Recognition of Hostilities

[TBRaiders]

 

Let us remember that you have been attacking civilized alliances like Polar for over a year now, and have only gotten away with it because of the weaknesses in upper tier physics, so please don't feign horror that the oppressed will strike out at your tech production (which enables your terror to a large degree) in a guerrilla manner.

 

Let us remember that DBDC has been attacking alliances for over a year and not DT or DT probes.  It says a lot about polar that you can't predicts possible consequences for your own actions.  It should be a wake up call to those who are allied to you and how they may be a part of those consequences.

 

And I have to ask, do you really think we have only "gotten away" with it because of "upper tier physics" and that our skill and ability had nothing to do with it?  It's not like admin turned my 180K nation into a 400K nation and I suddenly learned how to war.  Its not like those physics did all our FA work for us and found us allied to the best alliances on this planet.  You should go read our terms of service thread from top to bottom.  See how many people thought they really had us by the balls.  Pay particular attention to your mates posts in polar.  Everything we knew we could do, we did.  Nothing happened on accident or because of "physics".

Edited January 9, 2015 by TBRaiders

[Dochartaigh]

Think that's just Grub. He doesn't count ;)

 

That was ES in his prime actually. Grub was not Emperor at the time of the UjW.

[King Srqt]

 

That was ES in his prime actually. Grub was not Emperor at the time of the UjW.

Grub was the one that kept crowing about it though. Sponge was over it by at least Karma. 

[Dochartaigh]

Grub was the one that kept crowing about it though. Sponge was over it by at least Karma. 

 

True but mostly because Sponge retired and barely visits this realm anymore. (Not sure bout now, though I have not seen him post in a long time. :( )

[Unknown Smurf]

 
Let us remember that DBDC has been attacking alliances for over a year and not DT or DT probes.  It says a lot about polar that you can't predicts possible consequences for your own actions.  It should be a wake up call to those who are allied to you and how they may be a part of those consequences.
 
And I have to ask, do you really think we have only "gotten away" with it because of "upper tier physics" and that our skill and ability had nothing to do with it?  It's not like admin turned my 180K nation into a 400K nation and I suddenly learned how to war.  Its not like those physics did all our FA work for us and found us allied to the best alliances on this planet.  You should go read our terms of service thread from top to bottom.  See how many people thought they really had us by the balls.  Pay particular attention to your mates posts in polar.  Everything we knew we could do, we did.  Nothing happened on accident or because of "physics".

PoTY.

Now that you've got the crown though, you've got to expect some ploy to get it, otherwise we will all be bored or this wouldn't be drama nations.

:popcorn:

[The Zigur]

Let us remember that DBDC has been attacking alliances for over a year and not DT or DT probes.  It says a lot about polar that you can't predicts possible consequences for your own actions.  It should be a wake up call to those who are allied to you and how they may be a part of those consequences.

I will be the first to say that I like many of the less radical members of DT having been in allied govt to them, but once you had DT govt like SCM sharing dual membership with DBDC all bets were off and they could no longer be considered independent of the action committed by DBDC. Similarly, splitting up different tiers of strength among a bunch of different AAs so that your strongest tier can raid without consequences to your lower tiers does not absolve collective responsibility between them all.

I am aware you disregard alliances as sovereign entities and instead want to bypass alliance governments to deal with politics as individual nations (thereby giving you complete global totalitarian control and ending the traditional Ordered Anarchy), but that is incredibly harmful to traditional alliances even if many of them ignore it to take the easy road and bandwaggon against Polar. I am aware of your most recent transgression of forcing a DoD member from the AA and having him attacked and sanctioned for nothing more than speaking out against DBDC, and while some alliances may capitulate to that kind of pressure not every alliance will.

I never said it came without consequences, but for myself defending sovereignty and freedom is worth every consequence it incurs, even EZI. You would be surprised at how many old school resistance fighters reside in Polaris. To me it would seem better, and wiser, to fight the rising of the second shadow rather than take part in it.

And I have to ask, do you really think we have only "gotten away" with it because of "upper tier physics" and that our skill and ability had nothing to do with it?  It's not like admin turned my 180K nation into a 400K nation and I suddenly learned how to war.  Its not like those physics did all our FA work for us and found us allied to the best alliances on this planet.  You should go read our terms of service thread from top to bottom.  See how many people thought they really had us by the balls.  Pay particular attention to your mates posts in polar.  Everything we knew we could do, we did.  Nothing happened on accident or because of "physics".

I never said you never had skill. Obviously, it takes a great amount of skill to pump untold aid packages of cash and tech into Cubaquerida while he produced exactly 3 million cash and 100 tech for others. If thats the kind of guy so many alliances want to follow then I look forward to the inevitable tribute payments, shadow viceroys, and other controlling and parasitical polices you will inevitably force upon them "because you can." Edited January 9, 2015 by Tywin Lannister

[mmansfield68]

Just to clarify: 

 

A)  Avalanche is upset with us for doing the same thing they did last war, randomly chaining in... if you want to call it that.  Our attack on them was anything but random.  They were at war with our ally.

 

B)  Polaris has been hitting our tech sellers for months asking what we were going to do about it.

 

C)  Here we are.  Can't see what all the hub-bubb is about, other than crying for crying's sake.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

I will be the first to say that I like many of the less radical members of DT having been in allied govt to them, but once you had DT govt like SCM sharing dual membership with DBDC all bets were off and they could no longer be considered independent of the action committed by DBDC.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

I am aware you disregard alliances as sovereign entities and instead want to bypass alliance governments to deal with politics as individual nations

Well that's rich given the above quote, isn't it?

I never said it came without consequences, but for myself defending sovereignty and freedom is worth every consequence it incurs, even EZI.

EZI is not a thing, it hasn't been a thing for a long time. Fact is, nobody cares about you at all - stop trying to make it a thing when it isn't.

then I look forward to the inevitable tribute payments, shadow viceroys, and other controlling and parasitical polices you will inevitably force upon them "because you can."

I look forward to the day you stop making up nonsense.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

And I have to ask, do you really think we have only "gotten away" with it because of "upper tier physics" and that our skill and ability had nothing to do with it?  It's not like admin turned my 180K nation into a 400K nation and I suddenly learned how to war.  Its not like those physics did all our FA work for us and found us allied to the best alliances on this planet.  You should go read our terms of service thread from top to bottom.  See how many people thought they really had us by the balls.  Pay particular attention to your mates posts in polar.  Everything we knew we could do, we did.  Nothing happened on accident or because of "physics".

 

I think some of us are always going to see it as a bit of an exploit that you can make yourself effectively invulnerable as an alliance simply by recruiting carefully. It's been possible for a long time - I remember proposing it even before my time in Grämlins, so back ~2007, and mechanics changes since then have only made that strategy stronger. I dont want to minimise what you accomplished - many of us saw it could be done but you are the one that did it, and I think you deserve some credit for that, and it's a fact you didnt set the physics, you just exploit it. But I think it's a fact that all your other successes were made possible by building on that beginning - once you recruit a high enough percentage of the top tier nations (does not matter a bit who actually built those nations, just as long as they join you when the time comes) and avoid recruiting any vulnerable lower tiers your citadel effectively becomes inassailable. And once you have a good percentage of those targetted nations recruited, you can put the screws on the others, make them join or push them below the targetted range, which is exactly what has been happening.

 

Maybe your FA is top notch, maybe it's not, but once you have that position it's going to be wildly successful with even modest competency. It's easy to be fooled by your own success - but the real test is how you do when you are in a weak position, not how you do when you are looking down at the world from an inassailable citadel.

[The Zigur]

I don't mind them hiding up in their citadel and lobbing rocks down at us, but in a siege we can still burn the farmlands that feed them tech.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I don't mind them hiding up in their citadel and lobbing rocks down at us, but in a siege we can still burn the farmlands that feed them tech.

 

I can see why you'd feel forced to do that, but burning farmlands is serious darkside stuff. Even the ancient Hebrews, who did not flinch at genocide, drew the line at destroying fruit trees. (Deut. 20:19)

[SpacingOutMan]

I don't mind them hiding up in their citadel and lobbing rocks down at us, but in a siege we can still burn the farmlands that feed them tech.

 

So... what, they can wait a year or two for the rest of you to catch up? Interesting strategy: [i]bore them to death[/i]. 

[Great Lord Moth]

 

So... what, they can wait a year or two for the rest of you to catch up? Interesting strategy: bore them to death. 

Actually, yes. It's a common theme of the isolated, lonely tyrant. Frankly, the right choice would be to not catch up to them at all. If they wanted to not be bored they wouldn't have chosen the unstoppable path. A weaker alliance like, say, the RIA, has never had a chance to be the big guy, so every time a big war rolls around it gets into the s*** with everyone else. We have our fun. We make use of our time. Instead of being able to say "We dominated everyone and always won by nuke turtling the few times we had to go to war." we'll say "We had the greatest adventure a world like this could possibly afford, with friends and enemies both genuine and false, forging a strong identity that every member understands from the moment they join, and a sense of purpose that has gone unshaken for years despite the ravages of time on the world as a whole."

 

(In a sense, the way to fight a tech giant like DBDC is to attack the players directly, instead of their nations, through boredom. I understand the hypocrisy in what I'm saying as someone who has been fighting a DBDC nation for the past month, but still. >_>)

 

If I was DBDC, and I wanted some sense of purpose without sacrificing the ridiculous strength, I'd drop all political ties and declare war on every single nation I could get my hands on. I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Great Lord Moth

[SpacingOutMan]

Actually, yes. It's a common theme of the isolated, lonely tyrant. Frankly, the right choice would be to not catch up to them at all. If they wanted to not be bored they wouldn't have chosen the unstoppable path. A weaker alliance like, say, the RIA, has never had a chance to be the big guy, so every time a big war rolls around it gets into the s*** with everyone else. We have our fun. We make use of our time. Instead of being able to say "We dominated everyone and always won by nuke turtling the few times we had to go to war." we'll say "We had the greatest adventure a world like this could possibly afford, with friends and enemies both genuine and false, forging a strong identity that every member understands from the moment they join, and a sense of purpose that has gone unshaken for years despite the ravages of time on the world as a whole."

 

(In a sense, the way to fight a tech giant like DBDC is to attack the players directly, instead of their nations, through boredom. I understand the hypocrisy in what I'm saying as someone who has been fighting a DBDC nation for the past month, but still. >_>)

 

If I was DBDC, and I wanted some sense of purpose without sacrificing the ridiculous strength, I'd drop all political ties and declare war on every single nation I could get my hands on. I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.

 

It's not necessarily a bad strategy; it's just that it requires a [i]very[/i] long investment in all likelihood... one that I doubt would ever be cashable. 

[Dochartaigh]

 

It's not necessarily a bad strategy; it's just that it requires a very long investment in all likelihood... one that I doubt would ever be cashable. 

 

That is not entirely true actually. If most of those not allied directly to DBDC simply ensured they were under the top 300 nations, it would mean that a small amount of DBDC nations would actually be able to touch them. Most of us have been leaders on this planet for many years so growing our nations to maintain a lower strength than the top 300 would not be hard nor would most of us find it boring. It would take a while sure but our side would be the ones still capable of warring fully whereas DBDC would not be able to hit the vast majority on our side and it would be a minority that could hit anyways, meaning the ones who can hit, would end up in the grinder where DBDC would not be able to help much outside of sending aid. 

[Kigen]

Just to clarify: 

 

A)  Avalanche is upset with us for doing the same thing they did last war, randomly chaining in... if you want to call it that.  Our attack on them was anything but random.  They were at war with our ally.

 

B)  Polaris has been hitting our tech sellers for months asking what we were going to do about it.

 

C)  Here we are.  Can't see what all the hub-bubb is about, other than crying for crying's sake.

 

 

 

 

I would love to hear your reasons for attacking Menotah and GDA.  Menotah was not involved in this conflict.  Nor did we have desire to be apart of a conflict that started over nothing more than a desire for war.  But Dark Templar and Umbrella attacked us anyway.  No formal DoW with any reason, nothing.  Just one night we were under attack.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Kigen

[The Zigur]

I would love to hear your reasons for attacking Menotah and GDA.  Menotah was not involved in this conflict.  Nor did we have desire to be apart of a conflict that started over nothing more than a desire for war.  But Dark Templar and Umbrella attacked us anyway.  No formal DoW with any reason, nothing.  Just one night we were under attack.

This is why the word needs to spread to more alliances about what these people are up to. They have no rules, they have no laws, they have no ethics. They simply hunger for conquest and more resources to steal, a hunger to control alliances and devour every top tier nation. Everyone must hang together or we will all hang apart. Edited January 10, 2015 by Tywin Lannister

[protoa]

Cuz.

Edited January 10, 2015 by protoa

[Soviet Mudkip]

 

 

I would love to hear your reasons for attacking Menotah and GDA.  Menotah was not involved in this conflict.  Nor did we have desire to be apart of a conflict that started over nothing more than a desire for war.  But Dark Templar and Umbrella attacked us anyway.  No formal DoW with any reason, nothing.  Just one night we were under attack.

We ran out of targets.

[White Chocolate]

I never said it came without consequences, but for myself defending sovereignty and freedom is worth every consequence it incurs, even EZI. You would be surprised at how many old school resistance fighters reside in Polaris. To me it would seem better, and wiser, to fight the rising of the second shadow rather than take part in it.

 

I've avoided responding to what you post for the most part, Tywin, because overall I believe they help my side and harm yours.  They give us a common OWF personality to hate and if there is any public relations value for your side because someone somewhere takes you serious, it is so small it makes no difference.

 

However I'm tired of hearing how you think NpO somehow has a monopoly on nation leaders willing to make huge sacrifices for a cause.  NpO has some high profile former leaders, from both Vox and NONE/LoFN, but a leader is the representative of an organization, not the organization itself.  I'm well aware of a number of NpO's old school resistance fighters and IF for some I thought it made any difference,  I would of pointed it out to DBDC leadership by now myself! 

 

Personally, of all the the misrepresentations you make, the one that I find most ironic is that you are critical of what you interpret as DBDC favoring "individualism" over alliance sovereignty and at the same time you brag about having former NONE/LoFN within NpO.  LoFN's primary philosophy was centered around the rights of INDIVIDUAL nations being able to exist outside of the alliance structure and that they have a right as individuals, incuding the right to fight back when raided as individuals.  My personal belief in both those positions has not changed.  The difference is, I'm far far more capable of surviving and being free to maintain my own philosophy when in a position of power than otherwise.

 

You talk a lot about "slavery" vs "freedom" but you fail to even mention one type of slavery - absolute devotion to a particular philosohy or ideal, especially when the actual result of the belief is harmful in a multitude of ways to oneself and one's alliance.  Bullheaded insistance that one way of looking at the world is the absolute best at the cost of thriving can be just as much a tyrant as blindly following any individual.

 

Do your alliance a favor.  Stop trying to make this war into some huge matyrdom.  Take a break and let the people within NpO who are far more effective OWF representatives do their jobs.  I want some actual competition in the public relations area please.

Edited January 10, 2015 by White Chocolate

[The Zigur]

I've avoided responding to what you post for the most part, Tywin, because overall I believe they help my side and harm yours.  They give us a common OWF personality to hate and if there is any public relations value for your side because someone somewhere takes you serious, it is so small it makes no difference.
 
However I'm tired of hearing how you think NpO somehow has a monopoly on nation leaders willing to make huge sacrifices for a cause.  NpO has some high profile former leaders, from both Vox and NONE/LoFN, but a leader is the representative of an organization, not the organization itself.  I'm well aware of a number of NpO's old school resistance fighters and IF for some I thought it made any difference,  I would of pointed it out to DBDC leadership by now myself! 
 
Personally, of all the the misrepresentations you make, the one that I find most ironic is that you are critical of what you interpret as DBDC favoring "individualism" over alliance sovereignty and at the same time you brag about having former NONE/LoFN within NpO.  LoFN's primary philosophy was centered around the rights of INDIVIDUAL nations being able to exist outside of the alliance structure and that they have a right as individuals, incuding the right to fight back when raided as individuals.  My personal belief in both those positions has not changed.  The difference is, I'm far far more capable of surviving and being free to maintain my own philosophy when in a position of power than otherwise.

Nice to see someone actually intelligent in DBDC post, but your point is still incorrect, because my problem was never with peaceful or self-reliant individualism. I am a strong believer in self-determination whether an individual nation or an alliance. However, let's say you have an individual (or group of individuals) who gains alot of power and then uses it to exploit other nations and alliances in a parasitical fashion. That is not the same individualism that people like Walford embraced... that is tyranny.

If you entertained the same philosophy as people that were in NONE, you would be with Hime Themis, not the God King.

You talk a lot about "slavery" vs "freedom" but you fail to even mention one type of slavery - absolute devotion to a particular philosohy or ideal, especially when the actual result of the belief is harmful in a multitude of ways to oneself and one's alliance.  Bullheaded insistance that one way of looking at the world is the absolute best at the cost of thriving can be just as much a tyrant as blindly following any individual.

Devotion is only a form of slavery if it is exploitable. However, our Emperor does not exploit the alliance by raking in continuous aid packages and producing nothing like Cubaquerida. Slavery is forced exploitation, and in an alliance where tech dealers receive some of the highest compensation rates in the world, Id like to challenge you to illustrate what exact exploitation you think is going on in Polaris.
 

Do your alliance a favor.  Stop trying to make this war into some huge matyrdom.  Take a break and let the people within NpO who are far more effective OWF representatives do their jobs.  I want some actual competition in the public relations area please.

If you think DBDC is winning the PR war you are sorely mistaken.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Personally, of all the the misrepresentations you make, the one that I find most ironic is that you are critical of what you interpret as DBDC favoring "individualism" over alliance sovereignty and at the same time you brag about having former NONE/LoFN within NpO.  LoFN's primary philosophy was centered around the rights of INDIVIDUAL nations being able to exist outside of the alliance structure and that they have a right as individuals, incuding the right to fight back when raided as individuals. 

 

Just as long as their NS does not rise too high?

[Hunterman1043]

It just baffles me that people consider DT to be some master overlord figure akin to the likes of Pacific back in the Continuum days. The thing about DT is that we are our own shit. We don't go out of our way to be a dick, and we are very respectful to those who give us that same courtesy.

We have no problem seeing other alliances succeed and grow, as that keeps this game going. All we care about really outside of war is how many tech deals can I get done; what's my slot usage like; etc....

Haters gonna hate, I get that, but damn. For those that say we cower at a "real" war and those that say we have no war experience, I invite y'all to go look at the awards page and look at the 7 day smallest alliance and nation gains. Our targets occupy almost every slot for the individual nation side, and both FARK and Avalanche are in the alliance list. If we had no war experience, then explain how we were able to coordinate so well to accomplish that achievement? (And I'm not just saying this because my target is number 2 on the list, lol)

Edited January 10, 2015 by Hunterman1043

[Mogar]

Maybe because you've avoided any major war for over 2 years and sat there collecting tech and cash for that time period, so yeah, you're able to do more damage than alliances that have had to actually fight difficult conflicts, fight a losing war for 4 months without collapsing and then talk.

[The Zigur]

Haha he just bragged about fighting two alliance wars