The GMs Court

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Il Terra Di Agea' date='19 July 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1279583315' post='2379505']
In short, yes. As I said in my earlier post, if the island isn't there IRL, you have to make it, and it's implausible to do so. So yah, you will need to find a real island that no one is RPing.
[/quote]

Not one of that magnitude anyways. Artificial island engineering and research is making progress everyday and gaining more sticking points.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='19 July 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1279583687' post='2379514']
Not one of that magnitude anyways. Artificial island engineering and research is making progress everyday and gaining more sticking points.
[/quote]
They cost a lot though...

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='19 July 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1279583859' post='2379518']
They cost a lot though...
[/quote]

And it's painfully obvious that [b]no one[/b] in CNRP RPs costs and actual budget economics.

[DeSchaine]

Apparently people seem to have forgotten that we used to have a player here that was based on a totally manmade island. Anyone remember Naboo?

However, he had a MASSIVE amount of tech.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='DeSchaine' date='19 July 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1279585044' post='2379544']
Apparently people seem to have forgotten that we used to have a player here that was based on a totally manmade island. Anyone remember Naboo?

However, he had a MASSIVE amount of tech.
[/quote]

Whatever happened to it anyways?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

If man made islands are permitted I suggest they be restricted to global shallows such as in the Caribbean or the Persian Gulf. Deep water artificial islands have never been created by man.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='19 July 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1279587748' post='2379603']
If man made islands are permitted I suggest they be restricted to global shallows such as in the Caribbean or the Persian Gulf. Deep water artificial islands have never been created by man.
[/quote]

Be aware my request wasn't for an artificial island to be built, it was just a request a small natural island to be allowed to exist which isn't in real life so that I could rp a new smaller island style RP.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

[quote name='DeSchaine' date='19 July 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1279585044' post='2379544']
Apparently people seem to have forgotten that we used to have a player here that was based on a totally manmade island. Anyone remember Naboo?

However, he had a MASSIVE amount of tech.
[/quote]
He also got away with several massive godmods pertaining to that same man made island, and I can guarantee you that something like that won't be happening again under my watch.

EDIT: And as to the question of what happened to it: Shan went inactive. I've personally always decided to think that after it got nuked, it started to fall apart because it was a hollow steel block... that got nuked, and that everything he did after that was propaganda to cover up the fact his nation was literally collapsing. That was never RPed, but I always found that it was the most plausible series of events, even to just have as a widely believed conspiracy in my nation.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Il Terra Di Agea

[Fizzydog]

I built an island

But it was about 1/2 a mile long and never was finished. It was for NTR.

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Fizzydog' date='19 July 2010 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1279589543' post='2379648']
I built an island

But it was about 1/2 a mile long and never was finished. It was for NTR.
[/quote]


There was also unity island for the bridge spanning the straight of Gibraltar, neither of which would be big enough for what (I think) Kevin has in mind.

Kevin: there's plenty of islands already in the area, why not ask for one of them?

[Captain Enema]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' date='16 July 2010 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1279269000' post='2374303']
So Fizzy sends these two messages at the same time apparently.

Triyun gets the first one, because it's public, which I assume gives him the IC excuse to monitor transmissions between Fizzy and and Kevin KIngswell.

Though he doesn't monitor transmissions between other nations that offered their support. Fortunate for him that they never sent a private transmission offering munitions and aircraft. Good thing he decided to spy on the one that did.

And good thing the GMs allowed time machines too. I got into a discussion on IRC about why time machines should be allowed, but no one agreed with me. I've been gone for a few days, so I must have missed when time machines were allowed, and the thread where Triyun RP'd making one.

This is quite obviously the case, because the IC reason for Triyun to monitor Fizzy's transmissions occurred at the very moment Fizzy sent the classified transmission. Or maybe Triyun's spies are just that fast. Or maybe Fizzy's internets are a series of tubes. And those tubes got filled up and delayed his classified message from arriving, then Triyun's spies crawled into the tubes and found the message.


So can I ask a GM to tell me what is the ruling that allowed this to happen?

1) Time machines
2) Super spies
3) The internet is a series of tubes
4) Other (please specify)
[/quote]

HELLO GMs... this could use an answer even if the issue has moved on.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='iKrolm' date='19 July 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1279590865' post='2379690']
There was also unity island for the bridge spanning the straight of Gibraltar, neither of which would be big enough for what (I think) Kevin has in mind.

Kevin: there's plenty of islands already in the area, why not ask for one of them?
[/quote]

Yeah already whispered Subtle about an island in the pacific. I got my own internal RP planned kind of liek a mix between Tropico and 7.62mm. In other words a small island with about fifty to hundred people ruled by el presidente with a minor rebel movement should be fun.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

[img]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5899/correct.jpg[/img]

Requesting a spy roll the VDL for coordinates of tactical strongholds such as radar installations, electric grids, and anti-air and so forth.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Sarah Tintagyl

[iamthey]

Sarah roll on Lynneth.


1-50: win
51-100: fail

83 fail, sorry.

[IMG]http://imgur.com/C8g4q.png[/IMG]

Edited July 20, 2010 by iamthey

[iamthey]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' date='16 July 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1279269000' post='2374303']
So Fizzy sends these two messages at the same time apparently.

Triyun gets the first one, because it's public, which I assume gives him the IC excuse to monitor transmissions between Fizzy and and Kevin KIngswell.

Though he doesn't monitor transmissions between other nations that offered their support. Fortunate for him that they never sent a private transmission offering munitions and aircraft. Good thing he decided to spy on the one that did.

And good thing the GMs allowed time machines too. I got into a discussion on IRC about why time machines should be allowed, but no one agreed with me. I've been gone for a few days, so I must have missed when time machines were allowed, and the thread where Triyun RP'd making one.

This is quite obviously the case, because the IC reason for Triyun to monitor Fizzy's transmissions occurred at the very moment Fizzy sent the classified transmission. Or maybe Triyun's spies are just that fast. Or maybe Fizzy's internets are a series of tubes. And those tubes got filled up and delayed his classified message from arriving, then Triyun's spies crawled into the tubes and found the message.


So can I ask a GM to tell me what is the ruling that allowed this to happen?

1) Time machines
2) Super spies
3) The internet is a series of tubes
4) Other (please specify)
[/quote]

Responding for TBM. I do not think these criticisms are really applicable for the following reasons.

1) As Sargun said this is not a real time strategy, if we are going to accept the criticism then that makes any interception of secured transmissions impossible, something which contravenes what goes on in reality, as you always have to ask for the spy roll AFTER the message has been sent.

2) As triyun said nations track communications all the time, especially communications between the governments of the nation's they are at war with. The United States National Security Agency is essentially charged with intercepting, decoding, and interpreting as much of the world's communications as they possibly can. Its reasonable to assume that he could have intercepted the message and decoded it with the spy roll. You all were either running it through international fiber optic lines, transmitting it via satellite, or sending it via radio. Unless you sent a human runner with it either in writing, or memorized, an arduous and inefficient task, I can't really do much for you.

I hate the spy system too, but that's the way it is set up right now.

[Captain Enema]

Back to pen and paper for all important messages then.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' date='20 July 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1279626596' post='2380414']
Back to pen and paper for all important messages then.
[/quote]

That's even less secure, all an agency needs to do is intercept the letter.

[iamthey]

In order to intercept they would need to know the letter exists, and who the carrier is. A spy attack only allows you to uncover connections that exist, it does not give you licence to god mode, or be omniscient. I'm not saying there wouldn't be a way to figure it out, but its not like you could just roll to intercept the message you shouldn't know about.

[Captain Enema]

[quote name='iamthey' date='20 July 2010 - 06:43 AM' timestamp='1279629798' post='2380457']
In order to intercept they would need to know the letter exists, and who the carrier is. A spy attack only allows you to uncover connections that exist, it does not give you licence to god mode, or be omniscient. I'm not saying there wouldn't be a way to figure it out, but its not like you could just roll to intercept the message you shouldn't know about.
[/quote]

Oh no worries, one of the biggies will be along shortly with a reasonable explanation for the suck up GM staff for why the biggie's much lauded and barely rped security forces will have absolutely no problem intercepting any message of any kind.

It is all in the game mechanics and all that rot.

[Triyun]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' date='20 July 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1279626596' post='2380414']
Back to pen and paper for all important messages then.
[/quote]

I hear the Athenian Navy makes a habit of letting ships through a blockade

[quote]Oh no worries, one of the biggies will be along shortly with a reasonable explanation for the suck up GM staff for why the biggie's much lauded and barely rped security forces will have absolutely no problem intercepting any message of any kind. [/quote]

This argument is tiresome. Nobody RPs waste management yet cities aren't overrun with trash. Intelligence and waste management are both essential government functions.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Triyun' date='20 July 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1279640369' post='2380658']
This argument is tiresome. Nobody RPs waste management yet cities aren't overrun with trash. Intelligence and waste management are both essential government functions.
[/quote]

Yes, these are basic government functions, but when you are RPing interfering with another person's RP you need to have better details. As long as one does one's own internal RPs one can decide what level of detail they want to use. However if you RP war or espionage it is not a light matter, it is interfering with another person's RP, then you must put greater effort.

Otherwise it would continue to be a system prone to abuse and metagame. Every nation cannot and does not concentrate its intelligence assets to intercept and decrypt the messages from every other nations, they do that only to those nations that are a threat to them, in CNRP parlance, that you know ICly to be a threat. Encrypted communications are most often directional and not very easy to intercept unless narrowly concentrated. There should be a logical progression for what you do, especially when you are doing something to interfere with another person's RP.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' date='20 July 2010 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1279638227' post='2380597']
Oh no worries, one of the biggies will be along shortly with a reasonable explanation for the suck up GM staff for why the biggie's much lauded and barely rped security forces will have absolutely no problem intercepting any message of any kind.

It is all in the game mechanics and all that rot.
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are big, I simply think that sal's argument was wrong. He made an argument full of hyperbole and it was answered. Then no one really argued it beyond that.

This is not some conspiracy against you TBM. You are making arguments that clash with the conventional interpretation and drift of this RP, I am upholding precedents, you are arguing for shifts in policy. Obviously while some reforms will go through, in large part rules and practices will stay as they are in the short run.

Personally I hate the spy system with a burning passion, I would love more than anything to tear it down or at least bridle the power and scope that it has. The usage of spy rolls has gone well beyond reasonable levels, and has been in some cases abused. But the way it is set up is the way it is set up. That being said, we should be coming up with a more substantive proposal to regulate spy rolls for the community to discuss and vote on, so hopefully that will fix some of the issues.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='iamthey' date='20 July 2010 - 04:46 AM' timestamp='1279626389' post='2380413']
Responding for TBM. I do not think these criticisms are really applicable for the following reasons.

1) As Sargun said this is not a real time strategy, if we are going to accept the criticism then that makes any interception of secured transmissions impossible, something which contravenes what goes on in reality, as you always have to ask for the spy roll AFTER the message has been sent.

2) As triyun said nations track communications all the time, especially communications between the governments of the nation's they are at war with. The United States National Security Agency is essentially charged with intercepting, decoding, and interpreting as much of the world's communications as they possibly can. Its reasonable to assume that he could have intercepted the message and decoded it with the spy roll. You all were either running it through international fiber optic lines, transmitting it via satellite, or sending it via radio. Unless you sent a human runner with it either in writing, or memorized, an arduous and inefficient task, I can't really do much for you.

I hate the spy system too, but that's the way it is set up right now.
[/quote]

You missed my second comment on the subject. It's reasonable to assume that one is always monitoring communications and the only way to catch them is after they've been posted, but he RP'd starting to monitor them after the message was sent and asked for a spy roll in order to do so.

[quote]Requesting spy roll to break encryption and [b]monitor communications[/b] due to public statements of support for warring China.[/quote]


If Triyun had asked for a spy roll to intercept or decode the message, that might be acceptable. But this request and his IC post shows he wasn't monitoring communications before the message was sent.

[Triyun]

Only because the last time I asked to do proactive signal intercept (against Cochin) it was shut down by the GMs for no IC cause.

[JEDCJT]

I would like two spy rolls on Eggman Empire, please. Both for cyberwarfare.

[img]http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/LordJedcjt/spyodds2-2.png[/img]

Thanks.

Edited July 20, 2010 by JEDCJT