The GMs Court

[Sargun II]

I just realized how easy it would be to photoshop some spy screens.

[Karl Martin]

[quote name='Sargun' date='13 July 2010 - 09:43 AM' timestamp='1279035779' post='2369343']
You have them in a news thread about a canon nation and furthermore, when we were discussing things in the past you even threatened to use one of them on my own spy if I tried to do anything. So it's pretty much established that you view them as canon. Something cannot exist both in and out of public canon.

Further, as a GM, your lack of ruling on your egregious breaking of the rules is appalling - something as easy as marking your impossible posts with "[internal only; non-canon]" would make it to where anything you do is exempt from the rules but instead you elect to put them out there to be used without comment. In addition, by going on with other impossibilities you are making your nation seem even stronger than possible, thus having an effect without even having used them specifically.
[/quote]

Sargun, you expect too much from a Bavarian who is programmed to disregard everything that goes against what he wants or thinks is right.

If GMs were originally voted for, I would never had voted for the most egoistic and self-satisfied player in CNRP (excepting myself, but then I know my limitations and problems.)

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Karl Martin' date='14 July 2010 - 07:06 PM' timestamp='1279152374' post='2371810']
Sargun, you expect too much from a Bavarian who is programmed to disregard everything that goes against what he wants or thinks is right.

If GMs were originally voted for, I would never had voted for the most egoistic and self-satisfied player in CNRP (excepting myself, but then I know my limitations and problems.)
[/quote]

You are why we can't have nice things. Lynneth's a good friend and a good RP'er, I just disagree with him on his use of science-fiction with questionable labeling.

By the way, Bavaria Germany is Best Germany.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Karl Martin' date='14 July 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1279152374' post='2371810']
Sargun, you expect too much from a Bavarian who is programmed to disregard everything that goes against what he wants or thinks is right.

[b]If GMs were originally voted for, I would never had voted for the most egoistic and self-satisfied player in CNRP (excepting myself, but then I know my limitations and problems.)[/b]
[/quote]

Ok, that's actually funny. You think you would be better than Lynneth.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Voodoo Nova

[Bacharth]

[quote name='Karl Martin' date='14 July 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1279152374' post='2371810']
Sargun, you expect too much from a Bavarian who is programmed to disregard everything that goes against what he wants or thinks is right.

If GMs were originally voted for, I would never had voted for the most egoistic and self-satisfied player in CNRP (excepting myself, but then I know my limitations and problems.)
[/quote]

Actually I'm pretty sure I satisfy myself a lot more.

[Karl Martin]

[quote name=%26%2339%3BSargun%26%2339%3B date='14 July 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1279153026' post='2371825']
You are why we can't have nice things. Lynneth's a good friend and a good RP'er, I just disagree with him on his use of science-fiction with questionable labeling.

By the way, Bavaria Germany is Best Germany.
[/quote]

Of course I'm one of, if not the most, offending person.

Bavaria is the reason why Germany is not the greatest nation on earth, starting from the House of Habsburg and its mongrel empire, to a certain Austrian who spoke in Lower Bavarian and his cronies. Bismarck should never had attempted to form Deutsches Reich. In fact, I consider Bavaria the criminal, never living up to its National Socialist past.


Finally: Bayreuth is Franken.


[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='14 July 2010 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1279153241' post='2371831']
Ok, that's actually funny. You think you would be better than Lynneth.
[/quote]

I know I am the most egoistic and self-satisfied player in CNRP, meaning I would never try for GM. Try reading again

Edited July 15, 2010 by Karl Martin

[Zoot Zoot]

Karl, just get off these forums you !@#$@#$ nazi.

[Karl Martin]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='14 July 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1279153582' post='2371845']
Karl, just get off these forums you !@#$@#$ nazi.
[/quote]
I'm about as Nazi as Obama.

[Justinian the Mighty]

But Obama isnt a Nazi he's a communist

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Justinian the Mighty' date='14 July 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1279153828' post='2371853']
But Obama isnt a Nazi he's a communist
[/quote]

Sieg Heil Comrade Obama?

[Karl Martin]

"Heil Premier Obama!" would be the most accurate saying, although if you want comrade, it would be "Heil Genosse Obama!"

Deutsche Demokratische Republik, what a rot.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Karl Martin

[iamthey]

Maybe we should go back to when this thread was non-discussion >_>, this tangent certainly is not relevant to much of anything.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Karl Martin' date='14 July 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1279154246' post='2371869']
"Heil Premier Obama!" would be the most accurate saying, although if you want comrade, it would be "Heil Genosse Obama!"

Deutsche Demokratische Republik, what a rot.
[/quote]

Want a tissue?

[Karl Martin]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='14 July 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1279154628' post='2371880']
Want a tissue?
[/quote]
Thank you. It makes me sad that Vereinigte Deutsche Länder has Lynneth in it.


Final post in here except for possible GM issues.

[Executive Minister]

Aww Karly, you were so much cuter when you were lolBelarus and France's retarded cousin.

[Triyun]

I would like to inquire with the GMs about the current status of Singapore's population and this question in general. It seems to me that when a region has been RPed, that people should just not be able to wipe it, or do unrealistic things like just say "oh they all got up and moved." It kinda seems like a way to do ethnic cleansing while getting around the rules.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Triyun' date='15 July 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1279177506' post='2372560']
I would like to inquire with the GMs about the current status of Singapore's population and this question in general. It seems to me that when a region has been RPed, that people should just not be able to wipe it, or do unrealistic things like just say "oh they all got up and moved." It kinda seems like a way to do ethnic cleansing while getting around the rules.
[/quote]


That is true, and it is bad RP. Entire populations don't just pick up and move, not without someone to force them out, and there is the issue of where they go to. Magic wiping them does also seems like a form of godmoding, albeit it has been tolerated in the past. It seems like a way to do something highly controversial, such as ethnically cleanse an area, without any form of legitimate IC recourse to local nations. I've always personally been one to say that people should be at least try to be realistic and stick to continuity.

I would say that unless the person controlling the territory provides a better explanation for why they moved, and where they went,that RPers can assume that the population is still present. People don't just voluntarily leave a full metropolitan area because some wealthy foreign nation wants to auction off the territory to the highest bidder.

Edited July 15, 2010 by iamthey

[Lynneth]

[quote name='iamthey' date='15 July 2010 - 09:12 AM' timestamp='1279177917' post='2372566']
That is true, and it is bad RP. Entire populations don't just pick up and move, not without someone to force them out, and there is the issue of where they go to. Magic wiping them does also seems like a form of godmoding, albeit it has been tolerated in the past. It seems like a way to do something highly controversial, such as ethnically cleanse an area, without any form of legitimate IC recourse to local nations. I've always personally been one to say that [b]people should be at least try to be realistic and stick to continuity.[/b]

I would say that unless the person controlling the territory provides a better explanation for why they moved, and where they went,that RPers can assume that the population is still present. People don't just voluntarily leave a full metropolitan area because some wealthy foreign nation wants to auction off the territory to the highest bidder.
[/quote]
The bolded part. I agree with it.
And even if RP is done to remove everyone, there's still a chance of some hundred to thousand people remaining, hidden from the eyes of the government. Unless they glass the area or sweep it continuously.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Lynneth

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='iamthey' date='15 July 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1279177917' post='2372566']
That is true, and it is bad RP. Entire populations don't just pick up and move, not without someone to force them out, and there is the issue of where they go to. Magic wiping them does also seems like a form of godmoding, albeit it has been tolerated in the past. It seems like a way to do something highly controversial, such as ethnically cleanse an area, without any form of legitimate IC recourse to local nations. I've always personally been one to say that people should be at least try to be realistic and stick to continuity.

I would say that unless the person controlling the territory provides a better explanation for why they moved, and where they went,that RPers can assume that the population is still present. People don't just voluntarily leave a full metropolitan area because some wealthy foreign nation wants to auction off the territory to the highest bidder.
[/quote]


[quote name='Lynneth' date='15 July 2010 - 02:26 AM' timestamp='1279178751' post='2372580']
The bolded part. I agree with it.
And even if RP is done to remove everyone, there's still a chance of some hundred to thousand people remaining, hidden from the eyes of the government. Unless they glass the area or sweep it continuously.
[/quote]

In a simple word. No. Unfortunally even if it isn't realistic and maybe even a bit stupid it is their land and so they can do what they want with it. So if the controller of the land says everyone has packed up and left then everyone has packed up and left as it is their decision in what happens as they are their citizens.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='15 July 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1279187461' post='2372650']
In a simple word. No. Unfortunally even if it isn't realistic and maybe even a bit stupid it is their land and so they can do what they want with it. So if the controller of the land says everyone has packed up and left then everyone has packed up and left as it is their decision in what happens as they are their citizens.
[/quote]

The controller of the land can dictate what goes on in their territory, they can do this to a great extent, but that privilege does not make them omnipotent. Just as they cannot RP events which violate physical laws, they must contend with the relatively universal aspects of man and his psychology. It is not an unreasonable expectation that an RPer be realistic with how they make use of their OOC power. As a community we have demanded this in countless examples.

For example, we force Rpers to be relatively realistic in their construction times, you can't simply summon into existence a city over night, or build 2000 cruise missiles over three days. We also force RPers to obey the laws of physics, we force RPers to accept real life geography. We force Rpers to be realistic and to narrate spiritualistic RPs behind the veil of ignorance. So to say that RPers must deal with a population as one would have to in real life is no different. People are not going to magically get up and leave, even if there were many economic incentives to do so. In fact as people left the city those who stayed would be even more incentivized to stay as there would be an abundance of employment opportunities and low priced goods. The fact of the matter is passive methods would only go so far. You could have a deadly plague, an utter economic depression, wide spread terrorism and so on, but that only only go so far to drive out the population. At some point direct action would need to be taken to drive them out.

All we are asking is that realistic and reasonably RP'd methods of evicting the population be used. Otherwise deal with them and auction them off with the city. Simply because stuff like this was tolerated in the past does not mean it is a practice that should be continued. I'm all for being hands off, and liberal about how we address internal matters. If people want to explore different genres, and have cool tech thats fine, but we should at least have some standards.

Edited July 15, 2010 by iamthey

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='iamthey' date='15 July 2010 - 05:15 AM' timestamp='1279188936' post='2372664']
The controller of the land can dictate what goes on in their territory, they can do this to a great extent, but that privilege does not make them omnipotent. Just as they cannot RP events which violate physical laws, they must contend with the relatively universal aspects of man and his psychology. It is not an unreasonable expectation that an RPer be realistic with how they make use of their OOC power. As a community we have demanded this in countless examples.

For example, we force Rpers to be relatively realistic in their construction times, you can't simply summon into existence a city over night, or build 2000 cruise missiles over three days. We also force RPers to obey the laws of physics, we force RPers to accept real life geography. We force Rpers to be realistic and to narrate spiritualistic RPs behind the veil of ignorance. So to say that RPers must deal with a population as one would have to in real life is no different. People are not going to magically get up and leave, even if there were many economic incentives to do so. In fact as people left the city those who stayed would be even more incentivized to stay as there would be an abundance of employment opportunities and low priced goods. The fact of the matter is passive methods would only go so far. You could have a deadly plague, an utter economic depression, wide spread terrorism and so on, but that only only go so far to drive out the population. At some point direct action would need to be taken to drive them out.

All we are asking is that realistic and reasonably RP'd methods of evicting the population be used. Otherwise deal with them and auction them off with the city. Simply because stuff like this was tolerated in the past does not mean it is a practice that should be continued. I'm all for being hands off, and liberal about how we address internal matters. If people want to explore different genres, and have cool tech thats fine, but we should at least have some standards.
[/quote]


Nice long explanation and whilst I would agree with you I can not. For you see it is agreed by the whole community that no one can control someone elses citizens. This includes you GM's. So if some one decides to move all of their population then they can because it is their population not yours so no you can't make a GM decision against someone moving their population.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='15 July 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1279192854' post='2372691']
Nice long explanation and whilst I would agree with you I can not. For you see it is agreed by the whole community that no one can control someone elses citizens. This includes you GM's. So if some one decides to move all of their population then they can because it is their population not yours so no you can't make a GM decision against someone moving their population.
[/quote]

I dont think you grasp anything that has been said.

You cannot move over a million people out of a city without causing rioting, widespread panic and death. Its unethical, and unrealistic.
Evacuations of that scale take months of preperation, food, shelter, transport, finding a new location and a host of other things i cannot think of because ive never felt the need to evacuate an entire city/region.

The fact tessa declared existance and the immediatly forced Singapores population out into what is essentially a jungle and another country, shows massive ammounts of unrealism (is that a word?) and just opens the door for more stupid, badly planned RP's.

See the singapore situation as a whole, kankou, Szent, Girltopia and the rest. The whole swapping of land in that area should be retconned for the pure idiocy of all the complete lack of RP involved, but thats just my two cents.

[Executive Minister]

And what of those rage quitters who say 'The entire population committed mass suicide, or the antarctic shelf housing the overwhelming majority of the nation collapsed into the sea' ?

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='15 July 2010 - 07:35 AM' timestamp='1279197333' post='2372742']
And what of those rage quitters who say 'The entire population committed mass suicide, or the antarctic shelf housing the overwhelming majority of the nation collapsed into the sea' ?
[/quote]

What about people like myself and others who have nations in Antartica? That in itself is unrealistic you can't have fully functioning cities and such like in such hostile conditions but we do.

If you are going to go all realistic on population then you need to have us anatrtica players removed from the map as you can't have nations there.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='15 July 2010 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1279198045' post='2372750']
What about people like myself and others who have nations in Antartica? That in itself is unrealistic you can't have fully functioning cities and such like in such hostile conditions but we do.

If you are going to go all realistic on population then you need to have us anatrtica players removed from the map as you can't have nations there.
[/quote]


Wrong, you can live anywhere on this earth if you have the resources, money and manpower to do it.
Be it underground, overground in specially built homes etc.
People live in Siberia, the coldest place on earth, finland, norway, the Steppe.