a change in membership, goals, organization or mentality, or which has never said or done anything in its 3 and a half years of existence but cancel treaties left and right without any semblance of rationality or need behind it, and every move or every word uttered by them is immediately referring to those events or a way to weasel out of them by the public eye. It's like an abstract work of art. Good luck to ODN and it's ex-treaty friends, if there wasn't much communication between these alliances then canceling them is probably the best for all. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 All you wannabe analysts and "humorists" are wrong: ODN is just trying to cancel every treaty I ever signed. I'm seeing right through you, Arsenal. Rumbled. Can the war of Potato's Ear be far off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Personally, I dislike ODN based on the attitudes and behavior of its current government more than any past mistakes. How's that "It's all everyone else's fault!" broken record deflect that, let's see? What a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) I'm glad ODN jokes are still funny. I personally thought we left the year 2008 a while back, but obviously I was wrong. Edited September 25, 2009 by Nintenderek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 If you say so. Personally I always thought that ODN signing redundant, contradictory treaties that meant it would be sitting out any potential conflict was a sure sign a war was coming. Ok, that was a cheap shot. These are clearly low level treaties that probably needed cleaned out of the closet anyway. Carry on. Ah god, priceless Hal, good show. As amusing as some of these comments have been, I wish ODN luck, though this does raise a few eyebrows this can only serve to clarify their FA position. Legion knows what its like to get trolled on every thread. Stick in there guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zessa Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 ODN should openly accept their History. Even if its made of Fail. By accepting you can understand the mistakes made, if any. And by accepting it, you (as an Alliance) agree on a new path. Growth is the inevitable outcome. Good luck with that And to be completely OnTopic: Good luck to all Alliances involved. There are those of us who acknowledge we have made mistakes. I've probably made more of them than most, and I've regretted it for over a year now. But I have seen the rise of a new way in ODN. The alliance is radically different in policy than during the great turmoil, and I believe this is to its advantage. Also, Argent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zessa Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 All you wannabe analysts and "humorists" are wrong: ODN is just trying to cancel every treaty I ever signed. I'm seeing right through you, Arsenal. I look forward to the end of the MK-ODN PIAT Ah god, priceless Hal, good show. As amusing as some of these comments have been, I wish ODN luck, though this does raise a few eyebrows this can only serve to clarify their FA position. Legion knows what its like to get trolled on every thread. Stick in there guys I appreciate it, even if I'm not important any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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