A Petition to the Community at Large: Regarding PZI

[Rokula]

PZI an OOC attacker for OOC attacking a bunch of people who OOC attack people themselves?  Sorry, I'm busy, but I won't get in your way.

This a hundred times over. The hypocrites advocating for this is laughable.

[DeathAdder]

It amazes me that some can be so stuck up on their own grievances with someone that they can't put aside their dislikes of those individuals long enough to take into account OOC attacking is never acceptable, regardless who it is against, or by.

[Schattenmann]

It amazes me that some can be so stuck up on their own grievances with someone that they can't put aside their dislikes of those individuals long enough to take into account OOC attacking is never acceptable, regardless who it is against, or by.

It amazes me that some can be so easily duped into lampooning themselves.  NG has done just as bad with gleeful abandon and will again.  No, that does not Rota's comments acceptable to me (nor have I said anything like that) it simply makes me not willing to tear my hair out and rub ash on my face and PZI Rotavele for their benefit.

 

This thread is the heart of the moralist caricature: led around by your noses, willfully pliant to the people who sneer at the moral position you're taking.  You're a punchline to NG right now.

 

You're also cowards.  Half of you stand lockstep beside the people and AAs who've committed these attacks, sucking their teats and turning your heads, mocking people like ChairmanHal or me who sincerely care about this subject while it suited your political goals, yucking it up and high-fiving your low friends in high places.  But now we must purge the planet of the unaligned Rota scum to save our souls.  Get bent.

 

OOC attacks are unacceptable, now NG can internalize that, and that's a shame.  Rota can piss off, too.

 

 

Polaris' gov't, which I am not in, has already frowned on my personal opinion in private, along with several members.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Schattenmann

[Gibsonator21]

I agree with Schatt, but with far, far less spirit.

[The Zigur]

I certainly don't disagree that for months certain people have exploited a tragedy for political capital.

[Starfox101]

Regardless of what NG has done in the past, I'd say majority of us are guilty of some form of OOC attack at some point. When it becomes common place, or when it's brought into this realm rather than the back channels of IRC, that's when the community needs to take action. Frankly I don't care if it was Rota, or an ally of mine. I'd have the same position on this, and it's the same one we've always taken Schatt.

 

That's pretty much what we are all getting at. Regardless of any other factors that cloud this, this is a terrible action, and a perfect time to execute a community enforced PZI of Rotavele.

 

Also, noting that NG is my least favorite alliance in the world. The member in question however, is not NG himself, and thus shouldn't be automatically affiliated with what some in NG do. I'd hope I am judged by myself rather than those I've been around.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Starfox101

[DeathAdder]

Regardless of what NG has done in the past, I'd say majority of us are guilty of some form of OOC attack at some point. When it becomes common place, or when it's brought into this realm rather than the back channels of IRC, that's when the community needs to take action. Frankly I don't care if it was Rota, or an ally of mine. I'd have the same position on this, and it's the same one we've always taken Schatt.

 

That's pretty much what we are all getting at. Regardless of any other factors that cloud this, this is a terrible action, and a perfect time to execute a community enforced PZI of Rotavele.

 

Also, noting that NG is my least favorite alliance in the world. The member in question however, is not NG himself, and thus shouldn't be automatically affiliated with what some in NG do. I'd hope I am judged by myself rather than those I've been around.

 

 

Pretty much this. I'm not really sure what the purpose of your rant at me was about, Schatt. Led around by my nose? No. Disgusted that someone would make comments like that while sitting on my AA, or pretending to care about the person whose death they mocked after the fact? Most certainly.

 

Sorry that I can occasionally pull my head out of my ass and overlook my own personal political agenda to recognize a line -NO ONE- should cross.

Edited August 5, 2014 by DeathAdder

[Starfox101]

I'd also hope that if this ever happened to me or any of my friends that this would be the same response taken by the community, regardless of past actions or feelings that I've hurt.

[Freelancer]

Good Freelancer
 
 Read carefully what i wrote particularily the end.. There is a message, thus far missed by Rotavele and you.
 
Respectfully
Dame Hime Temis

I did miss that and to be honest with myself I was shocked I was reading what I did and hit the reply button a little quicker than I should have, my bad ?  :p

That said, you know how I think when it comes to RP and our world, I was taught by some of best, you know this and you know I would never convict one character for the crimes of another, its the one thing people like you and I still hold sacred.


 

[Neo Uruk]

I'd also hope that if this ever happened to me or any of my friends that this would be the same response taken by the community, regardless of past actions or feelings that I've hurt.

...Believe it or not, I'd be pretty outraged for ya!

[Hereno]

It amazes me that some can be so easily duped into lampooning themselves.  NG has done just as bad with gleeful abandon and will again.  No, that does not Rota's comments acceptable to me (nor have I said anything like that) it simply makes me not willing to tear my hair out and rub ash on my face and PZI Rotavele for their benefit.

 

This thread is the heart of the moralist caricature: led around by your noses, willfully pliant to the people who sneer at the moral position you're taking.  You're a punchline to NG right now.

 

You're also cowards.  Half of you stand lockstep beside the people and AAs who've committed these attacks, sucking their teats and turning your heads, mocking people like ChairmanHal or me who sincerely care about this subject while it suited your political goals, yucking it up and high-fiving your low friends in high places.  But now we must purge the planet of the unaligned Rota scum to save our souls.  Get bent.

 

OOC attacks are unacceptable, now NG can internalize that, and that's a shame.  Rota can piss off, too.

 

 

Polaris' gov't, which I am not in, has already frowned on my personal opinion in private, along with several members.

 

This is pretty much entirely true, but I maintain that Rota should have been whipped into shape a long time ago and that the community will be better for it.

[Sephiroth]

Normally I am against PZI, but for Neo Uruk I'm willing to make an exception.

 

If anyone deserves EZI its Neo Uruk. I hope those with nations in range make it happen.

[The Zigur]

Just a recap about the history behind the use of this tactic:

 

ZI was originally a sentencing measure which involved reducing a nation to zero infrastructure and releasing them. These targets were low priority (raiders or smaller rogues) and generally forgotten after the initial encounter, except in alliances with good intelligence or security bureaus that would keep dossiers.

 

PZI originated as an anti-rogue strategy to permanently remove rogues, especially nuclear or repeat rogues, as a tangible military threat. However, the [ooc]IC/OOC line[/ooc] would still be respected, and nations could reroll (minus whatever wonders and tech they had before). It was normally the case that a rerolled PZI player was free to reveal his prior identity since he was only a military target.

 

EZI originated as a strategy against political enemies, typically leadership of defeated alliances like myself, or high level spies. The idea was to force the political enemy underground upon rerolling, where they would present a negligible political threat. EZI would eventually be supported by the sharing of IP identification between alliances to determine whether they had joined a primary hegemonic alliance. It was considered the ultimate weapon and an excellent way to deter political threats from emerging. However, because of the efficiency of the method the tactic was abused, resulting in large numbers of EZI'd players for petty reasons and the eventual formation of Vox Populi.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Neo Uruk]

E: Not worth it. I really hope this is self-parody at this point, otherwise I spy someone with an unhealthy obsession.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Sephiroth]

What I find most insulting to Tito's memory here is Neo Uruk trying to use it to get the edge over Rota in his personal war, which he would never be able to achieve without getting a huge amount of help.

 

RIP Tito

 

If someone is angry and wants to ZI Rota over something stupid said, they can use their military power to do so if in range. Although once he has been ZIed, there is no reason to continue. Only for someone who advocates for others to PZI people for them would I find that fate fitting.

 

If Neo Uruk is asking for community support to get around PZIing someone, then I'm willing to throw my support behind that aspect. However I think he should get what he's asking for done upon himself, so he can get a feeling of why most of the community has found PZI to be going to far.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Methrage

[Neo Uruk]

What I find most insulting to Tito's memory here is Neo Uruk trying to use it to get the edge over Rota in his personal war, which he would never be able to achieve without getting a huge amount of help.
 
RIP Tito

You don't know my relationship with NG. Despite not talking much to tito personally, I am friends with a good many who were close to him. $%&@ off. To my knowledge, nobody in NG planned on making this particular thread. Not to mention that this isn't just about the recent incident, as noted in the OP. Rotavele is a repeat rogue, and he needs to be rid of his nuclear missiles for the safety of me, my allies, and quite a few alliances I have friends in (DS included, since you have such a good relationship with them!)

What I find insulting is that you're going to pretend that I'm sitting here tarnishing tito's name in order to score points against Rota... solely for the purpose that you can score points against me. I'm not going to dig up OOC events for IC gain; I've never been that guy. The few times that I have -- by my own admission -- crossed the line, there's been no gain for me. I made mistakes out of fury. I regret nearly every incident I've been personally involved in; and that's the difference between me and Rota. Edited August 5, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Sephiroth]

You don't know my relationship with NG. Despite not talking much to tito personally, I am friends with a good many who were close to him. $%&@ off. To my knowledge, nobody in NG planned on making this particular thread. Not to mention that this isn't just about the recent incident, as noted in the OP. Rotavele is a repeat rogue, and he needs to be rid of his nuclear missiles for the safety of me, my allies, and quite a few alliances I have friends in (DS included, since you have such a good relationship with them!)

What I find insulting is that you're going to pretend that I'm sitting here tarnishing tito's name in order to score points against Rota... solely for the purpose that you can score points against me. I'm not going to dig up OOC events for IC gain; I've never been that guy. The few times that I have -- by my own admission -- crossed the line, there's been no gain for me. I made mistakes out of fury. I regret nearly every incident I've been personally involved in; and that's the difference between me and Rota.

You only regret crossing the line when there is no gain for you, you're even admitting now you don't regret all the incidents you've been personally involved (Only nearly). Right now you are trying to use the OOC death of someone to get the community behind PZIing an individual for you, while you're claiming it on behalf of a dead person you barely even knew. So even now you crossing the OOC line to try achieving IC goals, while trying to invoke feelings of outrage on behalf of someone who should be resting in peace right now. Not having someone as opportunistic as yourself, acting like you are seeking out punishment of behalf another who has been wronged.

 

If there has been no gain for you the other times you've crossed the line, then I don't see why you think there will be gain this time. I don't think this will go as you had hoped, there are many here much smarter than you think.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Methrage

[Neo Uruk]

I'm not going to elaborate on the time that I don't regret.We'll call it self-defense.

It's not a secret that I have disliked Rotavele since...ever, I guess. However, he's now crossed a line that nobody would accept, and you're sitting here trying to get me PZI'd because I want him to be punished at the highest level I can personally help enforce? Get a !@#$@#$ grip, dude.

Yes, I barely knew tito. However, he was a good dude that I did enjoy talking to. He was a friendly face no matter who surrounded him in his alliance. I know people who are deeply affected by this. However, I chose to make that a secondary reason, not the cause of my post due to the fact that I didn't know tito that well. That fact, however, does not negate the horrible taste left in my mouth from the comments.

[OOC: Seriously, dude, can you just drop the whole OOC/tito aspect of your argument? This little stalker crush you have on me is starting to worry me when you're going this far. Do you go to a funeral when a friend that you rarely talk to dies? Would you like it if you went to a funeral of a distant friend and people were telling you that you were there "just to get sympathy from the family, since you came"?]

Edited August 5, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[berbers]

Holy crap Methrage stfu. People need to stop throwing this around for stupid reasons in a political simulator, its goddamn disrespectful. I know you hate rey and all, but making that statement in this thread after what happened is shameful.

Rey is entitled to his opinions without being told hes exploiting a death to score political points ffs, and the individual in question deserves to be left in peace instead of being used in this fashion.

Rota did something terrible and will now pay the price, rey literally has nothing to do with that.

[The Speaker]

Just a quick thing here....

 

IC or OOC or whatever you want it to be..I had no idea Rota was a dude, I'm in complete shock.

 

 

..ok carry on.

[Commander shepard]

rey literally has nothing to do with that.

 

Aside from the fact he created the thread and is now trying to profit on the masses of morally outraged people seeking to get "justice" by attacking someone ingame for OOC reasons.

What Rey did is quite commonly used, people try to exploit a movement or a tragedy for their own personal benefit.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Commander shepard

[jerdge]

[redacted as inappropriate, as apparently my view on the nature of this thread is not shared by those that get to decide what is appropriate]
 
 
 
(for the curious: currently you can find my original post quoted below)

Edited August 5, 2014 by jerdge

[Neo Uruk]

Rey, the reasons you stated are basically OOC and you're advocating for IC actions with OOC effects because your real motives are most probably IC ones that you're unable to keep from inciting your personal OOC aversion towards Rotavele. Your stance is as terrible as it can possibly be, and it would be wise of you to take a step back and to reflect on your own actions - if you can.
 
Rotavele's post was terrible on an OOC level, as he admitted to, but whatever is the right punishment for him is not for you to decide. This guaranteed trainwreck of a thread is also in the wrong forum. This is literally the first time in several years of CyberNations that I regret not having Moderation powers to immediately put a thread out of its misery. Really a good job, Rey.

Aren't you supposed to be neutral? Why are you telling me who I should and should not advocate for punishment of due to repeated roguery, among the many other reasons?

[berbers]

 
Aside from the fact he created the thread and is now trying to profit on the masses of morally outraged people seeking to get "justice" by attacking someone ingame for OOC reasons.
What Rey did is quite commonly used, people try to exploit a movement or a tragedy for their own personal benefit.

Sheppard, in his OP rey stated categorically this is not related to the recent Rota statements and the bullet points as to why Rota should be punished do not mention this most recent thing it did.

I mean the timing of it all makes me believe it pushed him over the edge, but the only tie between this topic and the other terrible one is being made by people like Methrage.

Im jusy saying do we need to drag the poor guy through every thread for the next week or can we all just back up and stop with the trash.

[jerdge]

[redacted as inappropriate, as apparently my view on the nature of this thread is not shared by those that get to decide what is appropriate]
 
 
 
(for the curious: currently you can find my original post quoted below)

Edited August 5, 2014 by jerdge