Oculus Third Decree

[Mogar]

Back in the day, that NPO would have driven Monsters to perma-zi, pre-empted Bones, and charged his entire alliance 50k of tech in reps.

If you feel that is somehow better because it makes up for any feelings of inferiority be my guest, but personally I'd like to source my tech from somewhere more reliable.

I knew Brehon, Dilber, and Moo, all of them would be disappointed in how quick you folded to threats by BONES, not that I think it was just him that made this an easy PR option, the transparency of what the reality is what really makes this Decree so sad.

 

If he wants to attempt that, then I'm not sure why us giving peace to Monsters Inc would stop him.

Some people require motive.

[obscurus]

Everyone is Master of his own destiny.

Especially when he's buying tech from unsavory suppliers.

[murtibing]

Monsters Inc didn't ask SPATR for assistance in ending the conflict with NPO/Oculus.

 

Monsters Inc only asked whether it would be possible to send them monetary foreign aid (understandable since SPATR has PIAT with MInc). That's all. MInc was reasonable here - they were aware we might not send aid because they were at war.

 

So I presented the SPATR Leadership with the motion to send aid to Monsters Inc. According to customary SPATR rules all decisions affecting security of the alliance should be made unanimously (i.e. everyone in Leadership either in favour or abstains). After several days such unanimity was reached. We sent aid to MInc expecting an attack from Oculus.

 

Additionally Bones posted an ultimatum. That was surprise for Monsters Inc and surprise for myself too.

 

And then I was amazed that Oculus promptly gave peace to MInc. It was just too funny... We didn't want to waste such an opportunity for a good laugh.

 

So long story short, ultimatum was Bones' idea. MInc didn't ask for it, they were keen on fighting.

 

 

Back in the day, that NPO would have driven Monsters to perma-zi, pre-empted Bones, and charged his entire alliance 50k of tech in reps.
 

 

We wouldn't pay you anything anyway.

Edited October 23, 2015 by murtibing

[Mogar]

tl;dr apparently this is even sadder than previously thought.

[Sabcat]

tl;dr apparently this is even sadder than previously thought.

 

Sadder? This is hilariously funny. All of it.

[Caladin]

Monsters Inc didn't ask SPATR for assistance in ending the conflict with NPO/Oculus.

 

Monsters Inc only asked whether it would be possible to send them monetary foreign aid (understandable since SPATR has PIAT with MInc). That's all. MInc was reasonable here - they were aware we might not send aid because they were at war.

 

So I presented the SPATR Leadership with the motion to send aid to Monsters Inc. According to customary SPATR rules all decisions affecting security of the alliance should be made unanimously (i.e. everyone in Leadership either in favour or abstains). After several days such unanimity was reached. We sent aid to MInc expecting an attack from Oculus.

 

Additionally Bones posted an ultimatum. That was surprise for Monsters Inc and surprise for myself too.

 

And then I was amazed that Oculus promptly gave peace to MInc. It was just too funny... We didn't want to waste such an opportunity for a good laugh.

 

So long story short, ultimatum was Bones' idea. MInc didn't ask for it, they were keen on fighting.

 

 

 

We wouldn't pay you anything anyway.

 

Let me get this straight.

1. SPATR decided that it would screw around and issue an ultimatum.
2. Oculus then proceeded to not give a crap about the ultimatum, (let's be frank, you might have a couple of huge nations but we have hundreds of large nations).
3. Oculus then interpreted the ultimatum to mean that despite the lack of dialogue from MI, MI wanted peace and so offered it.
4. MI didn't actually want peace.
5. SPATR then realized that if MI proceeded to refuse peace it would be highly embarrassing, and so pressured MI to accept.
6. MI then proceeded to accept a peace they didn't really want because SPATR screwed up.

In other words, your leadership is retarded?

Good to know.

[Mogar]

That is some impressive spin from what he said.

[Letum]

Some people require motive.

What exactly would the motive have been in the first place?

[murtibing]

 

SPATR decided that it would screw around and issue an ultimatum.

 

No, SPATR didn't issue any ultimatum.

 

It was Bones (a.k.a. Untouchable) who issued ultimatum.

 

For SPATR to issue ultimatum, unanimous decision of Leadership would be required.

 

Unlike NPO which has the so-called "Emperor", there is no single person who decides things in SPATR. Things are decided by the Leadership as a whole, under the customary rules (since we don't have a written charter).

 

 

 

SPATR then realized that if MI proceeded to refuse peace it would be highly embarrassing, and so pressured MI to accept.

 

No, SPATR didn't pressure MI to do anything.

 

When LH asked me about the peace deal, I told him it is up to MI to decide. I only told him such peace deal would make Oculus look silly and that was a good thing. Bones also concluded that it would make you look bad so he was OK with the deal.

 

No person from SPATR took part in the negotiations as far as I know. I heard Unknown Smurf (from Kaskus) was present - but SPATR and Kaskus (despite being very close allies) are two separate alliances.

[Caladin]

 

No, SPATR didn't pressure MI to do anything.

 

Sure. Whatever you say.

[Letum]

Sure. Whatever you say.

It all makes sense when you consider that certain alliances apparently feel the need to beat up others to "prove" they are strong, and consider it a weakness if others don't take every opportunity to do the same.

[saxasm]

So, in summary, SPaTR worked as they usually do -- confusedly and without any coordination whatsoever. You then accidentally got yourselves into a position of demanding peace for an ally which wasn't even wanting it, while simultaneously not really officially demanding it.

When this mess reaches the OWF, the inability of anyone to read bones's mind (if indeed there is anything but confusion in there to read) led to it being interpreted as Mi wanting to surrender, which no one had any problem with, so a peace was signed.

Now the pro-MI6 side of the OWF has no more reason to pretend to support Mi, so they are calling for us to have beaten Mi some more. As expected, they prioritise cheap shots on the OWF over common decency and the good of their own.

I expect SPaTR are also very annoyed that they lost their excuse for attacking us. I guess they'll have to find some other technicality to attack us over to fill that void in their Planet Bob experience.

[Letum]

Now the pro-MI6 side of the OWF has no more reason to pretend to support Mi, so they are calling for us to have beaten Mi some more.

The funniest part is how they keep dodging any question about whether they would purposefully kept Minc in war out of spite if they were in such a position.

They want to shoot their mouths off but also don't want to look like the bad guys who would prolong a war for the sake of pettiness.

[Sephiroth]

Monsters Inc was among the most interesting alliances on the other side, so the other side seems to have lost any steam they might of had. If STA already told ODN not to defend them if M16 or TPF get pre-empted, Monsters Inc seemed to be all the other side had coming for them. :\

Edited October 23, 2015 by Sephiroth

[Kayser]

What you NPOculus guys are trying to spin this into is cute but it's really transparent. The people laughing in your face aren't doing so because you didn't keep Minc at war. It's the fact that one man COMPELLED you to the negotiating table and managed to get Minc off scott free from a situation where normally Minc would be made into a parking lot.

Let there be no doubt, I don't particularity care for Minc, but I respect the testicular fortitude it took for them to declare an offensive war agianst the present hegemony of their own volition. They saw plainly how fucked up NPOculus is and decided to do something about it. That's a lot more that every other alliance in the game can say.

That they managed to get peace almost as soon as there was even a possibility of substantive back up in the form of upper tier juggernauts is beyond hilarious. Just goes to really highlight the cowardice of this bloc.

Congratz on peace :)

[saxasm]

What you NPOculus guys are trying to spin this into is cute but it's really transparent. The people laughing in your face aren't doing so because you didn't keep Minc at war. It's the fact that one man COMPELLED you to the negotiating table and managed to get Minc off scott free from a situation where normally Minc would be made into a parking lot.

Let there be no doubt, I don't particularity care for Minc, but I respect the testicular fortitude it took for them to declare an offensive war agianst the present hegemony of their own volition. They saw plainly how $%&@ed up NPOculus is and decided to do something about it. That's a lot more that every other alliance in the game can say.

That they managed to get peace almost as soon as there was even a possibility of substantive back up in the form of upper tier juggernauts is beyond hilarious. Just goes to really highlight the cowardice of this bloc.

Congratz on peace :)

The idea that we were "compelled" into giving them peace still assumes that we wanted to not give them peace. You're literally saying that we should have wanted to not give them peace.

You can't both try to call us out for giving them peace and pretend like you aren't telling us to keep them at war. You can't both have your cake and eat it, it makes you look very silly.

[murtibing]

Some people don't understand a simple concept.

 

If MInc approached Oculus for peace and asked politely and then Oculus gave them peace - that would be OK and good show on part of Oculus.

 

But when one person makes a ultimatum and issues threats and MInc receives peace after that - that's completely different thing.

 

There is huge difference: doing something after a kind plead versus doing something after ultimatum and threats. Even if the end result is the same.

Edited October 23, 2015 by murtibing

[rileyaddaff]

It all makes sense when you consider that certain alliances apparently feel the need to beat up others to "prove" they are strong, and consider it a weakness if others don't take every opportunity to do the same.

Have you forgot about your preemptive attack on TPF already? What was the reason for that? Wasn't it for the lack of targets? "Sounds like certain alliances apparently need to beat up on others to 'prove' they are strong...". Your attempts to spin MInc peace as a "good deed" done by Oculus is laughable. Everyone knows it only happened because BONES flexed.

@Caladin - No one cares how many top tier members you have. A handful of skilled people can cut right through them. You need to stick to what your good at and whine about how things are so unfair for you.

Some people don't understand a simple concept.
 
If MInc approached Oculus for peace and asked politely and then Oculus gave them peace - that would be OK and good show on part of Oculus.
 
But when one person makes a ultimatum and issues threats and MInc receives peace after that - that's completely different thing.
 
There is huge difference: doing something after a kind plead versus doing something after ultimatum and threats. Even if the end result is the same.

Pretty much sums it up Edited October 23, 2015 by rileyaddaff

[Mogar]

I can't wait for the pretending to stop, this next war ought to be fun.

[kerschbs]

The idea that we were "compelled" into giving them peace still assumes that we wanted to not give them peace. You're literally saying that we should have wanted to not give them peace.

You can't both try to call us out for giving them peace and pretend like you aren't telling us to keep them at war. You can't both have your cake and eat it, it makes you look very silly.

No, it was the persistent posting by another member of Oculus government that lead everyone to believe you would keep them at war. Well that and years worth of behavioral precedent.

Most of us don't care about MI or don't like LH very much due to past interactions.

[Sabcat]

The idea that we were "compelled" into giving them peace still assumes that we wanted to not give them peace. You're literally saying that we should have wanted to not give them peace.

You can't both try to call us out for giving them peace and pretend like you aren't telling us to keep them at war. You can't both have your cake and eat it, it makes you look very silly.

 

I think that what's happened here is that MI have had a couple of rounds of war which they've spent kicking the soft underbelly of NPO. They've probably got some land and tech out of it, they've definitely had their fun and "won" in the damage stakes and then gone off home satisfied. 

 

Can't fault them. Absolutely brilliant.

[Varianz]

The mental gymnastics in this thread, just damn.

[Letum]

Some people don't understand a simple concept.
 
If MInc approached Oculus for peace and asked politely and then Oculus gave them peace - that would be OK and good show on part of Oculus.
 
But when one person makes a ultimatum and issues threats and MInc receives peace after that - that's completely different thing.
 
There is huge difference: doing something after a kind plead versus doing something after ultimatum and threats. Even if the end result is the same.

Yeah mate, tell you what. Why don't you try walking into a grocery store next time you're out in the town, and "Demand" that they let the next person that walks up to the till buy whatever it is they came to buy. You'll just get a weird stare.

Issuing an "ultimatum" over something that wasn't really in dispute in the first place and then crowing victory when it happens might make one feel better about one's personal statistical deficiencies, but they don't really make you some kind of champion.

Nor does mindlessly doing the opposite thing because somebody issued you an "ultimatum" and you need to rise to the challenge make you "brave". The reverse psychology of having to do the opposite of what you're asked to protect your pride is grade-school level mentality. And frankly, if your pride is so fragile that the mere appearance of going along with an ultimatum injures it, then "bravery" is the opposite of the characteristic that would be appropriate.

But you know, if you really believe that Oculus is so easily cowed and is not just being nice and diplomatic, you can always exploit that, claim the mantle of the world's top superpower, and throw your weight around to satisfy whatever motives it is you have. Because somehow, I have a feeling that it's not really Monsters Inc that you are feeling raw about. Edited October 23, 2015 by Letum

[Fox Fire]

Guys, the fact is, nobody wanted to fight Minc to begin with and Minc never wanted peace to begin with. You're all claiming a show of weakness from Oculus for not fighting Bones over Minc.... What kind of retard would fight Bones just to beat the shit out of an alliance they never cared to beat the shit out of in first place? If we wanted to beat up Minc we would and Bones wouldn't stop that. Fact is, we don't. So at the end of the day, everyone wins, with maybe the exception of Minc who lost their protectorate for absolutely nothing. 

But I suppose Mogar and crew are always going to jump at any chance to talk shit no matter how ridiculous it is.

[Claude]

congrats to Bones and minc on your victory.