Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 The problem with this is the fact that while everyone fighting NPO isn't tied to everyone else fighting NPO, the front is built on the foundation of a few tight blocs, namely C&G, LEO and SF. That alone accounts for over half of the alliances facing NPO and adding in direct allies fills it up. I don't expect anyone in these blocs to abandon their bloc-mates or allies, and while everyone may not have a treaty with everyone else, there is just enough overlap to make it very difficult if not impossible for any significant section to pull out without leaving at least someone they are directly allied to behind on the front. This is largely a result of the fact that because NPO was the first front of the war, all of those alliances that opened on the front can tie their entrance through the treaty web to the initial declaration on Ordo Verde. Whereas other fronts often had multiple routes of entry that had completely unconnected alliances joining through entirely different obligations, the NPO front is all joined at the very least at the point of OV. As long as they remain in the war, no significant group can break away cleanly with all of their allies. It's not a sure-fire prevention of fracturing, but considering the particular alliances on the front, it's a pretty damn good incentive. Indeed they are all tied to OV yet OV hasn't been in a position of threat since the first week of the war. This loose coalition hasn't been fighting a defensive war since week one it has been a offensive war. You can point to the treaties and to the road leading to OV but at the same time I'll wager you could find a way out of this war if you wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) I quoted your post in agreeance, as unbelievable as that must sound these days. Sorry, I think I have misinterpreted your words. The blame is all on me, the silly Dutchman. Edited June 18, 2009 by Tromp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Indeed they are all tied to OV yet OV hasn't been in a position of threat since the first week of the war. This loose coalition hasn't been fighting a defensive war since week one it has been a offensive war. You can point to the treaties and to the road leading to OV but at the same time I'll wager you could find a way out of this war if you wanted to. I'm sure you know that NPO was offered terms. They were rejected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fupresti Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Why does the OP avatar seem so familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm sure you know that NPO was offered terms. They were rejected... I wasn't referring to NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If you weren't aggressing at this point you would have ended the war once the threat to OV was ended, by continuing the war past the point of your original intentions you have indeed become the aggressors. Karma has to give OV their money back that was wasted fighting NPO, but NPO won't share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Karma has to give OV their money back that was wasted fighting NPO, but NPO won't share. Ill wager if that is all that is keeping this war going it could be settled immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalen Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If you weren't aggressing at this point you would have ended the war once the threat to OV was ended, by continuing the war past the point of your original intentions you have indeed become the aggressors. I dunno. One could argue that while NPO is still around, the threat isn't ended. How are the last alliances who won a war against NPO doing? Myself, I wouldn't go quite that far, but I will say that Brutal Psychoticus here is far and away more sensible than any IO posts that I recall. Perhaps he should gun for government if there's a mixup? This post speaks well for a future in politics: Timing is left to politicians. I am no politician nor is my post political. I have seen reflections of other CN community members on the war and this was simply mine. It's an honest post from a civil warrior. To give me any credence either negative or positive as a politician of the NPO is a stretch. I lost my NS in a war that I am starting to really understand. Maybe had I read more early on I might not have joined Pacifica. But without knowing their history I got to know the people before I got to the history, so having an unbiased look at the history was no longer possible. Its the people in the end that are more important than anything else. I have suffered the aggression of Karma and it has made me more biased toward those who have and continue to stand by me. People like Bilrow. I did not ask Bilrow to post. He came to my aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ill wager if that is all that is keeping this war going it could be settled immediately. It could, if NPO didn't want to sign equatable reps to the damages they've caused. Karma's trying to see to it that this kind of thing doesn't happen again, which takes more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixoux Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If you weren't aggressing at this point you would have ended the war once the threat to OV was ended, by continuing the war past the point of your original intentions you have indeed become the aggressors. And how exactly is the threat to OV 'ended'? NPO still fervently acclaims that they were right to attack OV, are still 12 times OV's size (though I don't expect them to be knocked down far enough to neutralize this point), and frankly until they surrender are still at war with OV and her allies. Once they surrender to the forces attacking them and peace is made, then it's over. We'd only be aggressing by deciding to re-declare in the middle of their peace terms. Wait, why does that sound familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 It could, if NPO didn't want to sign equatable reps to the damages they've caused. Karma's trying to see to it that this kind of thing doesn't happen again, which takes more. Oh come on now! This is going to happen again and again and again it just won't be NPO for a long time. If your going to sit there and tell me your waging the war to end all wars I'm gonna be LMAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Oh come on now! This is going to happen again and again and again it just won't be NPO for a long time. If your going to sit there and tell me your waging the war to end all wars I'm gonna be LMAO. Well, luckely that's just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Oh come on now! This is going to happen again and again and again it just won't be NPO for a long time. If your going to sit there and tell me your waging the war to end all wars I'm gonna be LMAO. No, it won't be the War to End all Wars. Hopefully it'll make others change their mind at the least, and prolong another one for quite a while. Edited June 18, 2009 by Rey the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 And how exactly is the threat to OV 'ended'? NPO still fervently acclaims that they were right to attack OV, are still 12 times OV's size (though I don't expect them to be knocked down far enough to neutralize this point), and frankly until they surrender are still at war with OV and her allies.Once they surrender to the forces attacking them and peace is made, then it's over. We'd only be aggressing by deciding to re-declare in the middle of their peace terms. Wait, why does that sound familiar. Oh really now? Why did TORN leave this war? Oh that's right NPO went looking for peace by itself like the second day of the war. Your war has been aggressive every since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Oh really now? Why did TORN leave this war? Oh that's right NPO went looking for peace by itself like the second day of the war. Your war has been aggressive every since. NPO didn't want peace. They wanted to regroup and try again with white peace. If they actually regretted declaring war they would have offered reparations and apologized to OV before seeking peace. Edited June 18, 2009 by Rey the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I find it amusing that he ignores any previous and ongoing conduct by his own alliance and only focuses on any anger we harbor. Pacifican internal propaganda still surprises me to no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 NPO didn't want peace. They wanted to regroup and try again with white peace. If they actually regretted declaring war they would have offered reparations and apologized to OV before seeking peace. After all their allies started canceling treaties you really think they were thinking regroup and attack again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Completely rubbish. How long did you say you were in NPO again? Look at his seniority. Pretty much every day he was around before he joined STA he was in Pacifica. In other words, longer than you. Also, I seem to remember a similar post from HeinousOne directed at Doitzel or RV at one point. Maybe I'm wrong though, but I'm getting a bit of a chuckle from the likelihood, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 OOC: I think it's more of a fact that the NPO leadership and older players need to remember this is a game, not a rat race or some sort of desperate battle for global dominion over everyone and everything.The sooner they remember that they're part of a game and start taking a less fanatic approach to playing it, the sooner things will be better for everyone. Please. I'm guessing your just an involved new member, not a re-roll. Notice how even your experienced counterparts havent said this. Please actually ask someone or look up why Q and 1V was formed, and why we did the things we did. Your a little new to have heard it, but there was a dream of "A kinder gentler CN" (an actual quote). Talk about evil, you have no idea how alliances used to behave back then. There would be massive wars because of some errant post on the forums, it was common for alliances to be forced to disband, rough times. Life for an alliance was brutish and short. (In fact, I'll let you in on a secret that viceroy's were actually created as a way to make post-war a constructive event instead of leaving the alliance unable to support itself and collapse. I they may not have been morally right, but it was better than the alternatives). 1V and Q put the NPO and themselves in a position of hedgemony to keep peace, at least for everyone they liked. The CN since then has been actually ridiculously peaceful. We made this peace at the detriment of some, as well as those that wanted to return CN to the war like tendencies, yes, but for the benefit of often forgetful friends. We enforced this with a sharp eye and hard jackboot indeed, and we stomped on many toes to keep the vision alive, but do not say we did all this, played the henchmen, were tools of our allies as long as we could see our dream realized, just because we wanted to be number one is some "rat race." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 LOL...Muffin that's a reroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Look at his seniority. Pretty much every day he was around before he joined STA he was in Pacifica. In other words, longer than you. Also, I seem to remember a similar post from HeinousOne directed at Doitzel or RV at one point. Maybe I'm wrong though, but I'm getting a bit of a chuckle from the likelihood, though. Considering Doitzel trolled everyone wearing the NPO AA regardless of who they were and what they said, I am not surprised. Nothing really surprises me anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 LOL...Muffin that's a reroll. Well then he forgot our history. So my point still stands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Please. I'm guessing your just an involved new member, not a re-roll. Notice how even your experienced counterparts havent said this. Please actually ask someone or look up why Q and 1V was formed, and why we did the things we did. Your a little new to have heard it, but there was a dream of "A kinder gentler CN" (an actual quote). Talk about evil, you have no idea how alliances used to behave back then. There would be massive wars because of some errant post on the forums, it was common for alliances to be forced to disband, rough times. Life for an alliance was brutish and short. (In fact, I'll let you in on a secret that viceroy's were actually created as a way to make post-war a constructive event instead of leaving the alliance unable to support itself and collapse. I they may not have been morally right, but it was better than the alternatives). 1V and Q put the NPO and themselves in a position of hedgemony to keep peace, at least for everyone they liked. The CN since then has been actually ridiculously peaceful. We made this peace at the detriment of some, as well as those that wanted to return CN to the war like tendencies, yes, but for the benefit of often forgetful friends. We enforced this with a sharp eye and hard jackboot indeed, and we stomped on many toes to keep the vision alive, but do not say we did all this, played the henchmen, were tools of our allies as long as we could see our dream realized, just because we wanted to be number one is some "rat race." To be fair I doubt there would have been more wars, to claim 1V abd Q were assembled for world peace is a joke. Having fought with and against NPO and friends I find your position laughable. Were was the peace for FAN? Where was the honoring of treaties with UJP? Where was the peace with VOX? Here is a question for you, how did it come to be that Bilrow and DarkMistress came to reside in NPO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) To be fair I doubt there would have been more wars, to claim 1V abd Q were assembled for world peace is a joke. I didnt say world peace, and if I did, I misspoke. But please compare general alliance behavior before and after 1V and Q. EDIT: They enjoyed the view? Never asked, so please enlighten me. Edited June 18, 2009 by muffasamini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I didnt say world peace, and if I did, I misspoke. But please compare general alliance behavior before and after 1V and Q. The alliance I was in prospered prior to and died after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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