Announcement from VE, AZTEC, ARES, and MCXA

[AirMe]

I'd hardly call a rash declaration by TORN & NPO followed by a laughable karmic intervention, which was interrupted by a karmic war declaration by those who seemed to be afraid that NPO may get out of the war for which they had been waiting on for months anything but a defensive measure on MCXA's part. You wouldn't stand by while an ally was declared on, and you damn well know it, Square Root. Why would MCXA be expected to? (And criticized very harshly when it was perceived that was exactly what they were doing)

Sure, they were directly tied to NPO, something many on the Hegemony side could not claim, but using that against them is silly, considering a large portion of the Karma side's NS stems from alliances that were only recently allied to NPO themselves.

OOC Edit:

SegaGenesis: I had a bunch of bios when I quit. Most of them were randomly calling out lies and misplaced facts about previous wars.

Ross: Hello there.

Here is one thing that you fail to admit. EVERYONE, on BOTH sides wanted this war.

And no alliance has ever been able to back off and say "my bad" after less than an hour of war and get away with. I understand what you are trying to preach, but you are failing miserably at it.

[x Tela x]

And another note on preparation, MK, as an alliance, starts preparing for the next war when the current one ends. I suspect that alliances like Molon Labe, Valhalla, TORN and others who take pride in their military approach things that way as well.

And again I say, preparation is hardly plotting.

I find that hard to believe.

Considering: 3/15/2009 1:29:23 AM (52 days old) <-- That's me.

I was reborn when I became convinced that NPO was getting hit hard. How? Spies? Nope. Reading the OWF. That's it. It ain't that hard. You people were so damn obvious.

[Tygaland]

I find that hard to believe.

Considering: 3/15/2009 1:29:23 AM (52 days old) <-- That's me.

I was reborn when I became convinced that NPO was getting hit hard. How? Spies? Nope. Reading the OWF. That's it. It ain't that hard. You people were so damn obvious.

What does what you said have to do with anything AirMe said?

[AirMe]

I find that hard to believe.

Considering: 3/15/2009 1:29:23 AM (52 days old) <-- That's me.

I was reborn when I became convinced that NPO was getting hit hard. How? Spies? Nope. Reading the OWF. That's it. It ain't that hard. You people were so damn obvious.

Everyone felt the war coming, rumors were swirling every where for months. Also we weren't released from surrender terms from the last war until about 2 months ago and after that it takes at least 1 month to get back militarily to where we felt we could adequately fight. So your time table is off. But yes the writing was on the wall for a LONG TIME. Instead of throwing around accusations why don't you start spitting out some facts and evidence instead of just the vitriolic feces you are spewing now.

[dvdcchn]

I didn't write the reps, maybe it is because MCXA came in to support what was an aggressive war by NPO as opposed to a convoluted line of treaties that are so far removed from the origin of the war.

seriously, this comming from Karma? you say we supported a war of agression by, how just being there? we honored our treaty and stood by an ally. if you havented caught on yet, we didnt have much say in this, yet we are here. how are you any different? Karma wanted this war from day one, and you are just as much Archon's lacky, as we may be of NPO. Regardless well fought MCXA, and to all combantents.

o/ MCXA

[Il Impero Romano]

Then what is the cause of the reps? The damage that MCXA inflicted? Why all the white peaces before? Did those alliances not inflict any damage?

You can't have it both ways. You go on about honor and how those who honored a treaty received white peace (with a couple notable exceptions, until this point), then you hand out reps to an alliance that was closer to NPO than any that have surrendered thus far, many citing the past actions of Q/1V/NPO as examples of why MCXA should pay.

If MCXA is not paying for their past actions, then these reparations are simply blood money - a practice that Karma was intending to put a stop to, or so we were told. The reps have no basis, aside from "You were close with NPO, and we want to stomp on NPO."

The terms are reflective of this war and this war only. Any other meaning people wish to see in them is a reflection of their personal feelings, and not the undersigned alliances as a whole.

However, if you perhaps feel concerned for your own alliances fate because you think you may have been dishonorable, dishonest, opportunistic, and acted as though you would do anything to get ahead in the past, I suggest you make your own thread because this is not the place and I severely doubt MCXA appreciates your transparent remarks.

[deth2munkies]

I find that hard to believe.

Considering: 3/15/2009 1:29:23 AM (52 days old) <-- That's me.

I was reborn when I became convinced that NPO was getting hit hard. How? Spies? Nope. Reading the OWF. That's it. It ain't that hard. You people were so damn obvious.

It wasn't active planning so much as a trend and fallout from the last war. There were NPO allies unhappy about the way the last war and some of their foreign policy decisions were handled since then and that caused a rift that became even more apparent in the weeks leading up to this war.

[Schattenmann]

i think it's mildly amusing that you think people on the same side of a conflict can't have differences of opinions.

The concept of "opinions" is alien to most of the people you're speaking to.

You don't know me and i certainly don't know you. I know you know nothing that you speak of, so stop making stupid and completely unfounded conjectures. If you know so much please post some kind of proof to back up your statements. I know how good the VoX spy ring is these days.

My boy, Vox and MCXA ar eno longer at war due to the benevolence and foresight of the alliances you surrendered to, posting intel would be an act of war.

Maybe that is because we just ignore VoX completely? As MoFA you guys are my lowest of low priorities.

Said the MoFA who was under fire for being ignorant of world affairs. Thanks for proving my point, man. Perhaps MCXA has been at the mercy of Vox for some time because it's government was the only government buying into the NPO "Vox is not a threat" line.

Also, we had no idea war was coming for to a huge split in government, total inner alliance chaos, having our forums hacked and totally destroyed for 2 weeks and having to rebuild. Then me no longer being MoFA and serving elsewhere in the alliance to then have our former MoFA being booted and having to step up to the plate to take over the mess that was left behind? *Cough* *Cough* But your right, its my fault i didn't see the war coming.

You had no idea that war was coming because you refused to believe that war was coming.

I assure you we paid well on the battle field already.

And as such you've received lenient terms. Take note, you who cow in peace mode.

You're talking about actions that are ancient history. Talk about this war right now, where any alliance tightly aligned with NPO was harshly criticized when attempting to sever ties, then they are blamed for the perceived sins of NPO, which incidentally, were not very different from the sins committed by many alliances that are now a part of Karma. Their sins were perhaps to a lesser extent, in terms of viceroys, harsh terms, etc, but only because these alliances lacked the power at the time.

NV is included in the above statement. I guess you'll be offering reps to NADC and a few other alliances, right? Maybe Polaris will assist you.

NV and Polaris paid their due in the Coalition War. Your argument is empty, it's going nowhere, bow out while you can.

I personally created that state of alertness at the end of March, and set it to a baseline level which many believed was too low and criticized me for. There was no office in charge of changing that alert level - that power was vested in the unilateral decision of any Chancellor or the Minister of Defense after the system was created. It was agreed to set this level at Blue (the second-lowest level on a scale of five) on April 5th, and raised to Orange (the second-highest level) on April 17th. I don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's way off on this topic.

Thank you for confirmig what I said. The Deputy MoFA raised the alert level because she knew more about the world than the MoFA, you lowered it and removed her ability to raise it again, then you raised it yourself. Or to put it in a nice, compact flip-flop statement: "You raised the alert level after you lowered it."

[Tygaland]

seriously, this comming from Karma? you say we supported a war of agression by, how just being there? we honored our treaty and stood by an ally. if you havented caught on yet, we didnt have much say in this, yet we are here. how are you any different? Karma wanted this war from day one, and you are just as much Archon's lacky, as we may be of NPO. Regardless well fought MCXA, and to all combantents.

o/ MCXA

Ah, so you guys just allied NPO a few weeks ago, right?

[King Srqt]

I'd hardly call a rash declaration by TORN & NPO followed by a laughable karmic intervention, which was interrupted by a karmic war declaration by those who seemed to be afraid that NPO may get out of the war for which they had been waiting on for months anything but a defensive measure on MCXA's part. You wouldn't stand by while an ally was declared on, and you damn well know it, Square Root. Why would MCXA be expected to? (And criticized very harshly when it was perceived that was exactly what they were doing)

Sure, they were directly tied to NPO, something many on the Hegemony side could not claim, but using that against them is silly, considering a large portion of the Karma side's NS stems from alliances that were only recently allied to NPO themselves.

OOC Edit:

SegaGenesis: I had a bunch of bios when I quit. Most of them were randomly calling out lies and misplaced facts about previous wars.

Ross: Hello there.

The thing is VE was clearly in a defensive war and they got hit for it, that is why I feel reps are justified in this. NPO went in on an aggressive war and VE came in as they needed to in defense and were declared on for it. I think terms of this weight are very fair. If they were much heavier I would probably agree that they were unjust but s they stand I think they are very fair considering everything.

I think MCXA did what it had to do and I rspect them for it and am glad they got light reps and if it was my call they may have even gotten white peace but I can see where reps are justified and the amount for reps and length of terms are both very fair.

[AirMe]

seriously, this comming from Karma? you say we supported a war of agression by, how just being there? we honored our treaty and stood by an ally. if you havented caught on yet, we didnt have much say in this, yet we are here. how are you any different? Karma wanted this war from day one, and you are just as much Archon's lacky, as we may be of NPO. Regardless well fought MCXA, and to all combantents.

o/ MCXA

Before you insult my leader again you swine, you might want to re-examine your alliance's posture and actions of the last year and a half. Archon was actually asked to be involved in the negotiations that kicked this war off by Moo and BigWoody. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it before you spew more crap in Archon's direction.

[Nizzle]

seriously, this comming from Karma? you say we supported a war of agression by, how just being there? we honored our treaty and stood by an ally. if you havented caught on yet, we didnt have much say in this, yet we are here. how are you any different? Karma wanted this war from day one, and you are just as much Archon's lacky, as we may be of NPO. Regardless well fought MCXA, and to all combantents.

o/ MCXA

I'm sorry, but is history being rewritten wherein Moo actually had clones of himself leading every alliance in Q and One Vision?

[Nelchael]

You're talking about actions that are ancient history. Talk about this war right now, where any alliance tightly aligned with NPO was harshly criticized when attempting to sever ties, then they are blamed for the perceived sins of NPO, which incidentally, were not very different from the sins committed by many alliances that are now a part of Karma. Their sins were perhaps to a lesser extent, in terms of viceroys, harsh terms, etc, but only because these alliances lacked the power at the time.

NV is included in the above statement. I guess you'll be offering reps to NADC and a few other alliances, right? Maybe Polaris will assist you.

I didn't write the reps, maybe it is because MCXA came in to support what was an aggressive war by NPO as opposed to a convoluted line of treaties that are so far removed from the origin of the war.

Fortunately, KingSrqt is more eloquent than I. As for intent, I can't speak for any other person's signature on those terms, but that was my reasoning for the reps. Sorry if I confused you with my previous statement, but what I was trying to disprove was the notion that alliances are "merely honoring their treaties" and hence have no guilt for their actions. MCXA assisted NPO in an unjust war, founded on a bogus CB, launched without formal declaration while peace negotiations were ongoing. In any sane world, this demands some form of reparations.

The fact that these reparations are extremely lenient, totaling 5% of MCXA's tech, and structured in a way that will not hinder their rebuilding at all... I'd say that lends credence to the notion that Karma has the moral high ground. If anything, it'll serve as a good exercise to rebuild intra-alliance coordination after their recent purges/exodus/loss.

Further, to everyone criticizing that our terms aren't worded clearly enough, I will pass your complaints to our legal team. I think the intent was still pretty clear in these terms, and with that, I strongly recommend all parties against attempting to violate the intent of these terms.

[Vol Navy]

Evidence? Knowing a war is coming and plotting one are quite different things before you go looking. Also, how did Karma plot a war started by the NPO and TORN?

Again, evidence of alliance you mention being absolved. Are you claiming that alliances fighting under the Karma banner should be asked to pay reps to those they took them from last war?

No, you are just making things up and passing them off as fact.

Heh heh wow, several members of Karma side alliances in this very thread castigated MCXA for not wising up and abandoning NPO weeks ago because this beatdown of the NPO and Q had been in the works for months. My argument has been all along that this war was coming no matter what kicked it off. NPO/Q was going to have to take it's turn on the beatdown bus. At least those that didn't jump ship from Q at the last second.

And yes, I happen to find it funny that MCXA is ripped for taking reps from Polar but the alliance formed by the former gov of MCXA that left and fights alongside Karma, FOK, TOP, Gram, RnR and several other Karma side alliances negotiated those horrible reps and reaped the benifits from them.

I just am glad to finally see things coming to light, finally see things coming out to confirm that Karma side alliances have big ol warts themselves. That for a long time many were active participants in the ebil acts that have brought about the current downfall of NPO/Q.

I just don't see how Karma side alliances who feel they were truly wronged by those actions can sit back and welcome their former oppressors with open arms a week or two after they left Q or cancelled treaties with NPO.

[neneko]

seriously, this comming from Karma? you say we supported a war of agression by, how just being there? we honored our treaty and stood by an ally. if you havented caught on yet, we didnt have much say in this, yet we are here. how are you any different? Karma wanted this war from day one, and you are just as much Archon's lacky, as we may be of NPO. Regardless well fought MCXA, and to all combantents.

o/ MCXA

You supported NPOs aggression by signing a MADP with them. It's not like this was the first unwaranted agression on their part.

also ARCHONISM o/

[x Tela x]

Fair enough, Impero, Nelchael and Square Root (I know you love that pet name). I saw a lot of posts alluding to past actions of Q/1V, but if you say they're based on THIS war, that's enough for me.

Airme, I'd still dispute your claim that "everyone" wanted this war. I'll admit that probably some on the Hegemony side wanted a piece of action, but I think that most would have preferred it to start in a manner more befitting a global war. (UJW had a !@#$@#$ lame start also. Oh noes, a protectorate! Hey, we're gonna ZI this guy... NO U!)

We need some better reasons for future global wars. Come on, roleplay, damnit!

Also, Impero, my alliance is someone else's \m/ember ID, so I don't feel any particular obligation to MegaAros' ID.

[AirMe]

Fair enough, Impero, Nelchael and Square Root (I know you love that pet name). I saw a lot of posts alluding to past actions of Q/1V, but if you say they're based on THIS war, that's enough for me.

Airme, I'd still dispute your claim that "everyone" wanted this war. I'll admit that probably some on the Hegemony side wanted a piece of action, but I think that most would have preferred it to start in a manner more befitting a global war. (UJW had a !@#$@#$ lame start also. Oh noes, a protectorate! Hey, we're gonna ZI this guy... NO U!)

We need some better reasons for future global wars. Come on, roleplay, damnit!

Also, Impero, my alliance is someone else's \m/ember ID, so I don't feel any particular obligation to MegaAros' ID.

Global wars on this world always start over lame $@! reasons.

[bzelger]

Heh heh wow, several members of Karma side alliances in this very thread castigated MCXA for not wising up and abandoning NPO weeks ago because this beatdown of the NPO and Q had been in the works for months. My argument has been all along that this war was coming no matter what kicked it off. NPO/Q was going to have to take it's turn on the beatdown bus. At least those that didn't jump ship from Q at the last second.

And yes, I happen to find it funny that MCXA is ripped for taking reps from Polar but the alliance formed by the former gov of MCXA that left and fights alongside Karma, FOK, TOP, Gram, RnR and several other Karma side alliances negotiated those horrible reps and reaped the benifits from them.

I just am glad to finally see things coming to light, finally see things coming out to confirm that Karma side alliances have big ol warts themselves. That for a long time many were active participants in the ebil acts that have brought about the current downfall of NPO/Q.

I just don't see how Karma side alliances who feel they were truly wronged by those actions can sit back and welcome their former oppressors with open arms a week or two after they left Q or cancelled treaties with NPO.

I'll chip in a few bucks for the new pair of reading glasses you're overdue for.

[enderland]

We need some better reasons for future global wars. Come on, roleplay, damnit!

You don't think "Karma" has anything to do with RP?

[Schattenmann]

I just am glad to finally see things coming to light, finally see things coming out to confirm that Karma side alliances have big ol warts themselves. That for a long time many were active participants in the ebil acts that have brought about the current downfall of NPO/Q.

One more defeated alliance member defining Karma on behalf of Karma. Karma as the white-knight saviors of the planet is a smarmy theme attached to Karma by your side, not a mantle assumed by Karma. You can't use it both ways.

Frankly, you're bad at this. People are taking time to reply to you because it's nice to have someone to unload on who's completely unaware of how silly he is.

[Ragashingo]

MCXA had as much to do with the start of this war as the fern I keep in my living room window. What you are saying is that they deserved to be punished for hanging around with a bad crowd.

They didn't just hang around and chat with the NPO. They went to war in support of them. Slight difference there.

[Schattenmann]

They didn't just hang around and chat with the NPO. They went to war in support of them. Slight difference there.

No there is not! MCXA is completely absolved from all actions in its past because the government has changed recently and they cancelled ties with former allies who perpetrated the actions that are alluded to in the colaition name "Karma."

[Jyrinx]

Aww, look everyone the Hegemony thinks it can still win the PR battle. How cute.

These aren't harsh terms and are perfectly legitimate given the circumstances. Anybody that thinks otherwise is naïve, confused, ignorant, or evil.

[King Srqt]

Square Root (I know you love that pet name).

I did miss you. I hope you stick around after the fireworks

[Ragashingo]

Aww, look everyone the Hegemony thinks it can still win the PR battle. How cute.

These aren't harsh terms and are perfectly legitimate given the circumstances. Anybody that thinks otherwise is naïve, confused, ignorant, or evil.

Haha. Nice.