Why Karma made me a Pacifican

[WarriorConcept]

What else would you expect from a bunch of unorganized barbarians? Why do we even have to explain ourselves?

You're right, keep on fighting!

[Tromp]

The way I see it (and I am guessing some in NPO) is no one really knows how strong that resolve is and how long it will last. If I were NPO I would drag this war out at least 60 more days just to see if 18 (18 is a hell of a lot of governments and personalities) alliances can stay on page that long.

Don't worry, our resolve is very strong.

Not that we needed to prove that again, all attempts to divide us have failed.

[Neo Uruk]

The way I see it (and I am guessing some in NPO) is no one really knows how strong that resolve is and how long it will last. If I were NPO I would drag this war out at least 60 more days just to see if 18 (18 is a hell of a lot of governments and personalities) alliances can stay on page that long.

As long as their allies have allies there that agree they will.

[Merrie Melodies]

Don't worry, our resolve is very strong.

Not that we needed to prove that again, all attempts to divide us have failed.

Really? What attempts have been made to divide you? Hmm?

I'll go on record now saying that this coalition will fracture if this war continues 60 more days.

[Ogaden]

Most of them? Nice propaganda.

As far as a "if it aint broke dont fix it" attitude, it has been obvious to most that such hasn't been the case for quite awhile. The descent was a long one but the end of that road was obvious as to what would happen. To see how your government turned so much of the world including some of it's allies is to see how NPO policy truly has been broken and that is a direct reflection upon current leadership which is the Emperor And the Imperial Officers. Their emotional investment is due to being at the pinnacle of so much power. Controlling a system that holds 900 nations at your whim is one that can easily corrupt.

Continue to keep your eyes open but be prepared. They may try and prop you up for PR reasons or they may begin to think you are a threat. In the end, either is better then the alternative, ignorance.

Completely rubbish. How long did you say you were in NPO again?

[Tromp]

Really? What attempts have been made to divide you? Hmm?

I'll go on record now saying that this coalition will fracture if this war continues 60 more days.

Too much speculation. But I like it.

[Delta1212]

Really? What attempts have been made to divide you? Hmm?

I'll go on record now saying that this coalition will fracture if this war continues 60 more days.

The problem with this is the fact that while everyone fighting NPO isn't tied to everyone else fighting NPO, the front is built on the foundation of a few tight blocs, namely C&G, LEO and SF. That alone accounts for over half of the alliances facing NPO and adding in direct allies fills it up. I don't expect anyone in these blocs to abandon their bloc-mates or allies, and while everyone may not have a treaty with everyone else, there is just enough overlap to make it very difficult if not impossible for any significant section to pull out without leaving at least someone they are directly allied to behind on the front. This is largely a result of the fact that because NPO was the first front of the war, all of those alliances that opened on the front can tie their entrance through the treaty web to the initial declaration on Ordo Verde. Whereas other fronts often had multiple routes of entry that had completely unconnected alliances joining through entirely different obligations, the NPO front is all joined at the very least at the point of OV. As long as they remain in the war, no significant group can break away cleanly with all of their allies. It's not a sure-fire prevention of fracturing, but considering the particular alliances on the front, it's a pretty damn good incentive.

[HeinousOne]

Completely rubbish. How long did you say you were in NPO again?

Thank you for this. I think I can step away now knowing my point was proven. Ad Hom is a last resort.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Fortunately, the NSO has not issued a governmental decree about how terrible it is for an alliance to use it and how nations should embrace war.

Peace is a lie.

There, that is as official as it gets from the NSO point of view.

[Starfox101]

You're hiding in peace mode, and talking about giving it all up for Pacifica...

Pity not given.

[thenb]

There needs to be a point where we go from "revenge" on npo to remembering that this is just a game, and you carrying out "revenge" on some pacifican nation is probably on some 10 year old kid wondering why you wont leave him alone.

[Neo Uruk]

Really? What attempts have been made to divide you? Hmm?

I'll go on record now saying that this coalition will fracture if this war continues 60 more days.

I'm just going to save this for now.

See you in 60 days.

[Bilrow]

You're hiding in peace mode, and talking about giving it all up for Pacifica...

Pity not given.

Since you missed my post. He is hardly "hiding" in peace mode.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Bilrow

[ShinRa]

There needs to be a point where we go from "revenge" on npo to remembering that this is just a game, and you carrying out "revenge" on some pacifican nation is probably on some 10 year old kid wondering why you wont leave him alone.

OOC: I think it's more of a fact that the NPO leadership and older players need to remember this is a game, not a rat race or some sort of desperate battle for global dominion over everyone and everything.

The sooner they remember that they're part of a game and start taking a less fanatic approach to playing it, the sooner things will be better for everyone.

You're hiding in peace mode, and talking about giving it all up for Pacifica...

Pity not given.

That's already been brought up Starfox, apparently he's been 'cycled out' of combat for the time being.

But I agree, the OP could have chosen a better time to post this.

[Louisa]

Plus, i'll bring up this important point. Was NPO really that bad? Really. Imagine who the world could have been governed by instead. GOONS? FAN? \m/? LUE? Those were among the stronger alliances throughout CN, and despite all of NPO's shortcomings, would you really want shark attack week to continue on the forums, tech raiding of pretty much any nation or alliance who cannot defend itself, aggressive wars with more aggressive endings waged frequently, and pretty much a breakdown of what we consider CN norms?

The (semi-)death of the four Alliances that you mention certainly did never end Tech Raiding, and the aggressive wars seem to have rolled on just fine with out them too, so I am not sure what dreamland you are thinking of where those things never happen. Of course I am sligthly biased since I happen to like all those Alliances; back then there was some fun in the forums.

Plus Shark Week was absolutely the best thing ever. Well that and Max33l

Also tomorrow it is my turn to post the daily "Why I am a Pacifican" thread ok?

e: forgot a word

Edited June 18, 2009 by Louisa

[Jipps]

It is funny you say this, because you actually prove me right.

Not all of Karma thinks/thought they were saviours, nor did they went in to punish others for past wrongdoings. Most of the time people don't even care for the reasonings, because it (is highly likely that) wouldn't always suit their personal agenda.

I quoted your post in agreeance, as unbelievable as that must sound these days.

[Neo Uruk]

Plus Shark Week was absolutely the best thing ever. Well that and Max33l

Not to mention that some of the new world powers were in GOONS, LUE, \m/, and FAN.

[Brutal Psychoticus]

Timing is left to politicians. I am no politician nor is my post political. I have seen reflections of other CN community members on the war and this was simply mine. It's an honest post from a civil warrior. To give me any credence either negative or positive as a politician of the NPO is a stretch. I lost my NS in a war that I am starting to really understand. Maybe had I read more early on I might not have joined Pacifica. But without knowing their history I got to know the people before I got to the history, so having an unbiased look at the history was no longer possible. Its the people in the end that are more important than anything else. I have suffered the aggression of Karma and it has made me more biased toward those who have and continue to stand by me. People like Bilrow. I did not ask Bilrow to post. He came to my aid.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Brutal Psychoticus

[Neo Uruk]

I have suffered the aggression of Karma and it has made me more biased toward those who have and continue to stand by me. People like Bilrow. I did not ask Bilrow to post. He came to my aid.

Sorry, but we still aren't aggressing. And I certainly didn't think you asked Bilrow to post. I thought you asked GGA to post (just kidding, running joke is pretty old anyway)

[Merrie Melodies]

I'm just going to save this for now.

See you in 60 days.

I'll be looking forward to the chat.

[Brutal Psychoticus]

I am not above a good joke Rey.

[ShinRa]

If it's people like Bilrow you stand along side, then you have really chosen the wrong side in this whole war.

People like he will abandon you or backstab you when you have no longer any use to them or you oppose their views.

Judging by his personality and past actions he's more than likely not here to defend you, he's here because people are speaking out against the NPO and ruining it's chances of getting better PR. Nothing more.

[Merrie Melodies]

Sorry, but we still aren't aggressing. And I certainly didn't think you asked Bilrow to post. I thought you asked GGA to post (just kidding, running joke is pretty old anyway)

If you weren't aggressing at this point you would have ended the war once the threat to OV was ended, by continuing the war past the point of your original intentions you have indeed become the aggressors.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

Sorry to backtrack, but I really hate when I see this

"the harshest terms ever offered in the history of CN".

Absolutely and completely false. I couldn't imagine anything you could've said that would be more wrong.

[Vhalen]

See the problem here is while I cannot argue what happened and who did what in the past. I can however point a few things that just do not seem to add up. For example.

All alliances that have been destroyed or crushed either by NPO directly or by NPO's thuggish allies who used NPO's strength to back up their own aggression. But yet many of these 'allies" are now a part of the Karma group? This makes it okay that they have directed their aggression towards NPO and not other groups?

To be fair to ex-allies, I doubt they had much of a choice. NPO had worked very hard to establish a "join us or die if you get too strong" world. They behaved like a paranoid (or, if you prefer, pretended to behave so, and using that guise to lash out for kicks...either way), and used blocs and treaties to block up the stream of resentment that resulted from that. We can't be too surprised that once the dam cracked, there was a monumental flood.

KARMA has already been far more lenient, kind, and forgiving than the Hegemony ever was. If true karma was pulled into play - if equal penalties were imposed according to the offenses - there would be many alliances right now crushed into oblivion instead of merely removed from the war. I am not sure what your trying to say here. "karma" has not had much of a opportunity to be anything besides what they have shown themselves to be. Will they keep down that path that they have started which is to say being far worse the NPO could ever be? And yes they have started down that path with both "arrogance" and "the harshest terms ever offered in the history of CN". Will 'Karma" realize that they themselves will bring apart their own downfall just by the thirst for revenge and vengeance? I would hope a group that claims to be so abused in the past (once more if they were or were not as abused as they claim I cannot argue) would do everything that they can to break the abuse cycle and work towards a peaceful planet bob. But you and I both know that will not happen.

I think what is being said here is largely that most alliances, especially peripheral ones who were drawn in by treaties, were not subjected to undue punitive measures. I hope that you haven't managed to delude yourself into thinking that the NPO is one of those peripheral alliances, and therefore due white peace. Oh, wait, the, "Joe hit you, but don't hit him back. Instead, fast track his firearm papers. I'm sure he'll learn his lesson." argument. That's good too. There's a line of thought taking into account that time this happened, NPO showed amazing skill at holding a grudge, and since you're already going to be on a hit list, why not make it as hard as possible for them to put out the contract?

Edited June 18, 2009 by Vhalen