Limitless Nexus Recognition of Hostilities

[Sephiroth]

And how did you word it, exactly? I'm sure if you said "well Kashmir attacked my alliance" that would make you sound a bit better than you actually look here.

I explained it was a member of my alliance getting triple teamed with no chance of his wars getting peaced out, so I recognized a state of war and hit him due to that. He would of done the same and like me, has fought to ZI before and would do it again if need be. I'm prepared to fight as long as Kashmir wants, but I wish some of them would stop pretending I started this war and had other options. Kashmir left me no options but recognize a state of war, or seem unwilling to fight when alliance members are under attack. So either I could of been a coward or fought in a war I knew would bring me down into the lower tiers. I chose to fight regardless of the cost to my own nation, as I'd rather go down fighting; than live forever as a coward.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Master Hakai]

I explained it was a member of my alliance getting triple teamed with no chance of his wars getting peaced out, so I recognized a state of war and hit him due to that. 

Yep, figured. You're so fucking stupid it blows my mind.

[Sephiroth]

Yep, figured. You're so !@#$@#$ stupid it blows my mind.

You guys even recognized he was a member of my alliance and given an government position before you attacked. That he got a government position seemed to motivate you guys more, so you knew I was obligated to protect him as a member.

 

Although the one who has acted the most dishonorable throughout this is berbers, who was eyeing my nation for when he thought the best opportunity to bandwaggon in would be.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Neo Uruk]

I'm prepared to fight as long as Kashmir wants,

Dude, you have no money. You're not prepared for anything.

[Sephiroth]

Dude, you have no money. You're not prepared for anything.

I just need to keep winning on the ground to make up for that. I still had a good chance until berbers suddenly jumped in.

[Beauty]

I just need to keep winning on the ground to make up for that. I still had a good chance until berbers suddenly jumped in.

I'd talk to NATO. Berbers has been sitting on Kashmir/NG lap lately.

[Neo Uruk]

I just need to keep winning on the ground to make up for that. I still had a good chance until berbers suddenly jumped in.

Well that's just sad.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

You didn't think to follow up with his past alliances when you let him join you? That is literally the worst mistake a leader of an alliance can make. Anyways, it was a standing order. We were always going to attack him for stealing aid and going nuclear rogue on our nations. If you had just handed him over so we could take our pound of flesh, you'd still be sitting pretty and without this mess. You brought it all on yourself.

 

You dont see how every finger you point at Methrage here points right back at you, but the irony is killing me.

 

The same guy fooled both of you, it's just horrible, unforgiveable that Methrage got fooled into accepting him into LN, but somehow the very similar failure in your own process that lead you to recruit a guy with a long history of aid scamming and send him (over 200 million right?) deserves no opprobrium? Sure it's not *exactly* the same thing but the similarities are striking. Meth may or may not realize he's been had at this point, but you not only know he's been had, you know you've been had too.

 

I'm having a very hard time with some of Methrages actions here myself, which is why I have NOT been inserting myself into the situation more forcefully. But this is certainly not his fault alone, y'all have been far from little angels yourselves.

 

Methrage accepted Stonewall prematurely, I can accept that argument. YOU still had choices though. You had plenty of options at that point, many different ways you could have pursued Stonewall. You *chose* to attack LN instead, and foreclosed his other options. You both made errors here but he's right, you are the ones that actually made this an alliance war.  That's a fact.

 

 

Yep, figured. You're so !@#$@#$ stupid it blows my mind.

 

 

How is that stupid? Hmm?

 

It appears to be an accurate statement of the facts at the time.

[Master Hakai]

You guys even recognized he was a member of my alliance and given an government position before you attacked. That he got a government position seemed to motivate you guys more, so you knew I was obligated to protect him as a member.

 

Although the one who has acted the most dishonorable throughout this is berbers, who was eyeing my nation for when he thought the best opportunity to bandwaggon in would be.

We'd been planning the attack for weeks, it was just a coincidence you accepted him and ignored the fact we were still at war, and I don't care what berbers does or doesn't do. You set yourself up and he was the first taker of the many lining up from all over the treaty web to hop on the meth train

[Master Hakai]

The same guy fooled both of you, it's just horrible, unforgiveable that Methrage got fooled into accepting him into LN, but somehow the very similar failure in your own process that lead you to recruit a guy with a long history of aid scamming and send him (over 200 million right?) deserves no opprobrium? Sure it's not *exactly* the same thing but the similarities are striking. Meth may or may not realize he's been had at this point, but you not only know he's been had, you know you've been had too.

You've got to stop trying to compare the situations

 

1) Kashmir accepted someone who apparently commited an aid scam in the past or something we never heard about

2) Limitless Nexus accepted him while his war screen showed a whole list of recent wars against Kashmir, and we immediately contacted him letting him know we're still at war.

 

Not comparable at all

[Sephiroth]

We'd been planning the attack for weeks, it was just a coincidence you accepted him and ignored the fact we were still at war, and I don't care what berbers does or doesn't do. You set yourself up and he was the first taker of the many lining up from all over the treaty web to hop on the meth train

I was never informed of this plan, so I wasn't ignoring anything. You guys avoided telling me and decided you wanted war with my alliance, rather than negotiate with me in a way which wouldn't force me to be at war with you guys.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Neo Uruk]

I like that Methrage and Sigrun compare apples and oranges then call them both pears.

[Master Hakai]

That's right Methrage, all your poor decisions are everyone else's fault. There is nothing left to discuss here.

[Sephiroth]

That's right Methrage, all your poor decisions are everyone else's fault. There is nothing left to discuss here.

Not with you at least, but I'll see you on the way down. Or I hope you'll pay me a visit when I come within range. Either way, speaking with you is like speaking with a brick wall. Very pointless. I used to think you were a little smarter than you are, but you seem unable to grasp the most simple of concepts.

[Master Hakai]

Not with you at least, but I'll see you on the way down. Or I hope you'll pay me a visit when I come within range. Either way, speaking with you is like speaking with a brick wall. Very pointless. I used to think you were a little smarter than you are, but you seem unable to grasp the most simple of concepts.

The irony is out of control

[Sephiroth]

Just for future record, Kashmir doesn't consider it to be declaring war if you triple team one of their nations and refuse to peace out under any circumstances. As long as you don't post a DoW, if they defend against those attacks they would be the aggressors under their own logic.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[YOLO SWAG]

"Police action."

[King Conrad]

Sigrun, the difference is this: No one spoke to Kashmir about Stonewall's past. When Kashmir explained Stonewall's most recent skullduggery to Methrage, it was dismissed. The appropriate response to 'This guy just stole $200 million in aid from us and spent two months nuking our lower ranks' is to BOOT THE GUY FROM YOUR ALLIANCE. The appropriate response is not to offer us bribes to take his side when we're trying to remedy the problem. That's what Kashmir is doing. We're fixing (here meaning removing) a problem nation. We are beating him down so that he can't get up, and we're keeping him there. Knowing what he did, Methrage had NO OBLIGATION to defend Stonewall, other than the fact that he WANTED to use Stonewall to attack Rey. That is literally the ONLY reason that's been presented to us. When we said that we would continue attacking Stonewall, Methrage attacked Kashmir. Again, because he WANTED a nuclear rogue in his alliance because he WANTED someone to attack Rey. He didn't HAVE to go to war. He WANTED to.

 

It is worth noting, that War Jesus has driven Stonewall to zero infra and zero tech today. The nukes will continue to fall until we have annihilated the rest of his purchased land. If Stonewall finds himself in range of War Jesus once again, he WILL be attacked and reduced to rubble once more. That we will ensure. Should he ever cause trouble for any alliance ever again, message Jack Layton or myself, and we will pacify him.

[Sephiroth]

Sigrun, the difference is this: No one spoke to Kashmir about Stonewall's past. When Kashmir explained Stonewall's most recent skullduggery to Methrage, it was dismissed. The appropriate response to 'This guy just stole $200 million in aid from us and spent two months nuking our lower ranks' is to BOOT THE GUY FROM YOUR ALLIANCE. The appropriate response is not to offer us bribes to take his side when we're trying to remedy the problem. That's what Kashmir is doing. We're fixing (here meaning removing) a problem nation. We are beating him down so that he can't get up, and we're keeping him there. Knowing what he did, Methrage had NO OBLIGATION to defend Stonewall, other than the fact that he WANTED to use Stonewall to attack Rey. That is literally the ONLY reason that's been presented to us. When we said that we would continue attacking Stonewall, Methrage attacked Kashmir. Again, because he WANTED a nuclear rogue in his alliance because he WANTED someone to attack Rey. He didn't HAVE to go to war. He WANTED to.

 

It is worth noting, that War Jesus has driven Stonewall to zero infra and zero tech today. The nukes will continue to fall until we have annihilated the rest of his purchased land. If Stonewall finds himself in range of War Jesus once again, he WILL be attacked and reduced to rubble once more. That we will ensure. Should he ever cause trouble for any alliance ever again, message Jack Layton or myself, and we will pacify him.

You guys never explained anything, it wasn't until the night before SirWilliam declared he even told me what Stonewall had done. Master Hakai just sent me a PM giving me a heads up you guys considered him an enemy after he had been accepted, with no explanation of what he did or notifying me war was imminent.

[YOLO SWAG]

You guys never explained anything, it wasn't until the night before SirWilliam declared he even told me what Stonewall had done. Master Hakai just sent me a PM giving me a heads up you guys considered him an enemy after he had been accepted, with no explanation of what he did or notifying me war was imminent.

Lies. You spoke with me first, and I told you he stole aid and attacked my alliance. I went so far to even tell you that we were not interested in releasing him for any money but you kept asking me for numbers.

[King Conrad]

You were told LONG before SirWilliam declared on you, both on these forums and on ours. If you're going to try and BS us, at least make it believable.

[Master Hakai]

In addition to all the above, my initial message stated we would be attacking as soon as we finished regrouping. Was that not clear enough? At the time I assumed you were bright enough to figure out the implications of that statement.

 

But I'm the dumb one who won't listen....

[Sephiroth]

Lies. You spoke with me first, and I told you he stole aid and attacked my alliance. I went so far to even tell you that we were not interested in releasing him for any money but you kept asking me for numbers.

Almost forgot about that chat, but you were so vague I still didn't know what he did or why you thought he had stolen aid. Or even why you considered him a nuke rogue. What his position was your in your alliance, what he did, why he did it, how he was able to do it; you left all that out. Also I'm pretty sure you guys declared that same night, so you didn't give me any options or let me know keeping him meant war between our alliances. You guys declared on him as I was still in the process of trying to negotiate with you, yet you never gave any indication you were about to attack despite my efforts to resolve the matter in a way which wouldn't make us enemies.

 

You would think when I'm in direct communication with your several of your leaders, you guys would tell me keeping him means war between us. Instead as I was speaking with Bern and had just sent him aid, after accepting he told me it was a pointless gesture and he had just ordered the attacks on stonewall. So even though I was trying to work with you guys, you decided it would be better to let me believe negotiations might work until after you declare war.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage

[Master Hakai]

 

 

Almost forgot about that chat

Whoops

 

 

but you were so vague I still didn't know what he did or why you thought he had stolen aid. Or even why you considered him a nuke rogue.

That is very confusing. Why would someone think someone had stolen aid? There could be so many explanations. And the nuke rogue thing is even more vague. Why would someone be considered a nuke rogue? This is very complicated, and should have been further delved into.

 

 

What his position was your in your alliance, what he did, why he did it, how he was able to do it; you left all that out.

That's all very pertinent information, I understand your dilemma!

 

 

Also I'm pretty sure you guys declared that same night, so you didn't give me any options or let me know keeping him meant war between our alliances.

I understand. Accepting someone we're at war with into your alliance shouldn't have any negative repurcussions.

 

 

You guys declared on him as I was still in the process of trying to negotiate with you, yet you never gave any indication you were about to attack despite my efforts to resolve the matter in a way which wouldn't make us enemies.

All of us telling you we were still fighting him wasn't any indication we'd still be fighting him, this is accurate.

 

 

You would think when I'm in direct communication with your several of your leaders, you guys would tell me keeping him means war between us

Right, we're the ones who decided to declare war on Limitless Nexus. Mhmm.

 

 

Instead as I was speaking with Bern and had just sent him aid, after accepting he told me it was a pointless gesture and he had just ordered the attacks on stonewall. So even though I was trying to work with you guys, you decided it would be better to let me believe negotiations might work until after you declare war.

Okay you lost me here. But I think we're clear on the rest.

[Sephiroth]

You weren't at war with him until after he was a member of Limitless Nexus. I'm not aware of any public Enemy of Kashmir list which I could of known about. Rather than actually being at war with him, you had him on some PZI type list until you guys wanted to take him off. If that is criteria for giving you the right to attack an alliance, I could have a lot of nations on a Enemy list nobody knows about and then use it as an excuse to start a war with any nation I want as soon as they are accepted into an alliance, but somehow I don't think most would consider those attacks as permissible just because I say they're on a list for something done several months back.

 

When you attack a nation while they are a member of an alliance, you put that alliance in a position where they need to defend them or look bad for failing to.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Methrage