Biggest alliance mess up of all time?

[Vilien]

I bet your Norwegian is awesome.

Not speaking a language well does not induce you to troll the hell out of any thread that you post in. That said, my Danish is probably good enough for me to understand his Norwegian.

[enderland]

It was a loose coalition from the start, and everybody knew it. Which is also why some people paniced at times, because one false move could make the coalition fall apart. Instead, OV was attacked during negotiations. Heh, still, it was a fun time.

Karma may not be perfect now, but as Hizzy already said, the moment after NPO really attacked OV we were more united than ever before.

Fixed that for you

[Doitzel]

That was a fun query where you were raging about publically tarring and feathering the people responsible for making us lose. I think you went on for a good half hour describing how you were never going to let anyone forget whose fault it was.

Ah, memories. Some people should really be grateful to NPO for bailing them out of having to deal with us post-war.

[astronaut jones]

Don't you get it? They know you better than you know yourself and couldn't possibly know anything about the alliances you're talking about (the ones the like, at least).

This is because they're special, and you're not.

I should just slink away to some corner until I die, because I'm apparently not worthy enough to be in their presence. All hail the wannabe kings of Planet Bob! For we are not worthy of them.

[Deadshot]

I really don't want to stoop down to your level of making metaphors or hiding behind some farce of formality.

You need to take some etiquette classes. Grub has always been a polite, honest poster. Becoming more like him would be a good thing.

I know you probably don't believe me, but if NPO had not attacked OV, or if they had waited 48 hours (or, at least until the talks were concluded), Karma would have fallen apart.

How many times I've tried to explain this very thing.

Honestly, one day when this is all well in the past and logs start popping up from what went on in Karma's channel, everyone's gonna be like "wow, I can't believe we got our asses kicked by that."

I'm not even exaggerating. I logged off IRC and went to bed thinking we're all boned, and praying for a miracle that could rally Karma together and unify everyone... I woke up and found that NPO had attacked OV and I realized God really granted me my one b-day wish. Then I felt like a retard for wasting my 1 b-day wish on cybernations, and instead of having hot strippers to wake up to, I got the Karma War.

Both of these i believe wholeheartedly though I have never seen the logs. Most of us felt that had we not taken action, the minority of Karma who simply wanted revenge or blood or whatever you want to call it, would have eventually done something completely stupid and find themselves without the allies they were counting on. Along countless threads people have debated what NPO has done, that they engaged in wars simply to remove a threat, percieved or real. Which is exactly what Karma(not all) was doing this whole time. I firmly believe some on Karma side were baiting NPO into action and more than likely noticing we were trying to bait you as well.

Prior to the shots heard round the world, I think most would agree, whoever fired first was in for an $@! kicking. Too many nuetrals or undecided to factor in beside knowing they would not back the aggressor.

I believe the mass cancelation on NPO after the first shots rang out was the worst decision that could have been made because of the percieved lasting effect. That gave Karma the bloodlust and the balls it may have been lacking and enabled them to say, "$%&@ yeah, we can end this". Also, we lost a few undecided alliances.

Try as we might, we couldn't convince some to listen to the plans we were laying. Oh well, it was still a blast.

[Crymson]

Why dont you go $%&@ yourself then.

I apologize for the behavior of this member; TOP does not condone such a demeanor on the boards from any of our members, regardless of the circumstances, and the member in question will be spoken with.

[Baron deSandersted]

Dear Great Friends Across The Planet Digiterra,

The humble nation of Alisaunder has never had any direct

dealings with the NPO, but we have always held the highest

degree of respect for both the NPO and the Emperor.

If we are discussing foul-ups made by alliances, there was

one that occurred when my nation was very young......

In August of 2006, the Prime Minister (Spazzen)and a troublesome

minion (Shadow) of the old Neutral Destruction Network (NDN)

heard that Prodigal Chieftain had planned to "re-roll" his nation

(Celtic Empire).

Those that do not remember the old NDN, will need to know that

it was an alliance of only 35 members that held only one Nuclear

Weapon. Lord Prodigal Chieftain was the leader of the GGA.

At that time the GGA had well over 300 members and hundreds

of Nuclear Weapons.

Once they knew that Lord Prodigal Chieftain had temporarily retired

his nation, Spazzen allowed Shadow to quickly grab up the name

Prodigal Chieftain and the nation name Celtic Empire.

Of course, this rightfully infuriated the GGA and several other high

ranking members of major alliances and at least 5 different alliances

were lining up to extinguish the NDN.

As the newly appointed Minister of Foreign Relations, I had been

placed in a very difficult situation. Spazzen and Shadow had played

this dangerous game, without the approval or even the knowledge of

the Council.

It took a week for me to talk Spazzen into having Shadow delete the

nation with the stolen names. It finally happened at around 4am, on

August 28, 2006. Within minutes, I penned a letter of apology to Kevin

The Great of the GGA.

In that letter I told him that this childish action was taken, against

Prodigal Chieftain, without NDN Council approval and that it was not

the desire of the NDN rank and file to war with the GGA.

Kevin the Great was very gracious and accepted my humble apology.

The NDN was spared almost certain annihilation.

This action by my Prime Minister gave me the hint that our leadership

was unstable and likely to start a major war via similar pranks.

After one painful week of waiting, Alisaunder joined the ODN, once I

knew for sure that the NDN would be spared. If the NDN were to be

warred upon, it would have been my duty to stay and try to defend

the alliance, despite the hopelessness of the situation.

About 2 weeks after I left, Spazzen started an entirely new conflict by

launching his one and only nuke, over a personal dispute. At that time,

Nuclear First Strikes were permitted. This started an inter-alliance war

between the NDN and the Blue Guard. Several other smaller alliances

joined in the maylay. The new conflict was called the SPAWARZ. The

NDN was destroyed and the members were scattered.

Though the old NDN was a minor player, in world politics, I thought

that some might find this old story somewhat amusing.

Your Most Humble Servant,

[hizzy]

I apologize for the behavior of this member; TOP does not condone such a demeanor on the boards from any of our members, regardless of the circumstances, and the member in question will be spoken with.

No worries bud.

[Kowalski]

Not only did NPO's actions unify Karma but just as importantly it caused a major split between NPO and their allies, who either delayed their involvement in the war or who fought on the opposite side.

[Assington]

Though the old NDN was a minor player, in world politics, I thought

that some might find this old story somewhat amusing.

Hehe, I remember that. I'd definitely vote for that as one of the most irresponsible and stupid things an alliance leader has ever done in this game.

[Doitzel]

Though the old NDN was a minor player, in world politics, I thought

that some might find this old story somewhat amusing.

I remember that, heh. Didn't know you were still around.

[Azrael Alexander]

Seeing as all the main ones have been said I may as well say what i think MHA's biggest mistake is. Personally it would have to be the way we handled atlantis, it had to be done thought CZ

[Starcraftmazter]

NPO backstabbing their biggest and most loyal allies. FAN, GOONS, \m/ and Genmay immediately come to mind.

[Sarkin]

NPO keeping Moo in power rather than letting Ivan return and rule.

I mean, c'mon. "No, we don't want the most dynamic, influential personality the game has ever seen. Nah. We're cool."

Edit:

while the cancellation on Polaris last August remains a hotspot of shame and regret....if i could only turn the clock back

Really? I don't remember more than one or two people in about thirty on IRC the days leading up to that war that felt in any way, shape, or form that ODN should help Polaris. I was shot down by pretty much every government member I spoke to, and in frank discussions of, "This will only delay NPO's murder of us," I was told that that was pretty much fine and all we were looking for. I didn't see an ounce of doubt or anything involving regret at the time, only a very cold, hard calculation. You might regret that decision now, but I'm more than a little bit curious about how much of that is honest "We failed our friends" and how much of it is "We could be in a much better position now politically."

Shameful, indeed.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Sarkin

[Zombie Glaucon]

Really? I don't remember more than one or two people in about thirty on IRC the days leading up to that war that felt in any way, shape, or form that ODN should help Polaris. I was shot down by pretty much every government member I spoke to, and in frank discussions of, "This will only delay NPO's murder of us," I was told that that was pretty much fine and all we were looking for. I didn't see an ounce of doubt or anything involving regret at the time, only a very cold, hard calculation. You might regret that decision now, but I'm more than a little bit curious about how much of that is honest "We failed our friends" and how much of it is "We could be in a much better position now politically."

Cataduanes is most likely speaking personally (and probably for a measure of the ODN membership, who often disagree with what their elected leaders do for them). There should be no doubt about his sincerity.

[hizzy]

NPO keeping Moo in power rather than letting Ivan return and rule.

I mean, c'mon. "No, we don't want the most dynamic, influential personality the game has ever seen. Nah. We're cool."

Edit:

Really? I don't remember more than one or two people in about thirty on IRC the days leading up to that war that felt in any way, shape, or form that ODN should help Polaris. I was shot down by pretty much every government member I spoke to, and in frank discussions of, "This will only delay NPO's murder of us," I was told that that was pretty much fine and all we were looking for. I didn't see an ounce of doubt or anything involving regret at the time, only a very cold, hard calculation. You might regret that decision now, but I'm more than a little bit curious about how much of that is honest "We failed our friends" and how much of it is "We could be in a much better position now politically."

Shameful, indeed.

In Cata's defense (and lord knows I don't defend orange commies lol) that's not quite what he said dude. He just said he regrets the decision... ODN choosing to ditch Polaris as a calculated move, and regretting it now are not mutually exclusive. It wasn't like he said that they really wanted to but didn't or something.

Hopefully ODN's lesson can be learned by more alliances in this game; infra comes and goes and can be forget... but ditching your friends in a time of need will cast a dark cloud over your head that everyone will notice and remember. It's simply not worth it.

[kingzog]

[kerschbs]

Cataduanes is most likely speaking personally (and probably for a measure of the ODN membership, who often disagree with what their elected leaders do for them). There should be no doubt about his sincerity.

Absolutely. Cata is hands down one of the most sincere players I have met in CN. I also consider him to be in the top 99% of all ODN members, mainly because of his courage and dedication in the GATO-1v war. The mans word is good.

[Grumpdogg]

I don't usually agree with the whole "Fallen Fail" thing, but that cracked me up Sigged.

Oh you'd better believe the High Court of Wigglage actually exists on the Polar boards. To watch the proceedings go here: http://polarorder.net/index.php?topic=43899.0

[Incitatus]

Green Civil War and Philosopher distorting logs that "magically" ended up in the hands of the NPO.

[Master-Debater]

OoO canceled

Viridicide, Dillrow, GGA mass attack on Green

Moo remaining in power when the world was sick of him and Ivan came back

Attacks on Polaris

GATO/Legion wars by NPO

Killing of FAN GOONS \m/ Genmay

Theres tons of others but thats probably the biggest ones I can think of.

[Joe Kremlin]

Viridicide, Dillrow, GGA mass attack on Green

Attacks on Polaris

GATO/Legion wars by NPO

Killing of FAN GOONS \m/ Genmay

I don't know if you can really call those mess ups. At the time they were very successful and people acting bitter about them now doesn't make them mistakes.

[Bob Janova]

Dilrow is pretty much the start of the global hatred of/laughing at GGA, so that one is worth a mention. The others, I agree with you, many of them were 'bad' actions but didn't bring any ill effects on the alliances which did them and don't count as a 'mess up'.

[Cataduanes]

Really? I don't remember more than one or two people in about thirty on IRC the days leading up to that war that felt in any way, shape, or form that ODN should help Polaris. I was shot down by pretty much every government member I spoke to, and in frank discussions of, "This will only delay NPO's murder of us," I was told that that was pretty much fine and all we were looking for. I didn't see an ounce of doubt or anything involving regret at the time, only a very cold, hard calculation. You might regret that decision now, but I'm more than a little bit curious about how much of that is honest "We failed our friends" and how much of it is "We could be in a much better position now politically."

Shameful, indeed.

heh i think those who know me know i am sincere, one must also take into account that i was just settling back into ODN after leaving GATO at the end of the GATO-21V curbstomp so it was all a little bewildering at the time...but once the dust settled and the full implications of that decision (which were made without the democratic imput of the membership i might add) became clear you can only begin to imagine the horror i felt

That decision was one that was certainly not in our best interest, and it was one made without the full knowledge of much of ODN's membership, one must bear that in mind when thinking back to that mess. As i have often said if i could turn back the clock man i would know what would have to be done, i have never been afraid to lose Pixels Sarkin...my track record confirms that

Cataduanes is most likely speaking personally (and probably for a measure of the ODN membership, who often disagree with what their elected leaders do for them). There should be no doubt about his sincerity.

Indeed i am, but lets be clear that i am not the only ODNista to think like this. It is with good reason that i have been re-elected to or served ODN's govt time and time again since my return from GATO.

In Cata's defense (and lord knows I don't defend orange commies lol) that's not quite what he said dude. He just said he regrets the decision... ODN choosing to ditch Polaris as a calculated move, and regretting it now are not mutually exclusive. It wasn't like he said that they really wanted to but didn't or something.

Hopefully ODN's lesson can be learned by more alliances in this game; infra comes and goes and can be forget... but ditching your friends in a time of need will cast a dark cloud over your head that everyone will notice and remember. It's simply not worth it.

Exactly, it was a decision driven by one man not a whole communtiy, however it is the community that is paying the price. Rest assured some harsh lessons have been learnt since that dark day last August and ODN will certainly not be making the same errors ever again!! never again will one man wield so much power in our community.

Absolutely. Cata is hands down one of the most sincere players I have met in CN. I also consider him to be in the top 99% of all ODN members, mainly because of his courage and dedication in the GATO-1v war. The mans word is good.

Thx dude

Edited June 19, 2009 by Cataduanes

[zzzptm]

The biggest alliance mess up?

The worst OOC mess up was TPF (and The Continuum and allies by association) labeling everyone in NoV and their allies as Nazis. That was seriously, seriously messed up. They were already going to get rolled ingame, there was no reason to bring in the OOC stuff at all. LUA stood by NoV because of treaty commitments and got trolled to hell for that. That was absolutely disgusting, and was a product of the "we're the biggest bloc, so everything we do is right" mentality that dominated the game for the last two years. To think that ingame is one thing, but to use it to justify actions with real-world repercussions is horrific.

Now, for the worst ingame messup...

NPO's decision roll FAN and then to let NoV get rolled. True, FAN was a loose cannon... but attacking it over factories? NoV had been loyal to NPO and got hung out to dry. Those wars sent a signal that NPO was going to devour its young, either directly as in the case of FAN or by proxy as in the case of NoV. NPO's attack on FAN was a shock, and NoV's fall showed this was a pattern of behavior. After BLEU went down, rumors flew that Citadel or Superfriends would be next - the hits on FAN and NoV left no doubt that NPO was bent on that course of action.