NG's Not Only Reasonable, but Kind Offer

[Jason8]

Just now, HeroofTime55 said:

NPO has quite clearly expressed their desire to punish Polaris for having a mind of their own. The idea that the Polar front was going to peace out ahead of the primary front, and that's what our side misunderstood?  That's one of the most absurd and insane theories in this whole thread. 

It was never discussed.

[Rebel Virginia]

Forgive my skepticism. It's just I've seen this song and dance before.

[Electron Sponge]

3 hours ago, Jason8 said:

It was never discussed.

adorable

[Kapleo]

For whomever needs to hear this: asking for peace is ok. Especially if you're getting you a*s handed to you.

[Grand Lord of Funk]

I'm here to offer everyone a hug.

 

[dev0win]

 

8 hours ago, Jason8 said:

It was never discussed.

lol!

 

[kerschbs]

8 hours ago, Rebel Virginia said:

Forgive my skepticism. It's just I've seen this song and dance before.

Same. This is not a new playbook. 

 

1 hour ago, Kapleo said:

For whomever needs to hear this: asking for peace is ok. Especially if you're getting you a*s handed to you.

I spit my coffee on my phone screen reading this. 

 

59 minutes ago, Grand Lord of Funk said:

I'm here to offer everyone a hug.

 

Needs more dancing Snoop.

[Piejonk]

Brilliant idea: peace talks should continue but only on here

[Johnny Apocalypse]

1 minute ago, Piejonk said:

Brilliant idea: peace talks should continue but only on here

 

Seconded.

[Kapleo]

1 hour ago, kerschbs said:

I spit my coffee on my phone screen reading this. 

Why? It's true.

[Kapleo]

1 hour ago, Piejonk said:

Brilliant idea: peace talks should continue but only on here

Peace would never be achieved. Egos getting bruised as it is while things are private. Imagine having to settle for a white peace in front of everyone after being so loud about your "imminent" victory. 

[HeroofTime55]

Nvm lol

Edited December 5, 2022 by HeroofTime55
Lol

[Piejonk]

1 hour ago, Kapleo said:

Peace would never be achieved. Egos getting bruised as it is while things are private. Imagine having to settle for a white peace in front of everyone after being so loud about your "imminent" victory. 

Which alliance are you in again?

[Kapleo]

22 minutes ago, Piejonk said:

Which alliance are you in again?

Christian Coalition of Countries, obviously. Something about Stockholm syndrome or idk.

 

30 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Nvm lol

I saw that. Or maybe I didn't. Wouldn't be that unfair if you can enforce it. That's a big "if" though.

[HeroofTime55]

10 minutes ago, Kapleo said:

 

I saw that. Or maybe I didn't. Wouldn't be that unfair if you can enforce it. That's a big "if" though.

It wasn't exactly what Johnny suggested so I deleted it.  But it would be fun. 

Realtalk, we are winning, but it's not like the old days where winning meant you absolutely obliterated your opponents.  There is so much bloat it's almost too much to deal with.  They can have 1000 nations doing absolutely nothing and we can tear any one of them to shreds, but at the end of the day we still only have so many outgoing warslots.  So it's hard to make them even realize they've been losing the whole time, lol.  Normally, you crush people's morale to get them to make concessions, but I think the world today is overwhelmed by apathy more than anything.  This pretty much leaves only two possible outcomes, perpetual war or white peace.

[Sarkin]

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Realtalk, we are winning, but it's not like the old days where winning meant you absolutely obliterated your opponents.  

 

Y'know, I don't really blame you for having a warped perspective about the war; NG has done great. Your net damage for the war is at +2,984,761 NS, which is excellent. The next-best net damage for your coalition is The Legion at +912,533. That's also great, although they've benefitted a bit from NPO agreeing to solo them (despite being on virtually every other front as well) for the sake of RFI and letting Legion get their vengeance for some past grievances. Regardless, they saw an advantage and didn't waste it; good on them.

 

However, the overall picture isn't as rosy for you. Including the Polar and OBR/OG/CRAP stats in with your coalition, just as you demand, your coalition's net damage is -3,437,243. ...There isn't a plus sign in front of that number.

• Don't trot out the "of course the net damage is in your favor, you have all the big nations and tech!" argument. It's absurd to make that excuse when you've simultaneously insisted for months that the big nations are Totally Irrelevant Actually.
• Don't bother with the "well every nation I hit has been terrible and don't even know how to war lolololololol 🤣" bit either; anecdotes aren't meaningful evidence of the overall story. We've all fought people who didn't know or care what they were doing.
• You could argue that "yeah well we're catching up now that we've dropped out of range of the big nations, which was our plan all along, mwahahahahaha!" There's something to this argument; that was indeed your strategy and you have been cutting into our lead recently. Combining the six stat updates over the past month, you've reduced it by 94,701. Just a little more than 36 weeks to go at the current rate before you've achieved a statistical tie! 

 

Note that, in using the net damage figures, I'm cherrypicking the metric that's most favorable to you. If you're correct that our alliances are so full of inactive bloat, then you should really be running up the score, right? I could just as easily have made some bombastic propaganda post about how dramatically the tech loss percentages favor us, but I didn't need to do that because the raw stats still favor us.

 

The truth is that it's been a competitive war; you're right that neither side has obliterated the other. The raw stats favor us, but not to a dramatic degree. There are entire NS ranges that your coalition found a foothold in and has largely managed to secure on certain fronts. There's plenty for you to be proud of, and if you're in one of those ranges, I'm sure it does feel like you're winning.

 

But, we have the stats for a reason, and they don't actually support your propaganda here.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sarkin

[Rebel Virginia]

I think you're still missing the big picture. Every alliance came into this knowing their top end would be burned by the Doom/NPO super nations. The damage ratios for those were always going to be lopsided in their favor due to the impact of that kind of tech. However, once they've burned for one or two rounds then the picture changes. After that they are out of reach of the top Doom/NPO nations and can join the larger swarm of RFD nations in the middle. There we have the advantage. Whether you believe that or not right now, the longer this goes on the more abundantly clear it will become.

[HeroofTime55]

42 minutes ago, Sarkin said:

 

Y'know, I don't really blame you for having a warped perspective about the war; NG has done great. Your net damage for the war is at +2,984,761 NS, which is excellent. The next-best net damage for your coalition is The Legion at +912,533. That's also great, although they've benefitted a bit from NPO agreeing to solo them (despite being on virtually every other front as well) for the sake of RFI and letting Legion get their vengeance for some past grievances. Regardless, they saw an advantage and didn't waste it; good on them.

 

However, the overall picture isn't as rosy for you. Including the Polar and OBR/OG/CRAP stats in with your coalition, just as you demand, your coalition's net damage is -3,437,243. ...There isn't a plus sign in front of that number.

• Don't trot out the "of course the net damage is in your favor, you have all the big nations and tech!" argument. It's absurd to make that excuse when you've simultaneously insisted for months that the big nations are Totally Irrelevant Actually.
• Don't bother with the "well every nation I hit has been terrible and don't even know how to war lolololololol 🤣" bit either; anecdotes aren't meaningful evidence of the overall story. We've all fought people who didn't know or care what they were doing.
• You could argue that "yeah well we're catching up now that we've dropped out of range of the big nations, which was our plan all along, mwahahahahaha!" There's something to this argument; that was indeed your strategy and you have been cutting into our lead recently. Combining the six stat updates over the past month, you've reduced it by 94,701. Just a little more than 36 weeks to go at the current rate before you've achieved a statistical tie! 

 

Note that, in using the net damage figures, I'm cherrypicking the metric that's most favorable to you. If you're correct that our alliances are so full of inactive bloat, then you should really be running up the score, right? I could just as easily have made some bombastic propaganda post about how dramatically the tech loss percentages favor us, but I didn't need to do that because the raw stats still favor us.

 

The truth is that it's been a competitive war; you're right that neither side has obliterated the other. The raw stats favor us, but not to a dramatic degree. There are entire NS ranges that your coalition found a foothold in and has largely managed to secure on certain fronts. There's plenty for you to be proud of, and if you're in one of those ranges, I'm sure it does feel like you're winning.

 

But, we have the stats for a reason, and they don't actually support your propaganda here.

What you fail to account for is our objectives as a coalition.  "Winning" is not so much a contest of raw stats (though I am certainly proud of our output, not just NG specifically but the entire coalition, as you note, the margin is slim, and the motion of the needle has reversed to our favor)

But our objectives, overall?  It's been a resounding success.  We have broken the conventional wisdom of Oculus and Doom holding the whole world hostage, we've proven your bloat and weakness, we've brought activity and excitement to the world, we've exposed the cracks in your now former hegemony.  We've knocked you down from what you assumed was a high place of uncontestable power.  We don't need to obliterate you to have beaten you.

If a 4.5% damage differential is what you have to hold on to pretend you haven't lost so much ground, then I suppose I can't stop you from consoling yourself with those small numbers.  But rest assured, we've won, and big.  If and when this ends, it will be with white peace, but what has been done, is done.
 

Edited December 5, 2022 by HeroofTime55

[Sarkin]

1 hour ago, Rebel Virginia said:

I think you're still missing the big picture. Every alliance came into this knowing their top end would be burned by the Doom/NPO super nations. The damage ratios for those were always going to be lopsided in their favor due to the impact of that kind of tech. However, once they've burned for one or two rounds then the picture changes. After that they are out of reach of the top Doom/NPO nations and can join the larger swarm of RFD nations in the middle. There we have the advantage. Whether you believe that or not right now, the longer this goes on the more abundantly clear it will become.

 

Nope, I accounted for that in the third bullet point. You've had the (dubious) advantage of your upper-tier nations having been burned down for months. Despite that, the recent net damage changes are still barely in your favor. 

 

Listen, it was the right strategy. Y'all were never going to win the upper-tier battle no matter how cleverly you played it; it was indeed lost from the beginning. By just saying "to heck with it!" and getting them all burned down immediately, it did give you better numbers in the upper-midtier, and you benefitted from that initial sacrifice over the late summer and fall.

 

However, if your argument that the advantage is growing over time were accurate, then we would expect to see an increasing velocity of net damage improvement for your coalition, right? Well, let's look at the stats:

• Early September to early October: +268,322
• Early October to early November: +314,202
• Early November to early December: +94,701

There's nothing for you to be ashamed of here. You are making gains, after all. But the story of these stats is that you've already maximized your advantage in the upper-midtier, and now those nations are entering the same situation our super-tier nations have been in: not able to do as much in the moment because they're out of or low on targets. It's a success for your coalition, but it's turned out to be a limited one, and not enough to snowball into something greater or eliminate your deficit in any kind of timely manner.

 

  

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

But our objectives, overall?  It's been a resounding success.  We have broken the conventional wisdom of Oculus and Doom holding the whole world hostage, we've proven your bloat and weakness, we've brought activity and excitement to the world, we've exposed the cracks in your now former hegemony.  We've knocked you down from what you assumed was a high place of uncontestable power.  We don't need to obliterate you to have beaten you.
 

 

I actually spoke to this point two months ago. Here's the link, for convenience's sake; I don't expect you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of everyone's posts made over the course of the war. The relevant part is the response to Canik.

 

I agreed then and now that you've accomplished a big objective: the seven-year hegemony was successfully challenged, and we've moved back to a multi-polar world. Personally, I'm proud about the hegemony's endurance over time (Non Grata included, once upon a time), but it's honestly pretty exciting to move into the next phase of this world. Sure, I would've preferred for it to continue, but this is a pretty good alternative. 

 

Anyway, from our perspective, we didn't start this war. So, naturally, we didn't have objectives on day one other than to defend ourselves. Over time, we decided on some objectives. One of them was to win the war in a literal, conventional sense, which the stats demonstrate we've done.

 

This is a lot like the peace negotiations discussion: just like it's OK and not even particularly surprising that each coalition had different things they wanted out of the peace talks, it's OK and not even particularly surprising that each coalition has different measures of success for the war. 

 

Consequently, It would be as silly for you to deny my contention that the stats mattered to us as it would be for me to deny your contention that your objectives mattered to you. Both can be true at the same time.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sarkin

[Jazzy95]

1 hour ago, Rebel Virginia said:

Every alliance came into this knowing their top end would be burned by the Doom/NPO super nations.

Actually I think OG and OBR entered the conflict (that is not related to this war in any way whatsoever) NOT knowing they were supposed to actually fight. 

[HeroofTime55]

20 minutes ago, Jazzy95 said:

Actually I think OG and OBR entered the conflict (that is not related to this war in any way whatsoever) NOT knowing they were supposed to actually fight. 

congrats on #3 you guys worked really hard for it

[Johnny Apocalypse]

39 minutes ago, Jazzy95 said:

Actually I think OG and OBR entered the conflict (that is not related to this war in any way whatsoever) NOT knowing they were supposed to actually fight. 

 

Yeah I mean the same can be said for CLAWS when you declared on them 🤷‍♂️ 

[MasterChief]

17 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

congrats on #3 you guys worked really hard for it

And it's not like they are restocking nukes. Some of them have been in peace for months now hiding 😆.  That's the only way they've not gone even more negative on their net damage. Worst alliance of this war, hands down, has been CLAWS. Pathetic.

[Jazzy95]

17 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

congrats on #3 you guys worked really hard for it

Not you literally cropping out 15 and 38 because they're in war mode 🙈 Also show @BigKif some respect, he's done more damage than like 90% of people in his tier.

[Jazzy95]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

Yeah I mean the same can be said for CLAWS when you declared on them 🤷‍♂️ 

No I literally don't think that's true? How would we declare on an alliance in peace mode?

 

4 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

Some of them have been in peace for months now hiding 😆... Worst alliance of this war, hands down, has been CLAWS. Pathetic.

Sorry, your alliance must have above 20% aid slot usage to participate in this thread.