Announcement from VE, AZTEC, ARES, and MCXA

[Gopherbashi]

Government and candidates-for-gov in MCXA have been calling for the removal of MCXA rfom NPO-axis treaties for months. They've all been demoted or expelled. Guess why?

Yes, some members were calling for our removal from those treaties. Is it true that members of the General Assembly asked for an expulsion trial to commence - ones which were not completed before they left the alliance of their own accord. I was not personally in favour of expulsion; a view likewise held by some other government members which I discussed the matter with. I am not going to say that every government member was against expulsion, but I personally doubt that it would have achieved the 2/3 majority that would be required for forcible removal.

You personally lowered the state of readiness and removed the ability of the office that issued the level increase to increase readiness level in the future!

I personally created that state of alertness at the end of March, and set it to a baseline level which many believed was too low and criticized me for. There was no office in charge of changing that alert level - that power was vested in the unilateral decision of any Chancellor or the Minister of Defense after the system was created. It was agreed to set this level at Blue (the second-lowest level on a scale of five) on April 5th, and raised to Orange (the second-highest level) on April 17th. I don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's way off on this topic.

[nc1701]

I'm sorry but I and the rest of the Multicolored Government was to busy attending to INTERNAL matters, much of which we haven't been able to overcome since the forming of the TSO. Excuse me for not being as politically involved as I should be, and excuse me for hoping to avoid a war. Sure tensions have been building up for months..most notably when VE canceled on NPO/GGA. But I once again reiterate, I was way more focused on MCXA's Internal Issues than worrying about External affairs which could always wait.

And I disagree, War is rarely inevitable, unless your the US and you crave OIL.

Just a quick fact here, but you knew what was going on... A good 2-3 weeks before the war started myself and Fran dragged you into my channel and explained the state of Bob and predicted that a war was coming, and furthermore told you that we needed to distance ourselves from NPO immediately. You responded to us by telling us how much NPO had done and how good friends they were... I still have the log of that too I'm not log dumping the forum, but I'll PM it to you if you need your memory jogged.

I'm the master of spin, or at least I have been called that by my worst enemies, so I assume it must be true... Here's my advice on the MCXA's future spin campaign, say you were honorable and stood with NPO in their worst hour, you honor treaties and you always fight for your friends even when they do stupid crap. Spin that for all it's worth and you might save MCXA's image, but hey what do I know?

[Dochartaigh]

Seriously people, just let us pay our debt and move on. These are rather simple terms, they will be completed shortly. If you think they should have been greater, you should be taking it up with the alliances who gave the terms or coming at us yourselves now. I assure you we paid well on the battle field already. If you think they are too much, too bad.. we agreed plain and simple. This is what is imposed upon us and I am sure we will follow through fairly easily.

Thank you all for a good clean fight, I hope we can move on from this and have better relations in the future. I have a popcorn machine running nonstop as we watch the rest of the war unfold, just keep it in the bowls please. I hate vacuuming.

hehe. if necessary i will vacuum. i have to at my place as i am a slob. also, do you have cheddar salt for the popcorn?

[ChairmanHal]

Had MCXA followed suit and ceased to support the group that has now again brought the world to war through senseless aggression, then they would have no bills due in my book. As they remained in place, directly propping up the parties that instigated this war, I see no reason for them to get off free.

MCXA had as much to do with the start of this war as the fern I keep in my living room window. What you are saying is that they deserved to be punished for hanging around with a bad crowd.

Look, the terms are what they are and MCXA signed them, so we debate the various lines in the treaty and what they mean, but please, both sides in this war have their share of hawks, people who were salivating at the chance to push the war button for all manner of reasons long before NPO got stupid. MCXA it would seem was not one of them.

Edited May 7, 2009 by ChairmanHal

[King Srqt]

You're talking about actions that are ancient history. Talk about this war right now, where any alliance tightly aligned with NPO was harshly criticized when attempting to sever ties, then they are blamed for the perceived sins of NPO, which incidentally, were not very different from the sins committed by many alliances that are now a part of Karma. Their sins were perhaps to a lesser extent, in terms of viceroys, harsh terms, etc, but only because these alliances lacked the power at the time.

NV is included in the above statement. I guess you'll be offering reps to NADC and a few other alliances, right? Maybe Polaris will assist you.

The actions you are citing are being used as comparison not as a cause for the reps there is a large difference and when you look at that simple fact your argument falls apart.

[RandomInterrupt]

Well, to be fair, Polaris seemed in favor of the new MCXA government while condemning NSO.

I so missed this. Why Polar be hatin' on a Sith?

weak terms are weak

I know! So much room for improvement. Just a heads up for all who are present today. Next time the MCXA surrenders I am available for surrender term consultation.

[Duke of Cool]

Seriously people, just let us pay our debt and move on. These are rather simple terms, they will be completed shortly. If you think they should have been greater, you should be taking it up with the alliances who gave the terms or coming at us yourselves now. I assure you we paid well on the battle field already. If you think they are too much, too bad.. we agreed plain and simple. This is what is imposed upon us and I am sure we will follow through fairly easily.

Thank you all for a good clean fight, I hope we can move on from this and have better relations in the future. I have a popcorn machine running nonstop as we watch the rest of the war unfold, just keep it in the bowls please. I hate vacuuming.

This, this, and this again. Well said.

This instrument of surrender was not set forward to cripple an alliance forever. Why judge fairness when the parties involved are accepting of the terms? I know that my alliance did not set out to destroy the alliance that we fought. Our alliances were too far down the treaty chain to really have a large stake in the current struggle. Our troops and equipment matched up with their troops and equipment, and we see what happens. The battlefield decided the course, and that's that.

And now we move on.

[Dochartaigh]

Partially incorrect. When NATO surrendered, all the NATO members that were in the Karma POW camp were allowed to return to NATO.

is it really that big of a deal that the MCXA members who surrendered have to wait until the end of the war? they are not forever banned as has been called for by those you alliance joined this war to defend.

[bzelger]

MCXA had as much to do with the start of this war as the fern I keep in my living room window. What you are saying is that they deserved to be punished for hanging around with a bad crowd.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Well done!

They've been the hulking toady helping the main bully push other people on the block around. They're part of the reason that the NPO felt so confident in declaring war without reason. They had their chance to walk away but they didn't take it, hence we're here.

Edited May 7, 2009 by bzelger

[shahenshah]

The actions you are citing are being used as comparison not as a cause for the reps there is a large difference and when you look at that simple fact your argument falls apart.

Problem is those actions are not only common to Hegemony alliances, they can be cited the other way round too for comparison. I for one have no problem with both sides citing them for their own agendas, I am sure such is the case on other side.

[bzelger]

I so missed this. Why Polar be hatin' on a Sith?

I think he means TSO.

[x Tela x]

The actions you are citing are being used as comparison not as a cause for the reps there is a large difference and when you look at that simple fact your argument falls apart.

Then what is the cause of the reps? The damage that MCXA inflicted? Why all the white peaces before? Did those alliances not inflict any damage?

You can't have it both ways. You go on about honor and how those who honored a treaty received white peace (with a couple notable exceptions, until this point), then you hand out reps to an alliance that was closer to NPO than any that have surrendered thus far, many citing the past actions of Q/1V/NPO as examples of why MCXA should pay.

If MCXA is not paying for their past actions, then these reparations are simply blood money - a practice that Karma was intending to put a stop to, or so we were told. The reps have no basis, aside from "You were close with NPO, and we want to stomp on NPO."

[shahenshah]

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Well done!

They've been the hulking toady helping the main bully push other people on the block around. They're part of the reason that the NPO felt so confident in declaring war without reason. They had their chance to walk away, but they didn't take it, hence we're here.

Yea otherwise your side would troll them to hell right. damn, Coward Coalition returned to fight. I'm actually bit saddened by the lack of use of this term...good or bad, it had its lulz value.

Edited May 7, 2009 by shahenshah

[Vol Navy]

Lot's of interesting things have came out in this thread.

Several admissions from Karma side alliances that they were indeed actively plotting this war for months as everyone knew but many denied in the intial day or two of the war.

The fact that the alliances and gov members who got tons of reps in the last war vs Polar are actually members of Karma and left Q as late as the days leading up to the war but are completely absolved of all wrongdoing because they abandoned certain treaties, ignored others and fought against NPO at that last minute.

Of course in reality we all knew that to begin with.

It's why I don't blame Polar for trying to stay neutral in this, they were beatdown by the main players on both sides in the conflict, really even more so by several on the Karma side.

Good luck with the future to MCXA, you had a ton of stuff dropping in your lap in the last few weeks. Complete Govt upheaval followed by this major war.

The reps aren't that bad at all. I've lost 2000 in the war myself. So 10000 for a major alliance is a blip on the radar and is very minor compared to the total damage already done to the nations of MCXA by the war itself.

[bzelger]

Yea otherwise your side would troll them to hell right. damn, Coward Coalition returned to fight. I'm actually bit saddened by the lack of use of this term...good or bad, it had its lulz value.

I'm afraid that I'm not sure I follow your prose, but if I'm reading it correctly, by "they had their chance to walk away" refers to a time period well before the impetus to the this debacle. By the time of the mass treaty cancellation it was too late.

[King Srqt]

Then what is the cause of the reps? The damage that MCXA inflicted? Why all the white peaces before? Did those alliances not inflict any damage?

You can't have it both ways. You go on about honor and how those who honored a treaty received white peace (with a couple notable exceptions, until this point), then you hand out reps to an alliance that was closer to NPO than any that have surrendered thus far, many citing the past actions of Q/1V/NPO as examples of why MCXA should pay.

If MCXA is not paying for their past actions, then these reparations are simply blood money - a practice that Karma was intending to put a stop to, or so we were told. The reps have no basis, aside from "You were close with NPO, and we want to stomp on NPO."

I didn't write the reps, maybe it is because MCXA came in to support what was an aggressive war by NPO as opposed to a convoluted line of treaties that are so far removed from the origin of the war.

[RossGarner]

fairly certain that the alliances MCXA surrendered too are considered the protectors of MCXA as that is a typical term given in surrendered terms.

MCXA is out of the war and their treaties are suspended. they may be defenseless but certain that very few people would actually hit them and those that do will be hit by NV/Aztec/other alliances MCXA surrendered too. And as their treaties are only suspended, the treaties are still there. so your isolated bit is full bs.

The instrument of surrender stipulates no such protection or defense by their former attackers. It was probably implied, but it simply, is not there. Other terms like term eight are imprecise, and badly worded.

Edited May 7, 2009 by RossGarner

[Tygaland]

Lot's of interesting things have came out in this thread.

Several admissions from Karma side alliances that they were indeed actively plotting this war for months as everyone knew but many denied in the intial day or two of the war.

Evidence? Knowing a war is coming and plotting one are quite different things before you go looking. Also, how did Karma plot a war started by the NPO and TORN?

The fact that the alliances and gov members who got tons of reps in the last war vs Polar are actually members of Karma and left Q as late as the days leading up to the war but are completely absolved of all wrongdoing because they abandoned certain treaties, ignored others and fought against NPO at that last minute.

Again, evidence of alliance you mention being absolved. Are you claiming that alliances fighting under the Karma banner should be asked to pay reps to those they took them from last war?

Of course in reality we all knew that to begin with.

No, you are just making things up and passing them off as fact.

[Neuromancer7]

Nice to see peace getting a chance.

I guess this is what's left when we run out of white peace on planet bob.

[AirMe]

Lot's of interesting things have came out in this thread.

Several admissions from Karma side alliances that they were indeed actively plotting this war for months as everyone knew but many denied in the intial day or two of the war.

Preparation does not equal plotting. You can never be too prepared. I personally know that MK was prepared but there was no plotting going on.

EDIT: Good to see you back RossGarner.

Edited May 7, 2009 by AirMe

[RossGarner]

Preparation does not equal plotting. You can never be too prepared. I personally know that MK was prepared but there was no plotting going on.

EDIT: Good to see you back RossGarner.

[OOC] Couldn't resist a good war, wish I still had a nation that could have made a difference in fighting it. [/ooc]

[Nintenderek]

Then what is the cause of the reps? The damage that MCXA inflicted? Why all the white peaces before? Did those alliances not inflict any damage?

You can't have it both ways. You go on about honor and how those who honored a treaty received white peace (with a couple notable exceptions, until this point), then you hand out reps to an alliance that was closer to NPO than any that have surrendered thus far, many citing the past actions of Q/1V/NPO as examples of why MCXA should pay.

If MCXA is not paying for their past actions, then these reparations are simply blood money - a practice that Karma was intending to put a stop to, or so we were told. The reps have no basis, aside from "You were close with NPO, and we want to stomp on NPO."

I find it highly amusing that you of all people are defending MCXA. Don't think I haven't forgotten about your nation bio from when you "quit"

[Duke of Cool]

The instrument of surrender stipulates no such protection or defense by their former attackers. It was probably implied, but it simply, is not there. Other terms like term eight are imprecise, and badly worded.

The spirit of the deal, however, is present. This will not be misunderstood.

[x Tela x]

I didn't write the reps, maybe it is because MCXA came in to support what was an aggressive war by NPO as opposed to a convoluted line of treaties that are so far removed from the origin of the war.

I'd hardly call a rash declaration by TORN & NPO followed by a laughable karmic intervention, which was interrupted by a karmic war declaration by those who seemed to be afraid that NPO may get out of the war for which they had been waiting on for months anything but a defensive measure on MCXA's part. You wouldn't stand by while an ally was declared on, and you damn well know it, Square Root. Why would MCXA be expected to? (And criticized very harshly when it was perceived that was exactly what they were doing)

Sure, they were directly tied to NPO, something many on the Hegemony side could not claim, but using that against them is silly, considering a large portion of the Karma side's NS stems from alliances that were only recently allied to NPO themselves.

OOC Edit:

SegaGenesis: I had a bunch of bios when I quit. Most of them were randomly calling out lies and misplaced facts about previous wars.

Ross: Hello there.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Lady Gaga

[AirMe]

[OOC] Couldn't resist a good war, wish I still had a nation that could have made a difference in fighting it. [/ooc]

And another note on preparation, MK, as an alliance, starts preparing for the next war when the current one ends. I suspect that alliances like Molon Labe, Valhalla, TORN and others who take pride in their military approach things that way as well.

And again I say, preparation is hardly plotting.