Why Karma made me a Pacifican

[muffasamini]

The alliance I was in prospered prior to and died after.

And the alliance I was in prior to was forced to disband, with no other recorse, for attacking a nation who, while under no AA, was actually in a protectorate of HoG, while I havent seen that happen after.

[WarriorConcept]

Your a little new to have heard it, but there was a dream of "A kinder gentler CN" (an actual quote). Talk about evil, you have no idea how alliances used to behave back then. There would be massive wars because of some errant post on the forums, it was common for alliances to be forced to disband, rough times. Life for an alliance was brutish and short. (In fact, I'll let you in on a secret that viceroy's were actually created as a way to make post-war a constructive event instead of leaving the alliance unable to support itself and collapse.

Why does this part of the post make me laugh out loud? Someone needs to go back to the academy and re-read how GWI started, and whom started it (Hi NPO!). Alliances being pushed to disband, surely NPO would've never supported that. Viceroys meant to help alliances become better, I wonder how the worked out for ONOS, eh NPO?

[WarriorConcept]

I didnt say world peace, and if I did, I misspoke. But please compare general alliance behavior before and after 1V and Q.

EDIT: They enjoyed the view? Never asked, so please enlighten me.

I dunno, ask your own alliance members and allies how they treated Vox Populi, NpO, FAN, and others?

[muffasamini]

Why does this part of the post make me laugh out loud? Someone needs to go back to the academy and re-read how GWI started, and whom started it (Hi NPO!). Alliances being pushed to disband, surely NPO would've never supported that. Viceroys meant to help alliances become better, I wonder how the worked out for ONOS, eh NPO?

First, (but least importantly) it was instated in a time where the normal mode of operation at that point was to declare that ONOS should just disband, or give them impossible reps. But yea, it didnt work. Viceroy's have in retrospect shown to be often unsuccessful. Ivan was hoping to help ONOS, but failed miserably, to the detriment of many.

It was a post about the difference between intentions and results.

Edited June 18, 2009 by muffasamini

[WarriorConcept]

It didnt work out, viceroy's have shown to be often unsuccessful. It was a post about the difference between intentions and results.

Ivan was hoping to help ONOS, but failed miserably, to the detriment of many.

Yes, I'm sure your intentions were always to help out ONOS

Also, how many other alliances have placed viceroys on others besides NPO?

[Merrie Melodies]

And the alliance I was in prior to was forced to disband, with no other recorse, for attacking a nation who, while under no AA, was actually in a protectorate of HoG, while I havent seen that happen after.

I would say alliances dying because they had a reroll as a member is just as bad, maybe worse, wouldn't you?

[Ivan Moldavi]

I never intended to help ONOS at all. I intended to get NPO out of a war with an alliance that was taking up resources for our low to mid range nations so that we could prepare for the larger enemy around the corner. Nothing more, nothing less.

[brickyard]

Well said.

If members like you are the future of NPO, the order just went up a peg in my books.

[Delta1212]

I never intended to help ONOS at all. I intended to get NPO out of a war with an alliance that was taking up resources for our low to mid range nations so that we could prepare for the larger enemy around the corner. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like you. You're fun.

[neneko]

I followed Jipps thread as he tried to have a truly open discussion about it all and I was appalled at how some responded. Much of it was pure vitriole and hate.

It only took you from here

My memory will now vividly recall this period of CN history as so many of you recall the events of the past I was not part of.

to here

To figure out why people are mad at NPO. Good job.

As has been stated already this would be much more convincing if you weren't in peacemode though.

[ShinRa]

Please. I'm guessing your just an involved new member, not a re-roll. Notice how even your experienced counterparts havent said this. Please actually ask someone or look up why Q and 1V was formed, and why we did the things we did.

Your a little new to have heard it, but there was a dream of "A kinder gentler CN" (an actual quote). Talk about evil, you have no idea how alliances used to behave back then. There would be massive wars because of some errant post on the forums, it was common for alliances to be forced to disband, rough times. Life for an alliance was brutish and short. (In fact, I'll let you in on a secret that viceroy's were actually created as a way to make post-war a constructive event instead of leaving the alliance unable to support itself and collapse. I they may not have been morally right, but it was better than the alternatives).

1V and Q put the NPO and themselves in a position of hedgemony to keep peace, at least for everyone they liked. The CN since then has been actually ridiculously peaceful. We made this peace at the detriment of some, as well as those that wanted to return CN to the war like tendencies, yes, but for the benefit of often forgetful friends.

We enforced this with a sharp eye and hard jackboot indeed, and we stomped on many toes to keep the vision alive, but do not say we did all this, played the henchmen, were tools of our allies as long as we could see our dream realized, just because we wanted to be number one is some "rat race."

And you've utterly missed the point of my post.

I never stated that peace was a good thing for CN, nor do I think that you truly changed things. NPO, Q, 1V were not the saints you describe them as and you'll have to excuse me if I think you're talking out of your arse.

It doesn't matter why you created Q, Viceroys and everything else, it doesn't matter what good you did for everyone who chose to remain under your power and influence. What matters is that you abused your power, you abused the MDP web, you abused the very mechanics of this game, and you abused the role of a Viceroy to turn alliances into extensions of your own power and mass tech farms.

A kinder gentler CN is not one you rule with spies, violence against anyone outside your influence or one in which you try to remove all possibly future competition via any methods possible, EZI for example or refusing to even recognize that surrenders had been sent by an alliance. I'm talking about GATO here, but this also partially applies to FAN.

Consider this, everything the NPO committed in the past ultimately lead for them to gain more power and to stay on top. Nothing more, you simply made CN better for yourselves and no one else.

Peace and order are not good things for CN, they warped it into a mere shadow of what it had been and quite frankly after looking at some of the threads back when people were fighting each other over posts I would have preferred that over everything which took place after GWIII.

[Balkan Banania]

Why does this part of the post make me laugh out loud? Someone needs to go back to the academy and re-read how GWI started, and whom started it (Hi NPO!).

Just for consistency's shake the GWI started with Yaridovich LUEicide and Tyga's nuking (NpO Emperor back then) on Duffman (sp?), resulting to the declaration of LUE on NpO, then NPO entered the war. If i remember correctly GATO used the nuking as an excuse to take the side of LUE, although in the forums it was stated that the action by Yaridovich was to not be tolerated, but the logic was that GATO was allied with LUE and the nuking immediately triggered the treaty. So I don't see NPO intervention in here at least not as the leading violin.

[WarriorConcept]

Just for consistency's shake the GWI started with Yaridovich LUEicide and Tyga's nuking (NpO Emperor back then) on Duffman (sp?), resulting to the declaration of LUE on NpO, then NPO entered the war. If i remember correctly GATO used the nuking as an excuse to take the side of LUE, although in the forums it was stated that the action by Yaridovich was to not be tolerated, but the logic was that GATO was allied with LUE and the nuking immediately triggered the treaty. So I don't see NPO intervention in here at least not as the leading violin.

NPO still supported the action of moderating the forums back then.

[Bilrow]

Yes, I'm sure your intentions were always to help out ONOS

Also, how many other alliances have placed viceroys on others besides NPO?

At least two

Van Hoo III of Ragnarok was made viceroy of The Illuminati after the Illuminati War.

MyWorld of the New Polar Order was made viceroy of the Black Defense Council after the staged BDC-BC War.

[Diogenes]

I think it's great that you're a member of the New Pacific Order as they are a loyal PIAT partner of the Mushroom Kingdom. However, I would caution against allowing loyalty to blind your perspective of this game and its politics.

Also uranium.

[Vilien]

At least two

Van Hoo III of Ragnarok was made viceroy of The Illuminati after the Illuminati War.

MyWorld of the New Polar Order was made viceroy of the Black Defense Council after the staged BDC-BC War.

Those are the only two. Out of a grand total of how many...?

[Schattenmann]

Since you missed my post. He is hardly "hiding" in peace mode.

Starfox, Republic of Roma, and many other Vox nations went 9 months without aid or peace mode. Starfox has laughing rights in any thread.

Timing is left to politicians. I am no politician nor is my post political. I have seen reflections of other CN community members on the war and this was simply mine. It's an honest post from a civil warrior. To give me any credence either negative or positive as a politician of the NPO is a stretch. I lost my NS in a war that I am starting to really understand. Maybe had I read more early on I might not have joined Pacifica. But without knowing their history I got to know the people before I got to the history, so having an unbiased look at the history was no longer possible. Its the people in the end that are more important than anything else. I have suffered the aggression of Karma and it has made me more biased toward those who have and continue to stand by me. People like Bilrow. I did not ask Bilrow to post. He came to my aid.

You're suffering is not at the hands of Karma but of your own blissfully, flippant arrogant ignorance.

If you weren't aggressing at this point you would have ended the war once the threat to OV was ended, by continuing the war past the point of your original intentions you have indeed become the aggressors.

NPO started the war, they know how to stop it.

LOL...Muffin that's a reroll.

ReRoll is not the word. ShinRa has existed for over a year, always with the same name.

Well then he forgot our history. So my point still stands!

He didn't forget anything, you simply didn't present a history. You wrote a moving farce.

[Balkan Banania]

NPO still supported the action of moderating the forums back then.

That's not what you claimed and although I was GATOer back then I don't remember it at least not as an annoyance. Anyway, with this I will stop derailing the thread

[flak attack]

I like you. You're fun.

No kidding.

[Space Ghost]

Ugh... smoke, mirrors, PR & traps... gotta love inexperienced players buying it.

**/me ignores his re-rolled account's joined date and post count.

[kingzog]

As a member of Clan Graham myself I find your sig kind of offensive.

lol

As a member of clan Graham who's probably old enough to be your father I'm telling you I don't care what you think.

Shall we go for another 'no u', Precious?

[Doitzel]

Considering Doitzel trolled everyone wearing the NPO AA regardless of who they were and what they said, I am not surprised.

Nothing really surprises me anymore.

I was tough on the organisation as a whole. I was soft on the people themselves. The hypersensitive footsoldiers born of Pax Pacifica could never understand the difference. You were each a part of, complicit in, and supporting the organisation I battled. If I could force you to challenge your own perceptions and views all the better, but if not I wasn't going to let you get away without making you look like an idiot if I could help it. You all reflect on the whole.

Anyway, it's funny you're speaking about HeinousOne on that topic. I laid it on the line for him, he wound up realising I was correct and despite the acidic nature of our exchanges we've always gotten along. Big, mean Doitzel found many such friends in NPO over the months. Fancy that.

[ModusOperandi]

I'm really getting tired of reading things like these; please note, not everyone in CN is silly enough not to assume that this is propaganda.

If everyone in the Cyberverse began writing editorials on "Why am I a member of?" you would understand; personally, I believe this would be more apt to be placed in the Alliance Recruitment forum.

The fact that your a recent member has nothing to do with your lack of responsibility with Pacifican crimes; being a gang member is the same as being in a gang, no?

Edited June 18, 2009 by ModusOperandi

[kingzog]

I'm really getting tired of reading things like these....

I'm not.

Apparently the NPO Academy does not include classes in "unintended consequences" else we wouldn't see these at all. What kind of fun would that be?

[Ogaden]

I was tough on the organisation as a whole. I was soft on the people themselves. The hypersensitive footsoldiers born of Pax Pacifica could never understand the difference. You were each a part of, complicit in, and supporting the organisation I battled. If I could force you to challenge your own perceptions and views all the better, but if not I wasn't going to let you get away without making you look like an idiot if I could help it. You all reflect on the whole.

Anyway, it's funny you're speaking about HeinousOne on that topic. I laid it on the line for him, he wound up realising I was correct and despite the acidic nature of our exchanges we've always gotten along. Big, mean Doitzel found many such friends in NPO over the months. Fancy that.

Well, from my experience I could be polite, rude, contrite or even self-flagellating and I'd be trolled just as much on here regardless.

Sort of gave me a different perspective.