Limitless Nexus Recognition of Hostilities

[KD8RKE]

You weren't at war with him until after he was a member of Limitless Nexus. I'm not aware of any public Enemy of Kashmir list which I could of known about. Rather than actually being at war with him, you had him on some PZI type list until you guys wanted to take him off. If that is criteria for giving you the right to attack an alliance, I could have a lot of nations on a Enemy list nobody knows about and then use it as an excuse to start a war with any nation I want as soon as they are accepted into an alliance, but somehow I don't think most would consider would see those attacks as permissible just because I say they're on a list for something done several months back.

 

It use to be a common thing if I remember correctly. The alliance would talk to the other and let them know they have a fugitive and what they did.

[Neo Uruk]

You couldn't just check the thread that was trending at the time because Stonewall was goading Kashmir about when he would come out of peace mode?

[Sephiroth]

 

It use to be a common thing if I remember correctly. The alliance would talk to the other and let them know they have a fugitive and what they did.

Although I don't think its ever been common to suddenly attack while talking, unless the alliance attacking wants to start a war with the alliance they are attacking.

 

Generally how negotiations with Kashmir would go is they would try leading me on to believe we might have a deal, but they need time to deliberate. Then attack during that time. So every negotiation seemed like it was meant to stall time and give me the wrong impression regarding whether we are working things out or not.

[Pat Bateman]

Almost forgot about that chat, but you were so vague I still didn't know what he did or why you thought he had stolen aid. Or even why you considered him a nuke rogue. What his position was your in your alliance, what he did, why he did it, how he was able to do it; you left all that out. Also I'm pretty sure you guys declared that same night, so you didn't give me any options or let me know keeping him meant war between our alliances. You guys declared on him as I was still in the process of trying to negotiate with you, yet you never gave any indication you were about to attack despite my efforts to resolve the matter in a way which wouldn't make us enemies.

 

You would think when I'm in direct communication with your several of your leaders, you guys would tell me keeping him means war between us. Instead as I was speaking with Bern and had just sent him aid, after accepting he told me it was a pointless gesture and he had just ordered the attacks on stonewall. So even though I was trying to work with you guys, you decided it would be better to let me believe negotiations might work until after you declare war.

 

"I believe I speak for Kashmir when I say we are not presently seeking any terms for Stonewall. After what he has done to us, forgiveness and reparations or to let him walk free are not an option. It would be a waste of my time and your time because our position is very clear. The only option presented to you is if you want to burn for a traitor, liar and thief. I'm hoping that answer is no because the list of victims this person has accumulated should not be drawn out any further. "

 

Literally said by Kashmir's Secretary of War BEFORE they declared war.  What about this statement would give you even the slightest impression that they were willing to negotiate?  You are either just lying or completely delusional methy.

 

Some atrocities can't be fixed by simply buying someone off.  That's one of the many things you fail to understand.  You keep saying Kashmir failed to negotiate.  You weren't negotiating either.  You were just throwing money at them to basically cease their attacks.  Never was it in the cards for you to let them hit Stonewall, just like it was never in the cards for them to accept money in exchange for the crimes he committed against Kashmir.  Nobody was "negotiating", you were both making demands.  The only difference is Kashmir never claimed to be negotiating in the first place, as you are right now.  The fact of the matter is you were harboring an enemy of Kashmir and a nuclear rogue.  When that was made clear to you, you should have released him to Kashmir AND THEN STARTED NEGOTIATING his peace.  Instead you tried pumping your chest out and telling them they can't hit him because he was in your "alliance".  They hit you anyways and you've been trying to spin it to look like you weren't wrong ever since.  You're wrong, Meth.  Put it to rest now.  

[Sephiroth]

 

"I believe I speak for Kashmir when I say we are not presently seeking any terms for Stonewall. After what he has done to us, forgiveness and reparations or to let him walk free are not an option. It would be a waste of my time and your time because our position is very clear. The only option presented to you is if you want to burn for a traitor, liar and thief. I'm hoping that answer is no because the list of victims this person has accumulated should not be drawn out any further. "

 

Literally said by Kashmir's Secretary of War BEFORE they declared war.  What about this statement would give you even the slightest impression that they were willing to negotiate?  You are either just lying or completely delusional methy.

 

Some atrocities can't be fixed by simply buying someone off.  That's one of the many things you fail to understand.  You keep saying Kashmir failed to negotiate.  You weren't negotiating either.  You were just throwing money at them to basically cease their attacks.  Never was it in the cards for you to let them hit Stonewall, just like it was never in the cards for them to accept money in exchange for the crimes he committed against Kashmir.  Nobody was "negotiating", you were both making demands.  The only difference is Kashmir never claimed to be negotiating in the first place, as you are right now.  The fact of the matter is you were harboring an enemy of Kashmir and a nuclear rogue.  When that was made clear to you, you should have released him to Kashmir AND THEN STARTED NEGOTIATING his peace.  Instead you tried pumping your chest out and telling them they can't hit him because he was in your "alliance".  They hit you anyways and you've been trying to spin it to look like you weren't wrong ever since.  You're wrong, Meth.  Put it to rest now.  

Even after that they would still offer deals and say they need time to deliberate, then attack during that time. Even after he was attacked I tried negotiating his release and they said no more wars would be declared on anyone in LN (including Stonewall), then there would be a ceasefire after the round. The catch would be they need time to deliberate in order to make it official, then they declared more war in contradiction with the deal they implied we had, disregarding any attempts I made at compromises with them and leading me to believe they weren't sincere in any of their negotiations.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Sigrun, the difference is this: No one spoke to Kashmir about Stonewall's past.

A regrettable oversight. I have always been very careful about admittances myself, and while I wont pretend it's always possible for me to investigate a ruler as well as I would like, I certainly would not have let that slip through.

And you can take a look at my alliance information if you don't get the punchline. Hah. Hah.

I have seen over and over again how lax lots of alliances are about admittance. Admit it, there arent that many recruits to go around and people are a lot more concerned about getting them than finding out where they have been. Stonewall has had time to become an expert at abusing that fact.
 

When Kashmir explained Stonewall's most recent skullduggery to Methrage, it was dismissed.

Just from the last page I can see that 'explained ... skullduggery' actually means sent him a very short message to this effect and expected him to immediately cut the ropes and hit reverse. I would not expel a member once accepted on such an 'explanation' and I am sure Meth wouldnt either. That's just not on the table.

 

The appropriate response to 'This guy just stole $200 million in aid from us and spent two months nuking our lower ranks' is to BOOT THE GUY FROM YOUR ALLIANCE.

Kashmir will boot members based on unsubstantiated assertions? Really?

Perhaps that is how you justify open door acceptance, you can just boot them afterwards?

Of courses practices vary considerably, but most reputable alliances do expect some sort of documentation before accepting allegations against their members - even new members.
 

The appropriate response is not to offer us bribes to take his side when we're trying to remedy the problem.

Actually, I am not saying that it's necessarily the best way, but it's certainly a time-honored way of dealing with these problems. You have a conflict of interest, he's willing to pay you money to see things his way, there's nothing at all wrong with him offering. You're always free to say no after all. At least he made *some* attempt to find a way out of this that did not involve war between Kashmir and LN.
 

It is worth noting, that War Jesus has driven Stonewall to zero infra and zero tech today. The nukes will continue to fall until we have annihilated the rest of his purchased land. If Stonewall finds himself in range of War Jesus once again, he WILL be attacked and reduced to rubble once more. That we will ensure. Should he ever cause trouble for any alliance ever again, message Jack Layton or myself, and we will pacify him.

Why dont you ask Stonewall how many times in the past 6 years his nation has been ZId?

Of course we dont know if he will tell the truth or not, but either way the answer should be interesting.

[Sephiroth]

Stonewall is quite proud of his Guerrilla Warfare abilities, so he will rise like a Phoenix as many times as it takes. I'm sure he's just saving up his tax collections atm and taking a break from the nonsense.

[King Conrad]

Kashmir will boot members based on unsubstantiated assertions? Really?

Perhaps that is how you justify open door acceptance, you can just boot them afterwards?

 

 

All he needed to do was look at Kashmir's war page to see that we had been fighting wars with him. I do not understand why you're going to such lengths to defend Methrage's bad decision by trying to shift the blame onto us. If you were so certain that Stonewall was such a rotten bit of scum, then why didn't you chime in to say, "Hey, you should get that guy out of your alliance. He's done this before."? He got accepted into Riot Society, too. Before Kashmir alerted them to what he'd been up to. When they found this out, they booted him, as a friendly alliance should. We didn't make unsubstantiated assertions. We've had members leave the game because of Stonewall's harassment. Ask yourself, would two nations in relatively good shape sell down for the sole purpose of putting him down if there wasn't a good reason? Give your head a shake.

 

You're welcome to go look at Methrage's embassy on the Kashmir forums. It's public.

 

"Guerrilla Warfare abilities"

 

Don't make me laugh. He attacked a bunch of noobs with no wonders to their names, and still got his ass handed to him on a plate. And that was before we even made a concerted effort to beat him down.

[Neo Uruk]

Stonewall is quite proud of his Guerrilla Warfare abilities, so he will rise like a Phoenix as many times as it takes. I'm sure he's just saving up his tax collections atm and taking a break from the nonsense.

He can't be saving up much if he can't buy up from ZI.

[CnaedmacAilpn]

 

It use to be a common thing if I remember correctly. The alliance would talk to the other and let them know they have a fugitive and what they did.

Now that was a bit two-faced.  When you were MoW at TAE, you sabotaged their forums and leaked sensitive information out.  NSO and the other alliances you tried to join were informed, all refused you, except NSO, but that is normal for pixel junkies everywhere

[CnaedmacAilpn]

Stonewall is quite proud of his Guerrilla Warfare abilities, so he will rise like a Phoenix as many times as it takes. I'm sure he's just saving up his tax collections atm and taking a break from the nonsense.

You mean getting pounded into the dust, then conning another alliance into the dust,so the cycle can begins again.  His guerilla warfare abilities when translated into its simplest form read, he sucks at war.

[KD8RKE]

Now that was a bit two-faced.  When you were MoW at TAE, you sabotaged their forums and leaked sensitive information out.  NSO and the other alliances you tried to join were informed, all refused you, except NSO, but that is normal for pixel junkies everywhere

 

I never said anything about them having to reject them because of said information.

[Sephiroth]

You mean getting pounded into the dust, then conning another alliance into the dust,so the cycle can begins again.  His guerilla warfare abilities when translated into its simplest form read, he sucks at war.

I guess we'll see, but if Kashmir had to plan for weeks on how to make their next move against him; I doubt he'll go down easily. Also if you save up 20 tax collection and make a donation, that can propel you into nuclear capable strength with quite a bit of money on hand. He seems like the type willing to make donations. Also when joining he did warn me only to accept him if I wasn't afraid of Kashmir, so I wouldn't say he conned me. I just overestimated my ability to strike a deal with them, as I thought Kashmir would be more interested a deal than continuing to fight over old grudges. Also I wanted his services so I didn't ask into why I would need to not be afraid of Kashmir.

 

I still do not regret accepting him and if Kashmir wants a drawn out over this, that is up to them. However after this round is over I'll see if SirWilliam still wants to continue this. If denkimon was successful in convincing them stonewall should be released, then the main disagreement on what terms would come after at least one round of war would be out of the way. Although he always leaves any deals open to not happening for whatever reason, so I'll believe it when it happens.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Malkavian]

So, long story short: when is Methrage going to run out of money to pay the bills? Whenever that happens, the argument should end.

[Sephiroth]

So, long story short: when is Methrage going to run out of money to pay the bills? Whenever that happens, the argument should end.

I wouldn't be surprised if this war continues long after I can't pay my bills. Me not fighting back won't mean they won't continue attacking, although that's when I start calling in favors for aid if they don't want to peace out; which might create new types of arguments. If I need to self ZI at some point to pay my bills because this gets drawn out long enough, I've had a lot of experience with Guerrilla Warfare myself.

 

Also I did give SirWilliam my word that if Kashmir peaces us out without any absurd terms, I'll take Neo Uruk off the Enemy of Nexus list after peace is achieved with Kashmir. So if Kashmir drops the $90m they want for stonewall and pauls release after this round of war, then peace could be possible if they don't suddenly have new terms they are pushing.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Rayvon]

Now that was a bit two-faced.  When you were MoW at TAE, you sabotaged their forums and leaked sensitive information out.  NSO and the other alliances you tried to join were informed, all refused you, except NSO, but that is normal for pixel junkies everywhere

 

We were let known, and it is common practice. We do due diligence on players coming to us with blank war/aid screens and just contact the most recent alliance if we can see any transactions. For there to be any fears of him repeating this in our ranks, he'd have to first rise to Sith Lord .. Below that there's no [admin] access to the forums through which sabotage to and we don't have sensitive information, there's far too much insensitivity around. And given a chance to mill about, he's not done a single thing since joining us to warrant any concerns. TAE had no desires to attack him when he came to us.

[CnaedmacAilpn]

 

We were let known, and it is common practice. We do due diligence on players coming to us with blank war/aid screens and just contact the most recent alliance if we can see any transactions. For there to be any fears of him repeating this in our ranks, he'd have to first rise to Sith Lord .. Below that there's no [admin] access to the forums through which sabotage to and we don't have sensitive information, there's far too much insensitivity around. And given a chance to mill about, he's not done a single thing since joining us to warrant any concerns. TAE had no desires to attack him when he came to us.

Actually TAE did, they also said he was on a ZI list, but he was admitted almost straight away, there was no way that an alliance war was going to be started, and NSO said they were not interested in what he had done.

 

Like I said there are Pixel Junkie alliances out there, that is the way it is, so i accept that.  The post was directed at him, as he was accusing someone else of something he himself was guilty of..  He was not Admin but had moderator rights on his MoW part of the forums, so he used that to delete everything before he went

[berbers]

I'm probably going to regret this effort, but let's just try this one more time:

 

Before this war I could of easily paid them $90m for his release and would of been willing to, had they been willing to negotiate. Fighting a bunch of wars can take its toll on a warchest, as war is expensive in the upper tiers.

 

Either way my main point is Kashmir gave me no choice but to be at war with them after I accepted Stonewall. Although I don't mind taking them on as my going away party, since I haven't been overly attached to CN for a while. Ever since I've become active again I've been using my slots to send out as much aid as I can, as I figured that would be less wasteful than letting my nation delete without doing so first. If Kashmir can bring me down on their own, I'll actually respect their resolve and accept their going away party they are throwing for me. However I feel it was just very opportunistic the way Berbers decided to join in. If he was brave, he would of declared on me when I wouldn't be at the biggest advantage possible.

 

Had I know he would do this, I would of been better off bandwagonning into every war he's been in, in order to get shots off at him when he's already preoccupied fighting others. Doesn't take much bravery to declare on someone when they are already fighting an uphill battle, but depending on his reasons for doing so can be seen as cowardly.

 

I wasn't opportunistic, you were shouting all over these forums about how Rey and Bern got Kashmir's upper tier wrecked, how you were going to burn them down, etc.  I did not think it was fair for an entire AA to have it's upper tier burned to the ground simply for defending their sovereign right to make a nuclear rogue/aid scammer pay for infractions.

 

To be quite honest, you outwonder me, my warchest isn't great and I have 0 navy.  So when I declared, I thought I was probably going to take a bad beating, but at least I knew I could help them drag you low enough to swarm you for round 2.  (I even sold 2.5K land so I could get out from under your navy, precious land that my citizens will never have beach houses on again)

 

The reality of the situation was, you had no chance.  You were being a blowhard with no ability to back it up and you probably have a few 100K in the bank, but I had no way of knowing that, so calling me a bandwagoner is a bit of a misnomer.

 

I/m prepared for the consequences of not letting you guys attack my alliance as much you wanted without responding, but I just remember an age in CN when bandwaggoning onto the bigger side in a conflict was universally disrespected. Maybe many feel differently in this day and age, but I still feel that way and didn't think of berbers as that type before. However if that is how he wants to be remembered, its his choice.

 

If berbers doesn't peace out on his own, the next step will be figuring out if he is acting in a way supported by NATO and if they can reign in their member if he hasn't went rogue.

 

Here you tell me I bandwagoned on to the bigger side, when I thought I was helping even the odds, considering all the "rawr rawr Kashmir upper tier die now rawr I am a powersphere of my own doombird doombird doombird" stuff you've been spouting.

 

Also, NATO is a reasonable alliance, I suspect if you talk to Gov the way you should have talked to Kashmir Gov things will probably work out in your favor.  I would not try your earlier approach however, just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

Although the one who has acted the most dishonorable throughout this is berbers, who was eyeing my nation for when he thought the best opportunity to bandwaggon in would be.

 

But that's just like, your opinion, man.

 

Also try not to kill that .99 infra at the end, it really ties the room together.

 

 

I just need to keep winning on the ground to make up for that. I still had a good chance until berbers suddenly jumped in.

 

So you treated Kashmir badly, and were in a position to continue treating them badly until I jumped in. I feel like a hero!

 

I'd talk to NATO. Berbers has been sitting on Kashmir/NG lap lately.

 

best post of the thread imho.

 

We'd been planning the attack for weeks, it was just a coincidence you accepted him and ignored the fact we were still at war, and I don't care what berbers does or doesn't do. You set yourself up and he was the first taker of the many lining up from all over the treaty web to hop on the meth train

 

wow rude.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this war continues long after I can't pay my bills. Me not fighting back won't mean they won't continue attacking, although that's when I start calling in favors for aid if they don't want to peace out; which might create new types of arguments. If I need to self ZI at some point to pay my bills because this gets drawn out long enough, I've had a lot of experience with Guerrilla Warfare myself.

 

Also I did give SirWilliam my word that if Kashmir peaces us out without any absurd terms, I'll take Neo Uruk off the Enemy of Nexus list after peace is achieved with Kashmir. So if Kashmir drops the $90m they want for stonewall and pauls release after this round of war, then peace could be possible if they don't suddenly have new terms they are pushing.

 

Your attitude is the only thing that continues anything past anything.  Just stop being crazy for about 5 minutes, step back, realize you did something wrong, and take steps to fix it.  

[The Pansy]

Berbers, you jumped on knowing you had the advantage in this battle, and that Methrages bluster is just that.
Just admit you saw an opportunity to break some boredom for yourself, and you took it, loads of people have done it before, loads of people will do it again. I know I have done it numerous times myself.

It was an opportunistic dick move.... but it's one that is rife over this game. Just enjoy being the dick for a change.

[IYIyTh]

How amoral, Berbers.

 

You know, there's a place for folks like you. ;)

[berbers]

Berbers, you jumped on knowing you had the advantage in this battle, and that Methrages bluster is just that.
Just admit you saw an opportunity to break some boredom for yourself, and you took it, loads of people have done it before, loads of people will do it again. I know I have done it numerous times myself.

It was an opportunistic dick move.... but it's one that is rife over this game. Just enjoy being the dick for a change.

 

I must have totally given the wrong impression, I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm not a dick, because I really am.  In this case though, I did expect to lose a ton of pixels and gain a ton of casualties, which is a fair trade imho.  I had no idea up until I looted 8k cash in my GA that he was just making it all up, and that's the truth. 

 

You have to remember, Methrage has been at high infra and no fighting for a year(s)?  If he had run his nation right, he shouldn't be bill locked before the end of round 1.

 

How amoral, Berbers.

 

You know, there's a place for folks like you. ;)

 

Nobody poaches like MI6 <3

[The Pansy]

Embrace your inner dick, feel the hate flow. This place needs more dicks, because without them it becomes the Rey and Rotavele show. *shudders*

Methrage constantly gets himself in these kinds of wars, for the longest of time he was doing the dance with NG, I can utterly see why he declared it, as he would have seen the further attack as a slap in the face, at least you have now given him another hate target, maybe Rey can catch a break.

[berbers]

 maybe Rey can catch a break.

 

What have I done :(

 

Not even MI6 will take me now  :frantic:

[Neo Uruk]

MI6 will try to get us both now!

[Sephiroth]

 

I must have totally given the wrong impression, I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm not a dick, because I really am.  In this case though, I did expect to lose a ton of pixels and gain a ton of casualties, which is a fair trade imho.  I had no idea up until I looted 8k cash in my GA that he was just making it all up, and that's the truth. 

 

You have to remember, Methrage has been at high infra and no fighting for a year(s)?  If he had run his nation right, he shouldn't be bill locked before the end of round 1.

 

 

Nobody poaches like MI6 <3

SirWilliam's decision was we should fight at least 1 round before any peace could be possible, also I've told Kashmir if they are reasonable about peace I will take Neo Uruk off the Enemy of Nexus list after peace with Kashmir. So you attacking will complicate any peace dealings and not make it come faster. Once I reach a certain threshold damage, continuing to fight indefinitely will be a much easier decision for me than wanting any kind of peace. If that happens war with Kashmir takes longer and Neo Uruk might never gets off the Enemy of Nexus list.

 

If you choose to attack now further despite my offer of peace without hitting you back, I won't even give you the honor of fighting you. However in the future if I ever see in a disadvantaged situation and I'm within range, I'll bandwaggon in on you at the worst time possible for you and let loose the nukes. So even if I don't hit you back now if you choose to keep at attacking me, I will hit you randomly in the future when the tables are turned if given a chance in the future.

 

Also you were the one pointing out my nation was dipping in Military NS faster, so you were eyeing my nation and seemed to bandwaggon in when you saw an opening where I would be at a disadvantage.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage