Longshadow Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 And yet everyone says I represent Polar despite being only a common member. I like how you conveniently change the wording to suit your needs. We aren't talking about how a member represents his/her alliance. We are talking about how an opinion held by one member in fact is the prevailing opinion of the entire Alliance (when anyone with half a brain will realize this isn't the case). You do represent Polar, but it would be foolish to say that you and your silly ideas are what Polar believes in. Now you're MoFA and you still don't represent the AA that you, you know, represent? What would it take for your words to actually mean something about your AA? In NSO we have what you would call Ministers but we also have top gov't, you see the signatures there are those who are the top gov't. You don't see the ministers because they are simply that, ministers. We don't call them that in NSO but that's not the point, you're attempting to push relevance onto a position when in fact it probably doesn't hold that relevance. Considering you are one of the people who argued my opinions while Head of Econ of RIA held more weight due to my gov spot, I'm pretty amused by this stance. It really all depends on the gov't in question, trying to apply some overarching philosophy to titles/positions in a general sense is really sort of pants on head thinking, considering all these alliances have their own ways of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 This just in: MoFA is not a relevant position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 One man in a multiperson gov't. You act as if what he believes holds bearing for the whole of TLR. That would be like saying my opinion, as a lowly officer in Inquisition (or even if I were say the head of Inquisition [our war department]) would hold a high level of bearing for NSO as a whole. It doesn't and your attempts to insinuate it does in Rush's case merely shows your grasping at straws. That pretty much sums it up. I have been trying to tell everyone its an almost 100% ceremonial position for the entire 4 months I have had the title. If that concept is so foreign to everyone, the fault lies with those who dont get it, not with me. So from here on out, any gov position outside of the actual leader(s), no longer represents an alliance? Man talk about a CN norm that is now defunct... And here Rush is, going on and on about how there are CN norms while trying to get out of one of the most basic of CN norms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 This just in: MoFA is not a relevant position. So from here on out, any gov position outside of the actual leader(s), no longer represents an alliance? Man talk about a CN norm that is now defunct... And here Rush is, going on and on about how there are CN norms while trying to get out of one of the most basic of CN norms. *condescending retort to both these remarks defending the honor of Rush and TLR here* Ya'll have a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That pretty much sums it up. I have been trying to tell everyone its an almost 100% ceremonial position for the entire 4 months I have had the title. If that concept is so foreign to everyone, the fault lies with those who dont get it, not with me. Oh cmon Rush, MoFA title or not your words represent how TLR is perceived. With the MoFA title, your words represents TLRs stance. I think you're wise enough to know the difference. If you don't want the latter association, resign from MoFA. Don't expect the apathetic masses to remember that you're specific title is meaningless. TLR is not exactly at the forefront of politics these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That pretty much sums it up. I have been trying to tell everyone its an almost 100% ceremonial position for the entire 4 months I have had the title. If that concept is so foreign to everyone, the fault lies with those who dont get it, not with me. Oh cmon Rush, MoFA title or not your words represent how TLR is perceived. With the MoFA title, your words represents TLRs stance. I think you're wise enough to know the difference. If you don't want the latter association, resign from MoFA. Don't expect the apathetic masses to remember that you're specific title is meaningless. TLR is not exactly at the forefront of politics these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh cmon Rush, MoFA title or not your words represent how TLR is perceived. With the MoFA title, your words represents TLRs stance. I think you're wise enough to know the difference. If you don't want the latter association, resign from MoFA. Don't expect the apathetic masses to remember that you're specific title is meaningless. TLR is not exactly at the forefront of politics these days. You are, quite simply, wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 You are, quite simply, wrong. *Doesn't want to backpeddle + *Doesn't want to face allies wrath = *Minister of Foreign Affairs is not relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurthwaite Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 How exactly does my sig being on this contradict what James said? TLR raised no concerns during the peace talks or whatever it is they were. My sig being on this document does not change that one iota. What a silly silly post. One man in a multiperson gov't. You act as if what he believes holds bearing for the whole of TLR. That would be like saying my opinion, as a lowly officer in Inquisition (or even if I were say the head of Inquisition [our war department]) would hold a high level of bearing for NSO as a whole. It doesn't and your attempts to insinuate it does in Rush's case merely shows your grasping at straws. You see, as has been a norm for as long as anybody can seem to remember, holding a government position means that you are speaking for the AA, especially when speaking in public discourse. I simply pointed out an inconsistency. Calling it silly doesn't make the inconsistency any less. Nor does claiming that I am grasping at straws make the inconsistency any less. I really don't care what the conversation is really about; claiming that a member of government doesn't speak for the AA, even in the most wispy of insinuations, is contrary to all established and accepted standards and norms; therefore, who is really silly and grasping at straws? As far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to say whatever you want about whomever or whatever you want; however, to claim that a government member of any AA doesn't speak for the AA is rather obtuse, something I've never felt Rush is. Again, however, just because one person believes something, doesn't make that the truth, as this whole conversation seems to be confirming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 The beauty of all of this is until 3 months ago, I held 0 titles. Still, I was the voice of TLR. I told people I held no title. Still I was the voice of TLR. I got a title, upon getting the title the entirety of the gov and myself communicated that it was a ceremonial title given to me because I did not want it (which was, somehow completely overlooked by everyone), and again I am the voice of TLR. You see... y ou WANT me to be the voice of TLR. You NEED me to be that voice. So much so that there was 0 change in my status from when I was Trium.. to when I had no title, to when I was trolled (internally) by being given a title. It is not my fault that so many of you want to insist that "title means relevance" after having spent 20+ months of preaching that no title STILL meant relevance because none of you knew who Kestral, Elorian, or Hombre (or DC or rifleman) was. The reality is you want to ASSIGN a level of importance to me, and the facts and reality will be reshaped around whatever it is you decide to ascribe to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'm inclined to believe Rush, and I do think a government member is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, you're still wrong about giving Polar terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) The beauty of all of this is until 3 months ago, I held 0 titles. Still, I was the voice of TLR. I told people I held no title. Still I was the voice of TLR. I got a title, upon getting the title the entirety of the gov and myself communicated that it was a ceremonial title given to me because I did not want it (which was, somehow completely overlooked by everyone), and again I am the voice of TLR. You see... y ou WANT me to be the voice of TLR. You NEED me to be that voice. So much so that there was 0 change in my status from when I was Trium.. to when I had no title, to when I was trolled (internally) by being given a title. It is not my fault that so many of you want to insist that "title means relevance" after having spent 20+ months of preaching that no title STILL meant relevance because none of you knew who Kestral, Elorian, or Hombre (or DC or rifleman) was. The reality is you want to ASSIGN a level of importance to me, and the facts and reality will be reshaped around whatever it is you decide to ascribe to me. I think you're missing the point. The point is that your words are construed as TLRs the same way Westboro Baptist Churchs represents extremely religious Christians to the uneducated masses when you weren't govt and even moreso now that you're MoFA. I'm just a regular member of Kaskus but by similar logic everything I say is kaskus. I believe Tywin grasped this better and faster than you did. Edited January 14, 2015 by Unknown Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes the wise Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Pretty sure AFT gave tLR easy and sensible terms last war... white peace, wasn't it? At any rate thank you NPO and the rest of you for allowing common sense, and I'm not ashamed to say mercy, to prevail. Taking beatdowns in repeated wars catches up to us eventually. Surprised the war unfolded the way it did, though. Thank you to those allies who rushed to our aid when it was needed most! o/ AFTERMATH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The beauty of all of this is until 3 months ago, I held 0 titles. Still, I was the voice of TLR. I told people I held no title. Still I was the voice of TLR. I got a title, upon getting the title the entirety of the gov and myself communicated that it was a ceremonial title given to me because I did not want it (which was, somehow completely overlooked by everyone), and again I am the voice of TLR. You see... y ou WANT me to be the voice of TLR. You NEED me to be that voice. So much so that there was 0 change in my status from when I was Trium.. to when I had no title, to when I was trolled (internally) by being given a title. It is not my fault that so many of you want to insist that "title means relevance" after having spent 20+ months of preaching that no title STILL meant relevance because none of you knew who Kestral, Elorian, or Hombre (or DC or rifleman) was. The reality is you want to ASSIGN a level of importance to me, and the facts and reality will be reshaped around whatever it is you decide to ascribe to me. Believe it or not, over the past year or so, I always felt your words were your own. Now that you are a gov member (whether you like it or not), CN norms dictate that you now speak for your alliance. If you wish for this to not be true, then you need to cease any discussion about upholding CN norms. Though I guess hypocrisy is another CN norm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hypocrisy is a norm of anything that involves politics. That is a fact of life, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 If I makes Rush feel any better I don't give a rats fundamental orifice if he is government or not, the voice of his alliance or not, I still consider anything he says as complete rubbish. His perceptions about how he is viewed are pretty much irrelevant because no one cares what TLR thinks or says anyway. If he wants to be viewed as irrelevant, give him what he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helbrecht Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Best wishes to all those that can finally stop glowing. Put some posies in them tank barrels and re-establuish the knitting circles ya'll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Tyrant Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 If I makes Rush feel any better I don't give a rats fundamental orifice if he is government or not, the voice of his alliance or not, I still consider anything he says as complete rubbish. His perceptions about how he is viewed are pretty much irrelevant because no one cares what TLR thinks or says anyway. If he wants to be viewed as irrelevant, give him what he wants. Never change :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehmina Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 had a fun fight :) o/ DL o/ SNX o/ white or off white or Irish white or whatever peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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