This Week in Pacificontinuum

[Electron Sponge]

Perhaps, and many despised it. Pacifica would be in a much different position if he was still leader. Oh, and I am sure you will disagree or believe Pacifica would be in a greater position, but it is an opinion-based view neither one of us will agree upon.

I don't necessarily believe NPO would be in a greater position. To be quite frank, if Ivan hadn't stepped down we'd likely have had a hard time getting the allies together to get our retribution against the CoaLUEtion. It wasn't due to a lack of capability on his part - it was due to a lack of willingness on the part of a lot of people who didn't really know Ivan to work with him. Eight months of 'divide and conquer' against the other large alliances will do that. In my previous comment I was simply making the assertion that had Ivan chose to go the diplomatic route, he'd easily be Moo's better in that department (as well as most other peoples' better, this isn't intended as a shot against Moo at all). The reason he didn't is because he realized that [ooc]this is a game and it needs conflict to be interesting. I personally took that page directly out of his playbook.[/ooc]

What is this "diplomacy" you speak of?

It is a tool used by the weak willed in order to cajole others to go along with them through incessant whining and forced politeness, of course.

[General Specific]

What is this "diplomacy" you speak of?

That entire discussion reminds me how someone might suggest that diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Also, entertaining issue of TWiP.

and ooc: Hat tip to Will Rogers

[Ejayrazz]

I don't necessarily believe NPO would be in a greater position. To be quite frank, if Ivan hadn't stepped down we'd likely have had a hard time getting the allies together to get our retribution against the CoaLUEtion. It wasn't due to a lack of capability on his part - it was due to a lack of willingness on the part of a lot of people who didn't really know Ivan to work with him. Eight months of 'divide and conquer' against the other large alliances will do that. In my previous comment I was simply making the assertion that had Ivan chose to go the diplomatic route, he'd easily be Moo's better in that department (as well as most other peoples' better, this isn't intended as a shot against Moo at all). The reason he didn't is because he realized that [ooc]this is a game and it needs conflict to be interesting. I personally took that page directly out of his playbook.[/ooc]

It is a tool used by the weak willed in order to cajole others to go along with them through incessant whining and forced politeness, of course.

Understood, glad the clarification gives me a more efficient enlightenment of your perspective. You knew Ivan more on a personal level, viewing this from a clear diplomatic perspective, understand it is difficult for me to believe Ivan could possess diplomatic characteristics too the extent Moo possesses whilst containing the 'power' he currently withholds. Ivan's lack of civility did spice things up, I do agree, but I do not believe it would have been in Pacifica's best interest.

[Imhotep]

Actually, it has been my experience that what is commonly believed to be "diplomacy" in this realm is not much more than politics. Diplomacy is the rousing of the nations. Diplomacy is burning down your neighbors house while having them over for dinner. Diplomacy is saying the nastiest things in the most polite way but still saying them.

Politics is playing nice with everyone. Politics stagnates.

[uaciaut]

It is a tool used by the weak willed in order to cajole others to go along with them through incessant whining and forced politeness, of course.

You're being too negative if you're reffering to the general use of diplomacy, though i personally think you're quite accurate if you're describing what most people of CN use under the name of "diplomacy".

And i don't think Ivan was incapable of apologizing either, he generally made sure he wouldn't need to though.

[Schattenmann]

and ooc: Hat tip to Will Rogers

[OOC] This is the third TWiP in which people have alluded to or complimented references to movies/TV/pop culture that they saw in my OP; however, it's also the third TWiP in which I have no idea what they're talking about because I have not purposefully included any references that they see. But, I'm interested, so, can you show me what I did there? [/OOC]

[General Specific]

[OOC] This is the third TWiP in which people have alluded to or complimented references to movies/TV/pop culture that they saw in my OP; however, it's also the third TWiP in which I have no idea what they're talking about because I have not purposefully included any references that they see. But, I'm interested, so, can you show me what I did there? [/OOC]

OOC: I was referring to my IC "nice doggie-get a rock" line. It's Will's, not mine. Guess I should not have winked. All good, etc.

Edited March 3, 2009 by General Specific

[Imhotep]

[OOC] This is the third TWiP in which people have alluded to or complimented references to movies/TV/pop culture that they saw in my OP; however, it's also the third TWiP in which I have no idea what they're talking about because I have not purposefully included any references that they see. But, I'm interested, so, can you show me what I did there? [/OOC]

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

I believe this was the intent.

[Electron Sponge]

Actually, it has been my experience that what is commonly believed to be "diplomacy" in this realm is not much more than politics. Diplomacy is the rousing of the nations. Diplomacy is burning down your neighbors house while having them over for dinner. Diplomacy is saying the nastiest things in the most polite way but still saying them.

Politics is playing nice with everyone. Politics stagnates.

This is very well said. You, sir, are enlightened. If only more would see the light.

[Duncan King]

Oh, so that's why I couldn't sleep during January. Sponge

Certainly an enjoyable read.*

Edit: Grammar and disclaimer.

*While I do not endorse the use of spying, I do appreciate interesting content on the forums and Vox is, at least, interesting.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Duncan King

[A Soviet Attack]

It is a tool used by the weak willed in order to cajole others to go along with them through incessant whining and forced politeness, of course.

*ASA huggles Sponge

But really, diplomacy isn't just a tool of the weak willed. Hell, Vox has treaties, doesn't it?

[Duncan King]

*ASA huggles Sponge

But really, diplomacy isn't just a tool of the weak willed.

It could be said that diplomacy is war and actually going to blows is a loss of sorts. The real victory comes from shutting your opponent down before actually having to go to war. For me, having things go public is also a loss. But I get the feeling that that's the kind of mindset the author of this report is opposed to. But I'm not really here for the war or the drama, I'm here more for the interaction with people.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Duncan King

[Frozenrpg]

It is a tool used by the weak willed in order to cajole others to go along with them through incessant whining and forced politeness, of course.

I would also like the put the arguement forward that some use it as a tool for survival. We were around for the days when RON was Independent. Before the polarized global hegemony collapsed we had two distinct sides; as such neutrals and independents could survive. With a single military-based power bloc in control (as was the Initiative post GW3) large independents or neutral blocs were no longer viable (see GPA and NADC/GUARD) as these groups became immedient targets and pressure was put on them. As we can see with GPA and GUARD; the global hegemony cannot stand other groups who do not necessarily oppose it but who rival it in strength. Thus, IRON had to hitch their boat to someone, to preserve their survival. I believe IRON's change in foreign affairs since GW3 was not a decision that they made out of sincerity or desire to become part of the mess of an MDP-Web, but instead a decision of necessity: to preserve their existance.

The vast majority if not all of the other large alliances who were not part of the Initiative and who remained independent of the treaty web post GW3 have been met with some sort of aggresion or pressure from the former WUT signatories over the years; RON foresaw this, and adjusted accordingly through diplomatic means.

Edit: Spelling is good.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Frozenrpg

[OneBallMan]

Schatt - At least there was some content this time, though your leaps of logic are pretty lame, imho. You might want to take deep breath next time before writing, as the content actually carries here, without your over-the-top commentary. While my personal view aside, I do see the logic in your presentation, even while holding my nose on the material.

Overall, 3.5 Stars.

Your friend,

OBM

[MCRABT]

That's like saying that a crocodile is a superbly designed killing machine but a bird is better at flying. Moo is better at diplomacy because Ivan didn't even bother with it. Had Ivan wanted to play parlor games and send h*ggles around the world he could have. Instead he chose to be interesting. He chose to have teeth and use them.

GOON's and FAN both had teeth too they were easily knocked out. A lack of dental care leads to decay.

Edited March 3, 2009 by MCRABT

[Coursca]

Frozenrpg: Who cares? You're stating the obvious aims of every state in a so-called realist international system: survival and security. Good for you. You've read a book or two.

[hertugen]

Another fitting Will Rogers quote:

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

Seems to be one or two ignorant people in this thread.

[Zinobya]

Had Ivan wanted to play parlor games and send h*ggles around the world he could have. Instead he chose to be interesting. He chose to have teeth and use them.

I have a question out of pure curiosity. If the Continuum ends and Moo is deposed and all that is bandied about these days ever comes to pass, then what do you foresee the future/aftermath to be?

I'm thinking another rises to fill the void. I'm thinking whatever comes after will be just as bad or worse as what people complain about now. I'm thinking it will be about revenge, just as it has always has been.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy revenge and war as much as the next person does, or I at lease hope does. It is, after all what makes Planet Bob go 'round. If the CoaLUEtion had won the first war, it would have resulted in revenge against the oppressors. The subsequent wars, since this did not occur, were about revenge against those that took part in the first. The rise of power blocs were designed to ensure noone who survived ever had to face humiliation again.... then the blocs ate themselves from the inside as people turned on each other and began taking their revenge on each other.

Now we have Vox and NPO, two factions of the same beast still saying no U over who was the better leader, wanting revenge.

Its all the same freaking day on Planet Bob. The difference lies in whether we have real war or not. Everything else is the devil in the details.

Please explain why I am wrong. I'm quite serious.

[Cortath]

I speak for the Technology Corps of the New Pacific Order when we say that we are disappointed that Vox wasn't interested in our sundry dealings this week. I suppose one of our several hundreds transactions this week wasn't enough to warrant news this week.

[janax]

I dunno that an alliance of 900 should crow about "several hundred" transactions...

Just sayin.

[shahenshah]

It's amazing that no matter what TWiP reveals, the same people come out with the same comments, heads lodged deeply in sand. I swear if TWiP broke into the almighty's residence and destroyed every nation that didn't belong to Vox Populi you'd still see the 'lol is that all you got?' comments from a select few.

They have infiltrated the most powerful bloc in existance, what more do you want?

Similar logic applies to other side...as proved in Jarheads DoW threads. Some people will whine regardless of the content or subject.

[Frozenrpg]

Frozenrpg: Who cares? You're stating the obvious aims of every state in a so-called realist international system: survival and security. Good for you. You've read a book or two.

So seeing your passionate response and the fact that you are the current Secretary of State, does that mean I struck a nerve? I mean, this was by no means an attack on RON. I was just pointing out the abandonment of IRON's ideals; and using it as a counterclaim against Dr. Sponge's origional message. If anything you should be happy, I was arguing against one of your enemies who has apparently caused quite a bit of internal Q drama.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Frozenrpg

[Unko Kalaikz]

So what does this episode of TWiP tell us? One, that Vox's spy is still in place. And two, that it isn't all hugs and kisses inside the inner sanctum of the Continuum.

You are assuming your "spy" isn't compromised, isn't a double agent, and hasn't already been caught and Schattenman is using old material spread over time.

[Oktavia]

You are assuming your "spy" isn't compromised, isn't a double agent, and hasn't already been caught and Schattenman is using old material spread over time.

Perhaps they should change forum permissions and use disinformation to weed out the possible leaks.

[Unko Kalaikz]

Perhaps they should change forum permissions and use disinformation to weed out the possible leaks.

I suspect they already are doing that and that is why old information is old.