This Week in Pacificontinuum

[RandomInterrupt]

Hey... Grub isn't in an incredibly difficult position...

The ones who didn't like the change of Government in Polaris have left Polaris several months ago... in 2008.

And Grub, we all like him. Specially because he's probably one of the most skilled persons in CN organizing armies or the "war" side of the game. He's amazing for the technical side of the game... but also very good as a political leader.

Whilst Sponge... he's good playing the political side of the game (if I *ignore* the shameless scandal that caused his departure from Polaris), but he's not too good organizing the most "technical" side of an Alliance. Honestly... the only "power" that Polaris had with him as an Emperor was the diplomatic relations and the fact that Polaris had a lot of members, but otherwise we weren't really an organized Alliance (except for killing ghosts... we've always been good at that under all the Emperors we've had). IMHO, he gets too involved in the RP side of the game... whilst he doesn't pay much attention to military strategies or the "maths" side of the game (except, of course, the easy "maths" like "Alliance with 400 members wins wars against Alliance with 30 members").

But, honestly, this "sponge vs. grub" stuff is bizarre... I'm quite sure that not only all the members of Polaris would find this idea quite bizarre, but also Grub and Sponge themselves.

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. You are right that the "sponge vs. grub" doesn't actually exist and is a pretty weird concept, but to say that "the only "power" that Polaris had with him as an Emperor was the diplomatic relations and the fact that Polaris had a lot of members" is pretty ignorant. Especially considering when Sponge took over we had 80 members or so and one single treaty. The only reason we had so many allies was because we, under his leadership, formed said alliances. The only reason we had so many members was because we, under his leadership, recruited them and retained them. If Sponge really was the Emperor you seem to assume he was, there wouldn't have been a New Polar Order beyond 2006. Instead he actually did succeed in many ways, and in return you have an alliance to call home right now.

Your argument is so amazingly flawed that it insults me to see it being issued by someone under the New Polar Order tag. I hope there are not many that share your ideas of departed leaders.

[PrototyoeRuler]

I wear my "I <3 Schattenmann" signature with pride. You always have a way of keeping things interesting. Plus I think your erotic literature is almost as good as theses post sir.

[King Neptune]

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. You are right that the "sponge vs. grub" doesn't actually exist and is a pretty weird concept, but to say that "the only "power" that Polaris had with him as an Emperor was the diplomatic relations and the fact that Polaris had a lot of members" is pretty ignorant. Especially considering when Sponge took over we had 80 members or so and one single treaty. The only reason we had so many allies was because we, under his leadership, formed said alliances. The only reason we had so many members was because we, under his leadership, recruited them and retained them. If Sponge really was the Emperor you seem to assume he was, there wouldn't have been a New Polar Order beyond 2006. Instead he actually did succeed in many ways, and in return you have an alliance to call home right now.

Your argument is so amazingly flawed that it insults me to see it being issued by someone under the New Polar Order tag. I hope there are not many that share your ideas of departed leaders.

I was going to post something long, and a little bit more harsh than this. However, as an outsider it wouldn't have the same effect, and as always Random covered all the bases.

So instead I'll just quote him and support his statement.

o/ RI. Have I told you lately that I love you?

[Azaghul]

First, as I mentioned earlier, if the spy were caught we would all know by now. You see, these aren't exactly nobody's we're dealing with here. The top dogs of the Continuum are big names. If one gets expelled and ZIed for being a Vox spy, people will notice.

Secondly, even if the spy is a double agent, what exactly would they hope to gain from Vox? I do believe you've said it yourself. Vox isn't that big or important. You can spy on them all you want, but you'll never gain anything for value. If you're going to send in a double agent, who will be giving valuable information away to your enemy to keep the agent in their trust, you at least want to make sure you're getting something in return.

Logic, my friend. Learn to use it.

Agreed. I don't know how Vox's forums are organized or spies handled, but I would be surprised if simply being a spy in another alliance gave a Vox member extra information that a regular spy in Vox couldn't get. A double agent could only really be useful if they could out other spies.

[KingSuck]

Definitely the best issue yet Schattenmann. As I believe OneBallMan stated though, your leaps in logic are bizarre to say the very least.

Only one thing really 'bothers' me about the whole Q leak from the Vox perspective; is the NPO stepping in on the Val/Sparta drama really the best thing you guys can find? I'm not saying it's irrelevant or anything, just think that there must be a lot juicier topics hidden in the sanctum somewhere.

On another note, it's interesting to see Electron Sponge belittling diplomacy as a tool of the weak. However wasn't his regime infamous for the 'hey wanna MDP' route? At the same time wasn't diplomacy the major reason he was able to defeat the UJP so conclusively?

Nice to meet you quite serious, I am the Reverend Doctor Electron Sponge. (sorry I couldn't resist)

^ oh and that made me lol pretty hard

[zoskia]

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. You are right that the "sponge vs. grub" doesn't actually exist and is a pretty weird concept, but to say that "the only "power" that Polaris had with him as an Emperor was the diplomatic relations and the fact that Polaris had a lot of members" is pretty ignorant. Especially considering when Sponge took over we had 80 members or so and one single treaty. The only reason we had so many allies was because we, under his leadership, formed said alliances. The only reason we had so many members was because we, under his leadership, recruited them and retained them. If Sponge really was the Emperor you seem to assume he was, there wouldn't have been a New Polar Order beyond 2006. Instead he actually did succeed in many ways, and in return you have an alliance to call home right now.

Your argument is so amazingly flawed that it insults me to see it being issued by someone under the New Polar Order tag. I hope there are not many that share your ideas of departed leaders.

I find it weird that you think there's something insulting in my post...

Also, what I've said is very much the truth.

Sponge has a very political approach to this game, but he's not amazing as a technician nor he's amazing organizing the technical side of an Alliance (I'm not saying that he's horrible at it either, he's OK, but that's not really his best skill). I mean, I don't think ANYONE would say that Sponge is one of the best "technicians" of CN.

He's good recruiting, that's true... he's also good writing speeches... but, hey... he has never been a "technician". Indeed, under his leadership we never ever had any kind of goal in the purely technical side, such thing didn't exist at all.

Whilst Grub is really amazing on the technical side of CN... and very methodic and skilled at organizing an Alliance; both in the military and the economic side of it. And he's truly good playing the political side of CN too. And I would dare to say that he's probably one of the best "technicians" of CN.

Anyway... What's so insulting about this stuff? I have no idea...

[Comrade Mao]

Another interesting issue of TWiP.

[Newhotness]

I think this has been the best installment of TWiP so far. Keep it up

[Grand Emperor Brian]

Good read. Entertaining, as always.

I find it weird that you think there's something insulting in my post...

Also, what I've said is very much the truth.

Sponge has a very political approach to this game, but he's not amazing as a technician nor he's amazing organizing the technical side of an Alliance (I'm not saying that he's horrible at it either, he's OK, but that's not really his best skill). I mean, I don't think ANYONE would say that Sponge is one of the best "technicians" of CN.

He's good recruiting, that's true... he's also good writing speeches... but, hey... he has never been a "technician". Indeed, under his leadership we never ever had any kind of goal in the purely technical side, such thing didn't exist at all.

Whilst Grub is really amazing on the technical side of CN... and very methodic and skilled at organizing an Alliance; both in the military and the economic side of it. And he's truly good playing the political side of CN too. And I would dare to say that he's probably one of the best "technicians" of CN.

Anyway... What's so insulting about this stuff? I have no idea...

Seriously? I'm not in Polar nor have I ever been, but even I can see how insulting your post was.

[Electron Sponge]

I find it weird that you think there's something insulting in my post...

Also, what I've said is very much the truth.

Sponge has a very political approach to this game, but he's not amazing as a technician nor he's amazing organizing the technical side of an Alliance (I'm not saying that he's horrible at it either, he's OK, but that's not really his best skill). I mean, I don't think ANYONE would say that Sponge is one of the best "technicians" of CN.

He's good recruiting, that's true... he's also good writing speeches... but, hey... he has never been a "technician". Indeed, under his leadership we never ever had any kind of goal in the purely technical side, such thing didn't exist at all.

Whilst Grub is really amazing on the technical side of CN... and very methodic and skilled at organizing an Alliance; both in the military and the economic side of it. And he's truly good playing the political side of CN too. And I would dare to say that he's probably one of the best "technicians" of CN.

Anyway... What's so insulting about this stuff? I have no idea...

I didn't take offense to what you said, although I do thank Random for speaking up for me. I'll never claim to be a technocrat. I freely admit that when it comes to fighting wars and managing a nation you're better off looking for your advice somewhere else. In fact I'd say my best asset as a leader is that I know what I don't know, and who does know. It's no accident that Grub was fast tracked up the chain of command, just as it is no accident that RandomInterrupt, Slashes-With-Claws, Griswalds, Jphillips412, Penguin, Myworld, Fupresti, Hannah, and a myriad of others just as deserving whose names aren't popping into my head rose to positions of power on my watch. It is not the job of a leader to know every little detail that goes on in every aspect of the alliance. It is the job of a leader to put the best, most capable people in positions where they can do the most good and then to provide those people with an overall vision of what you want to accomplish. I will say that those who worked with me behind closed doors will have a different idea of what my strengths and weaknesses are from someone who dealt with me only in the Body Republic. That particular skill set is one that makes me rather valuable to my current alliance. Oh and regarding the "scandal" you brought up earlier, it's only a scandal for people like you who were dying for us to get back to our subservient relationship with NPO. Reasonable, clear headed people can see it for what it was.

Back on topic, it will be very difficult for those people sent by the Continuum and others to spy on us to get any sort of information regarding our intelligence gathering activities. We have several safeguards in place to ensure that that doesn't happen.

[The AUT]

I will just go out and say it.

Ivan created arguably the greatest alliance in history, but Moo's diplomacy is far superior. End of story. Sorry, just how I feel.

Ivan's diplomacy was based off of tension in the hope of creating drama and a funner game for everyone.

Good read, Schattenman.

[o ya baby]

I speak for the Technology Corps of the New Pacific Order when we say that we are disappointed that Vox wasn't interested in our sundry dealings this week. I suppose one of our several hundreds transactions this week wasn't enough to warrant news this week.

Stop stroking your e-peen, no one cares about how many "hundreds" of transactions an alliance of nearly a thousand nations has.

[Vilien]

Ivan's diplomacy was based off of tension in the hope of creating drama and a funner game for everyone.

Good read, Schattenman.

Ivan was just caustic, the drama and fun was a result of that. I don't think it was intentional.

[Electron Sponge]

Ivan was just caustic, the drama and fun was a result of that. I don't think it was intentional.

There were no accidents where he was concerned.

[Vilien]

There were no accidents where he was concerned.

I didn't say he was careless, I meant that the purpose of his style was not specifically to cause drama.

[cookavich]

I find it weird that you think there's something insulting in my post...

Also, what I've said is very much the truth.

Sponge has a very political approach to this game, but he's not amazing as a technician nor he's amazing organizing the technical side of an Alliance (I'm not saying that he's horrible at it either, he's OK, but that's not really his best skill). I mean, I don't think ANYONE would say that Sponge is one of the best "technicians" of CN.

He's good recruiting, that's true... he's also good writing speeches... but, hey... he has never been a "technician". Indeed, under his leadership we never ever had any kind of goal in the purely technical side, such thing didn't exist at all.

Whilst Grub is really amazing on the technical side of CN... and very methodic and skilled at organizing an Alliance; both in the military and the economic side of it. And he's truly good playing the political side of CN too. And I would dare to say that he's probably one of the best "technicians" of CN.

Anyway... What's so insulting about this stuff? I have no idea...

Respect the Sponge, Zos.

[Penguin]

On another note, it's interesting to see Electron Sponge belittling diplomacy as a tool of the weak. However wasn't his regime infamous for the 'hey wanna MDP' route? At the same time wasn't diplomacy the major reason he was able to defeat the UJP so conclusively?

I believe Ivan and Sponge were making a distinction between politics and diplomacy. Semantics aside, there is a big difference between the type of diplomacy required to protect the status quo and the type of diplomacy that Sponge used leading up to the Unjust War.

[astronaut jones]

I didn't say he was careless, I meant that the purpose of his style was not specifically to cause drama.

I think he understood you loud and clear the first time.

[Snake Solidus]

Fantastic read.

[Doitzel]

Ivan's diplomacy was based off of tension in the hope of creating drama and a funner game for everyone.

Good read, Schattenman.

Not to mention that it was under Moo's watch that the WUT and AoA fell apart, that the Moldavi "rebellion" occurred, that the OoO became as nothing, and that absolutely nothing that is keeping the NPO in its position today is the work of Moo. Emperor Revenge is a lot of things, but a skilled diplomat is not amoung them.

Then again, I distinguish between a "suck-up" and a "diplomat" so perhaps my definition of diplomacy is obsolete in the current world.

Kudos to Schattenmann, reminding the world on a weekly basis that we're the flashing lights keeping everyone awake.

edit: that, not the

Edited March 3, 2009 by Doitzel

[Reason]

Not to mention that it was under Moo's watch that the WUT and AoA fell apart, that the Moldavi "rebellion" occurred, that the OoO became as nothing, and that absolutely nothing that is keeping the NPO in its position today is the work of Moo. Emperor Revenge is a lot of things, but a skilled diplomat is not amoung them.

Then again, I distinguish between a "suck-up" and a "diplomat" so perhaps my definition of diplomacy is obsolete in the current world.

Kudos to Schattenmann, reminding the world on a weekly basis that we're the flashing lights keeping everyone awake.

edit: that, not the

I'd say diplomatic credit goes to Dilber for its planning, initiation, and success, and to Moo for its continual operation.

[Snake Solidus]

I'd say diplomatic credit goes to Dilber for its planning, initiation, and success, and to Moo for its continual operation.

Did you really just claim Dilber started the NPO here?

[Doitzel]

I'd say diplomatic credit goes to Dilber for its planning, initiation, and success, and to Moo for its continual operation.

Nonsense. Any time Dilber is given credit for anything, even a treaty that his signature is on, he denies credit and says he's inactive and absolves himself from responsibility. He then proceeds to try to paint it like we give him credit for everything. Clearly he deserves nothing, and all diplomatic success of the Order is attributable to the ever-diligent, ever-present and highly esteemed noob5 who signed that one treaty once I think.

[Heft]

In regards to my second post, I would also love to congratulate Vox for its self aggrandizement. Your argument here is basically "We spread rumors, Pacifica urges calm in the face of them, therefore we are beating Pacifica." Unfortunately it has been 6 weeks and the Spartans are still part of the Continuum. It suggests that you have been less than successful in your rumor spreading and that perhaps the zenith of the political tension which Sponge's rumor campaign can create has long since past.

Yea, the "spreading rumors and causing mistrust and doubts" tactic was starting to show some real promise, and it probably peaked at the Valhalla/Sparta incident. After that, especially since it did force Continuum leadership to come out and talk to each other very bluntly, things started to fall away and calm down. Is everything perfect and dandy? Well, probably not, no, and it wouldn't ever be perfect, but the chances of sparking a major war through all of these rumors has significantly decreased.

I would also like the put the arguement forward that some use it as a tool for survival. We were around for the days when RON was Independent. Before the polarized global hegemony collapsed we had two distinct sides; as such neutrals and independents could survive. With a single military-based power bloc in control (as was the Initiative post GW3) large independents or neutral blocs were no longer viable (see GPA and NADC/GUARD) as these groups became immedient targets and pressure was put on them. As we can see with GPA and GUARD; the global hegemony cannot stand other groups who do not necessarily oppose it but who rival it in strength. Thus, IRON had to hitch their boat to someone, to preserve their survival. I believe IRON's change in foreign affairs since GW3 was not a decision that they made out of sincerity or desire to become part of the mess of an MDP-Web, but instead a decision of necessity: to preserve their existance.

The vast majority if not all of the other large alliances who were not part of the Initiative and who remained independent of the treaty web post GW3 have been met with some sort of aggresion or pressure from the former WUT signatories over the years; RON foresaw this, and adjusted accordingly through diplomatic means.

This post probably generated some hostile responses because you insisted on using "RON" in what appears to be a serious context, which is just stupid, and can only be read as deliberately trying to draw hostile responses. That said, your analysis is at partially correct. IRON never abandoned its ideals, though. The means to achieve those ideals changed as the world changed, and so we adapted. There had been pressure within the alliance even before then to become more involved, but it wasn't until after GWIII and a few other incidents that there was enough of a consensus within the alliance to actually set a course and follow it. All Independence was about was IRON being able to do what IRON wanted to do. After GWIII it quickly became apparent that that was no longer the case, and if we wanted to return to that then we had to start getting involved and find ways to establish ourselves. Right now, IRON can do what we want to do to a much greater extent than we could have then, thus, our ideals are served.

Not to mention that it was under Moo's watch that the WUT and AoA fell apart, that the Moldavi "rebellion" occurred, that the OoO became as nothing, and that absolutely nothing that is keeping the NPO in its position today is the work of Moo. Emperor Revenge is a lot of things, but a skilled diplomat is not amoung them.

Then again, I distinguish between a "suck-up" and a "diplomat" so perhaps my definition of diplomacy is obsolete in the current world.

Kudos to Schattenmann, reminding the world on a weekly basis that we're the flashing lights keeping everyone awake.

This post certainly keeps in line with the style of TWiP, in that it expertly uses misinterpretation and selective reasoning to present a conclusion as solid while ignoring other, much more obvious conclusions. In this case, more has happened, both good and bad, in Moo's reign as Emperor because his reign has been more than four times longer than either of the previous Emperor's.

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

Schatt could do a story on my bowel movements and it would be entertaining.

What do you think the tech reports were over?