CNRP2 OOC Thread

[Beauty]

JED threatened to leave if you got to play Tywin, and then Rudy banned me. Im afraid they're not going to let you play here because of who you are ICly. I am sorry. I tried.

 

Heres the logs:

[spoiler]

 

[19:32] <+JED> $%&@ I'm seriously considering leaving cnrp2

[19:32] <~Rudy[Away]> Why?

[19:32] <+Hereno> because it sucks

[19:32] <+Hereno> and is a massive waste of your time

[19:32] <+JED> the same reasons Hereno, Uber, and others left

[19:32] <~Rudy[Away]> CN is a massive waste of everyone's time

[19:33] <~Rudy[Away]> Yet people play it :V

[19:33] <+Yerushalayim> I'm still confused as to why folks are leaving. >_> 

[19:33] <+Rotavele> You're leaving because Tywin can play? -_-

[19:33] <+Mogar> he cathe fact literally two people are killing this game

[19:33] <~Rudy[Away]> Your first part of that sentence made no sense, Mogar

[19:33] <~Rudy[Away]> He cathe fact?

[19:33] <~Rudy[Away]> What

[19:33] <+Hereno> he probably didn't backspace all the way

[19:33] <~Rudy[Away]> Also, Yeru

[19:33] <+Hereno> sentence starts with "the"

[19:34] <~Rudy[Away]> Uber left because of Mael's dragons

[19:34] <+Rotavele> Why did Hereno leave?

[19:34] <~Rudy[Away]> On a whim at first

[19:34] <~Rudy[Away]> Tidy left because of Tywin

[19:34] <~Rudy[Away]> And I think that's it

[19:34] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I'm disappointed Uber left.

[19:35] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I was hoping he'd hang around and create some grand machine to come kill me with.

[19:35] <+Rotavele> I tried to query him to stay :(

[19:35] <+Yerushalayim> Y'know how I deal with the dragons? I don't. :P They're people with a dragon cult type thing as far as my natoin is concerned.

[19:35] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I do not seek to intentionally drive anyone away. I merely want my style and my preferences to be tolerated just as I would tolerate any others.

[19:36] <+JED> the shens of certain players, along with the convinent manipulation of the rules, are beginning to ruin the game for me

[19:36] <+Rotavele> JED to be fair, CDT was planning on retaliating when you invaded the old Uberstein lands anyway. You've already doubled your nation. You dont need anymore land boy :P

[19:36] <~Rudy[Away]> That's kind of the thing

[19:36] <+JED> I'd like it if you didnt dictate to me, Rota

[19:36] <+Rotavele> They're not being manipulated. Rudolph and Lynneth ruled against me this morning

[19:36] <~Rudy[Away]> He's Muscovy

[19:36] <+JED> you dont decide how and what I rp

[19:36] <+JED> and thanks for the heads up

[19:37] <~Rudy[Away]> For $%&@'s sake, he only has HALF of Muscovy's historical territories before it actually formed Russia

[19:37] <+JED> I'll keep it in my mind if i do decide to leave

[19:37] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Don't leave Jed. It'll get sorted.

[19:37] <+Rotavele> Well I dont like land grabbers Rudy[Away] and I am handeling it ICly.

[19:37] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Just be patient. Not all things get solved in a day.

[19:37] <~Rudy[Away]> Don't call people OOC land hogs and deal with it IC

[19:37] <+Hereno> people have been being patient for a month

[19:37] <+Rotavele> Also he has double the land of the original Muscovy

[19:37] <+Rotavele> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Muscovy_1390_1525.png

[19:38] <+Hereno> it's the same run around

[19:38] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Call people land hogs IC and deal with it IC :P

[19:38] <+Rotavele> Rudy[Away] what do you mean OOC land hogs

[19:38] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I'm a land hog..

[19:38] <+Rotavele> I did deal with it ICly and thats why hes leaving

[19:38] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> You see, for example, I have Butan.

[19:38] <~Rudy[Away]> To stop accussing people without evidence

[19:38] <+Yerushalayim> I'm a land hog. :D

[19:38] <~Rudy[Away]> accusing*

[19:38] <+Rotavele> Rudy[Away] he doubled his land in the first week and was planning on taking the baltics

[19:39] <+Rotavele> By his own admission

[19:39] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> There is no evidence for someone being a land hog. It's an opinion :P

[19:39] <+Rotavele> What more evidence do you need?

[19:39] <+JED> did I actually say I was going to annex the land?

[19:39] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> There's no size where one statistically qualifies as a land hog.

[19:39] <+Rotavele> [19:39] <+JED> did I actually say I was going to annex the land? <--- Actually you did

[19:39] <~Rudy[Away]> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Moscow#mediaviewer/File:Muscovy_1390_1525.png

[19:39] <+JED> Where, exactly?'

[19:39] <+JED> show me a post

[19:39] <~Rudy[Away]> I'm looking at the biggest of Muscovy, Rota

[19:40] <+Rotavele> "And the reason I didn't post it as such in the map thread was because of the rules themselves, in which it was stated that a minimum of 7 posts had to be made on a particular territory in order to be added to the map. I'm still in the process of rping them out. Had I posted in the map thread, they would have told me to rp it some more."

[19:40] <+Rotavele> You dont add protectorates to the map

[19:40] <+Rotavele> and you dont need the 7 posts to add a protectorate.

[19:40] <+Rotavele> You're aware of that.

[19:40] <+JED> not referring to the Baltic states. I'm referring to Kaliningrad

[19:40] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I've already mentioned tibet once. I will start rping the spread of the Red on Grey revolution to Tibet and nepal soon

[19:40] <+Rotavele> Thats still grabbing more land JED, regardless.

[19:40] <+Rotavele> You have a huge amount of land, why do you want more?

[19:41] <~Rudy[Away]> Because he's Muscovy, the literal precursor to Modern Russia

[19:41] <+Rotavele> You're small in game so I dont see why

[19:41] <+Hereno> because he wants to argue about it

[19:41] <+Rotavele> Rudy[Away] well you can be a land grabber, it's not against the rules. However there are reprecussions ICly.

[19:41] <~Rudy[Away]> Rotavele: Unless you have a proper reason to complain about someone else's land expansion OOC, I'd suggest you stow it

[19:41] <+Rotavele> If you cannot deal with them, do not land grab.

[19:41] <+Rotavele> What?

[19:42] <+Rotavele> So I need an OOC reason to defend Tywin ICly?

[19:42] <+Rotavele> I am sure that's not what you're saying

[19:42] <+Rotavele> However explain it

[19:42] <+Rotavele> Because thats what i gathered from it

[19:42] <~Rudy[Away]> No

[19:42] <+Rotavele> What are you suggesting I stow

[19:43] <~Rudy[Away]> What I said is that unless you have a proper reason to !@#$%*/complain about someone expanding their land OOC'ly in HERE, then I suggest you stow it and deal with it IC'ly

[19:43] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Rota, Jed, be nice. Have your ministers yell at each other :P

[19:43] <+Rotavele> Im not going to not let a player play, and someone expand their land when they already doubled in size simply because "He's muscovy".

[19:43] <+Rotavele> I wasn't discussing it in here until he said something about leaving.

[19:43] <~Rudy[Away]> And that's the thing

[19:43] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Rota: If he has the ability to do so IC.. theny ou either have to stop him.. or he expands.

[19:43] <%JadeLithaen> squad full of 6 MEC troopers in XCOM: Enemy Within? FTW. Massive destruction.

[19:43] <~Rudy[Away]> JED had an active protectorate that Tywin took without discussing it prior with JED

[19:44] <+Rotavele> I know Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO] and that is what I am doing. I don't know why its a problem.

[19:44] <+Rotavele> Rudy[Away] he does not have a protectorate.

[19:44] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> In theory.. Jed's troops are suppressing Tywin's rebellion.

[19:44] <~Rudy[Away]> And guess what, protectorates HAVE to be discussed with their protectors before being taken

[19:44] <+Rotavele> You can't wait until someone claims the land and say you have a protectorate

[19:44] <+Rotavele> Rudy[Away] he never had an IC protectorate.

[19:44] <~Rudy[Away]> JED: Link me please

[19:44] <+Mogar> wpoint blank, you guys keep trying to troll

[19:44] <+Mogar> and then when it happens

[19:44] <+JED> Well, then Tywin should have to read the damn posts, then

[19:44] <+Rotavele> No one is trolling Mogar.

[19:44] <+Mogar> you get angry you arent allowed to troll

[19:44] * Rudy[Away] sets mode: -v Rotavele

[19:44] <~Rudy[Away]> Okay

[19:44] <~Rudy[Away]> Going to say this once

[19:45] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Jed can you link us to the protectorate and make this whole discussion moot?

[19:45] <~Rudy[Away]> JED's already posted his protectorate and troop movement within former Uberstania or whatever the hell its named as

[19:45] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I don't know where the claim is at

[19:45] <~Rudy[Away]> And he's linked the darn posts within Tywin's DoE

[19:45] <+JED> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/121856-the-moscow-times/page-2#entry3271754

[19:45] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> TY

[19:45] <~Rudy[Away]> If you follow the actual links and read you'll see that they were done BEFORE Tywin's DoE

[19:46] <+JED> ^

[19:46] <~Rudy[Away]> So no, your accusation has NO basis.

[19:46] <+JED> otherwise, we can kiss the rules goodbye

[19:46] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Err.. not seeing it?

[19:46] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Rotavele

[19:46] <+Rotavele> Now that this isnt so one sided

[19:46] <+JED> toward the bottom of the post, Mael

[19:46] <~Rudy[Away]> HAD Tywin contacted JED and Markus about the protectorate areas, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have much of a problem

[19:46] <+Rotavele> It doesnt matter if he has a protectorate or not.

[19:46] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Oh!

[19:46] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I see.

[19:46] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> He tagged the words as links

[19:46] <~Rudy[Away]> Rotavele: It does, actually

[19:47] <+Hereno> here, let me give you one insight as to the !@#$ that makes people want to leave

[19:47] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Not exactly the best way to get your items exposure.

[19:47] <+Rotavele> Protectorate can be contested.

[19:47] <+JED> then the rules dont matter, then?

[19:47] <+Hereno> you people are still arguing

[19:47] <+JED> thanks for saying that

[19:47] <+Hereno> just !@#$@#$ start giving out hour long bans

[19:47] <+Hereno> bam

[19:47] <+Hereno> you're done for an hour

[19:47] <+Hereno> and people will shut the $%&@ up

[19:47] <~Rudy[Away]> Rotavele, for the record

[19:47] <~Rudy[Away]> Here's from the Map thread

[19:47] <~Rudy[Away]> ""The second way is to find a protectorate and either request it of them private message its owner (there is a list of protectorate owners below) or find them in our coldfront channel, #cnrp2."

[19:47] <+Rotavele> Yes

[19:47] <~Rudy[Away]> That's literally from the CNRP2 map thread

[19:47] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> The point of this channel is discussion, unless there's trolling there should not be bans.

[19:47] <+Rotavele> I am aware

[19:48] <~Rudy[Away]> So kindly don't pull that !@#$%^&* that protectorates can be contested

[19:48] <+Hereno> this is not discussion, it's just arguing back and forth between a GM and a player

[19:48] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> If you're not here for discussion and discussion annoys you.. then step out

[19:48] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Arguing and discussion are matters of opinion.

[19:48] <+Rotavele> Then I will declare that I protect it too and ask Tywin to repost everything he has.

[19:48] <~Rudy[Away]> LOL

[19:48] <+JED> nope

[19:48] <~Rudy[Away]> Yeah, you're out for the hour

[19:48] <+JED> nice try Rota

[19:48] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> If the discussion annoys you, then you sholud step out. I am rather confident Rudy can protect himself if he gets exceedingly annoyed

[19:48] <+Hereno> mael you haven't been here for a month watching these dumbasses

[19:48] * Rudy[Away] sets mode: +b *!*Rotavele@

[19:48] * You were kicked by Rudy[Away] (Rudy[Away])

[19:48] * Attempting to rejoin channel #cnrp2

[19:48] * Unable to join channel (address is banned)

[/spoiler]

 

Basically you're not allowed here because someone will wine OOCly. Also land grabbing is now not a valid In Character CB because he calls himself Muscovy and Muscovy was large when it existed.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rotavele

[xoindotnler]

Can't see your post but a reply along the lines of "maybe if you didn't start !@#$ ever second you wouldn't get shunned/banned/asked to leave everywhere" is probably relevant.

[The Zigur]

Lol I just spent two hours writing an Order of Battle and modifying Ubersteins military organization, and again people have to try to shut me down the OOC way.

[Pongoz]

 

LOL

[Rudolph]

Except that the areas that you are so blatantly trying to hold onto was and still remains to be protectorate area that JED and Markus protect, former Uberstania and Poland respectively

Under the current ruleset that is BLATANTLY IN THE MAP THREAD:

(and conveniently posted here)
 

- The first is to find white space that is not labelled as a protectorate, and request a portion of land.
- The second way is to find a protectorate and either request it of them private message its owner (there is a list of protectorate owners below) or find them in our coldfront channel, #cnrp2.

The main reason is that there is NO precedent about protectorate areas being contested and there is no official rule that new players may contest areas that are protectorates. So no, you're actively breaking a rule because to my knowledge you have not requested or messaged the protectors to begin with.

[Beauty]

 

 

LOL

 

 

This dispute may be with him, but please don't use memes to make fun of JED. It's not classy. Also wine*.

 

Except that the areas that you are so blatantly trying to hold onto was and still remains to be protectorate area that JED and Markus protect, former Uberstania and Poland respectively

Under the current ruleset that is BLATANTLY IN THE MAP THREAD:

(and conveniently posted here)
 

The main reason is that there is NO precedent about protectorate areas being contested and there is no official rule that new players may contest areas that are protectorates. So no, you're actively breaking a rule because to my knowledge you have not requested or messaged the protectors to begin with.

 

Yes you may request it, but there's no rule against contesting it.  There is no official rule that protectorates can't be contested your right, so they can be contested until it is said it isn't allowed. 

 

The protectorates rule is controversial anyhow. When brought up last time it was the official opinion that protectorates weren't land grabbing because they were there to protect against who their neighbors would be. That was the only reason protectorates weren't put up for a vote on going away completely. This situation right here is why it shouldn't be allowed.

 

The whole protectorate thing is an excuse to blur IC/OOC lines in the first place. If you don't like them OOCly, you don't have to let them settle there. You're basically saying you don't want anyone to declare on that area and colonize it and you don't want someone you don't like from settling there. This is why there isn't a rule about contesting protectorates, because people use OOC hate and use it to ICly war someone they don't like.

 

 

[15:46] <~Rudy[Zzz]> I'm fine with Tywin as long as he stays out of Uberstania and Poland, imo

[15:46] <+Voodoo> Sounds like a IC issue

[15:46] <+Mogar> you attack alaska

[15:47] <@Markus_Wilding> see, I would have been fine with him being in Poland or Ubersteinia

[15:47] <@FHIC> I'm actually kinda excited for this

[15:47] <@Markus_Wilding> if he had asked me, FHIC and JED about it firs

 

That right there what markus said was a lie by the way, because literally yesterday he said this:

 

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I reserve the right to stop him from rolling in Poland and the Baltic states

[16:10] <@FHIC> Don't we all Markus?

[16:10] <@Lynneth> I don't think Tywin is gonna leave the antarctic

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I don't want crazy on my border

[16:10] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Like a 1 month long trading of hte Island with Japan in Pacific Theatre Operations.

[16:10] <@Lynneth> On that note, I believe we should set what wonders do ICly. 

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> ^ i support this movement

[16:10] <+Mogar> i made a IG list of my wonders

[16:10] <+Mogar> just not what they provide me

01[16:11] <+Rotavele> [16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I reserve the right to stop him from rolling in Poland and the Baltic states <--- On what IC grounds? Or are we pulling a CNRP1

 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rotavele

[Shave N Haircut]

 

Dumb stuff

[spoiler]This dispute may be with him, but please don't use memes to make fun of JED. It's not classy. Also wine*.

 

 

Yes you may request it, but there's no rule against contesting it.  There is no official rule that protectorates can't be contested your right, so they can be contested until it is said it isn't allowed. 

 

The protectorates rule is controversial anyhow. When brought up last time it was the official opinion that protectorates weren't land grabbing because they were there to protect against who their neighbors would be. That was the only reason protectorates weren't put up for a vote on going away completely. This situation right here is why it shouldn't be allowed.

 

The whole protectorate thing is an excuse to blur IC/OOC lines in the first place. If you don't like them OOCly, you don't have to let them settle there. You're basically saying you don't want anyone to declare on that area and colonize it and you don't want someone you don't like from settling there. This is why there isn't a rule about contesting protectorates, because people use OOC hate and use it to ICly war someone they don't like.

 

 

[15:46] <~Rudy[Zzz]> I'm fine with Tywin as long as he stays out of Uberstania and Poland, imo

[15:46] <+Voodoo> Sounds like a IC issue

[15:46] <+Mogar> you attack alaska

[15:47] <@Markus_Wilding> see, I would have been fine with him being in Poland or Ubersteinia

[15:47] <@FHIC> I'm actually kinda excited for this

[15:47] <@Markus_Wilding> if he had asked me, FHIC and JED about it firs

 

That right there what markus said was a lie by the way, because literally yesterday he said this:

 

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I reserve the right to stop him from rolling in Poland and the Baltic states

[16:10] <@FHIC> Don't we all Markus?

[16:10] <@Lynneth> I don't think Tywin is gonna leave the antarctic

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I don't want crazy on my border

[16:10] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> Like a 1 month long trading of hte Island with Japan in Pacific Theatre Operations.

[16:10] <@Lynneth> On that note, I believe we should set what wonders do ICly. 

[16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> ^ i support this movement

[16:10] <+Mogar> i made a IG list of my wonders

[16:10] <+Mogar> just not what they provide me

01[16:11] <+Rotavele> [16:10] <@Markus_Wilding> I reserve the right to stop him from rolling in Poland and the Baltic states <--- On what IC grounds? Or are we pulling a CNRP1

[/spoiler]

 

The rule specifically states that there are two ways. One of them is to politely request to be placed in a person's protectorate. Nowhere does it say that you can contest them, thus you cannot. If you want to get it changed, propose it, get support, and get a vote on it, but as it stands it's technically an illegal move.

There is, however, no rule against changing your mind. Keep the slander out of your argument in the future Rota.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Shave N Haircut

[Beauty]

The rule specifically states that there are two ways. One of them is to politely request to be placed in a person's protectorate. Nowhere does it say that you can contest them, thus you cannot. If you want to get it changed, propose it, get support, and get a vote on it, but as it stands it's technically an illegal move.

There is, however, no rule against changing your mind. Keep the slander out of your argument in the future Rota.

 

Well since we will E-lawyer this down, It says that he needs to request it or find them in the channel. Tywin had found them in the channel when he wasn't banned before and if you want, he can ask for it. However since we're getting to the niddy griddy and simplifying every word, it doesn't say the request has to be granted.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rotavele

[Shave N Haircut]

 

Well since we will E-lawyer this down, It says that he needs to request it or find them in the channel. Tywin had found them in the channel when he wasn't banned before and if you want, he can ask for it. However since we're getting to the niddy griddy and simplifying every word, it doesn't say the request has to be granted.

Rota, this isn't a pissing contest. This is the present GMs interpreting the rule to you in the way that it will be executed, just like we were voted in to do, none of your arguments have been valid because all of them fly in the face of what is established, and what all three GMs have said. Unless you get support for a change, there will not be one. If you can affect a change, be my guest, but this is how we're putting the rule in effect, as we always have.

[The Zigur]

From a military perspective I don't understand how 3 division can control tens of millions of people. That just looks like hoarding white space with understaffed forces. In RL the general rule of thumb is 10,000 soldiers per million citizens (1/100 ratio depending on conditions), so they could only have covered roughly three million out of tens of millions of citizens.

 

Furthermore, why should you expect to hold a protectorate against a player twice your size? Protectorates imply protection; that means you should have sufficient forces present to deter invasion or uprisings.

 

From a RP perspective where are the prior threads for these occupations and the posts required for them to be recognized according to the CN rules?

[The Zigur]

It looks to me like while I spent two or three hours researching and planning my Order of Battle, JED and Marcus went straight to the mods to whine. Too bad they couldn't just put that time into properly defending their claim IC.

[Shave N Haircut]

 

From a military perspective I don't understand how 3 division can control tens of millions of people. That just looks like hoarding white space with understaffed forces. In RL the general rule of thumb is 10,000 soldiers per million citizens (1/100 ratio depending on conditions), so they could only have covered roughly three million out of tens of millions of citizens.

 

Furthermore, why should you expect to hold a protectorate against a player twice your size? Protectorates imply protection; that means you should have sufficient forces present to deter invasion or uprisings.

 

From a RP perspective where are the prior threads for these occupations and the posts required for them to be recognized according to the CN rules?

 

 

It is not three divisions. There are far, far more than that. France alone has 50k troops. Protectorates have no ruling on required post count.

[The Zigur]

France Has 50k troops in Kalingrad, which I more or less conceded. I am talking about the rest of Ubersteinia.

 

One other note before I head out, both Markus and JED recognized my existence, with Markus even roleplaying a deployment:

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/121846-alvonian-news-and-events/?p=3272761

 

 

Classified - Top Secret!

 

Operation Lunette has been distributed among the Wehrmacht. Current actions taken are only mobilization and cancellation of leave for all those off-duty.

 

The situation on the ground leaves the 4. Infanterie-Division in Gdansk with minimal support, armed with small arms and organic artillery in the form of the GrW 17 mortar and PzH 2000 vehicles. Air defense is provided by a small amount of Flakpanzers and Fliegerfaust MANPADS. All elements of the Wehrmacht have been ordered to prepare for offensive actions, with staging areas set in Brno and Wroclaw. 

 

The first primary objective of Operation Lunette is to relieve the 4. Infanterie-Division.

The second primary objective of Operation Lunette is to force regime change in Poland.

 

Therefore, in order to achieve these objectives, the 2. Infanterie-Division, 1. Panzer-Division, 2. Panzer-Division and 6. Infanterie-Division have orders to drive to Gdansk to relieve and provide support for the 4. Infanterie-Division. The 1. Gepanzerte Kavallerie-Division, 4. Panzer-Division, 8. Infanterie-Division, and 6. Infanterie-Division are to drive to Warsaw and capture the false government's buildings and the airport for the Luftwaffe to transfer the false government's officials to Vienna for trials.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/122503-the-united-soviet-socialist-states-of-greater-eurasian-union-usse/?p=3272725

 

"Muscovy recognizes the Eurasian Soviet Union. However, we would like to let it be known that the inhabitants of the Baltic states, currently organized as the Protectorate of Livonia, never joined the Eurasian Soviet Union."

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Instead of roleplaying this out, they cancelled half way through upon realizing what they were up against and whined to the GMs.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Markus Wilding]

Let's get this straight.

 

I never went to the GMs for anything. I contested your claims and after I read through your DoE more carefully, I realized your government directly clashed with one of the three groups I maintain watches over. I'm not allowing that on my border.

 

Secondly, I referred to pushing Tywin out of Poland/Belarus if he continued with his SOCSOV bullhonkey. So far, he has given me perfectly valid IC reason to destroy his government.

 

Thirdly, I really do not care what you do OOC. What you do IC matters to me, and my only reasons for demanding change from you are from IC reasons and past RP. IC, Wilding doesn't like Bolsheviks, ultranationalists and SOCSOV. You already directly claimed to be the first, so I, as a character, have ordered you to either change to my liking or be destroyed.

[The Zigur]

Im not SOCSOV anymore, but thats a fair position. Lets fight it out.

[Shave N Haircut]

 

France Has 50k troops in Kalingrad, which I more or less conceded. I am talking about the rest of Ubersteinia.

The deployment was changed to Danzig after I reread where I'd placed my troops in relation to Muscovy's. Just a point of order.

[The Zigur]

Ok, Danzig is that chunk of land around Kalingrad, correct?

[Markus Wilding]

Danzig (or Gdansk) is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig

[Maelstrom Vortex]

It looks to me like while I spent two or three hours researching and planning my Order of Battle, JED and Marcus went straight to the mods to whine. Too bad they couldn't just put that time into properly defending their claim IC.

I don't like having to tell you this Tywin, because I can tell you worked hard on this.. but we are all beholden to the rules. Jed did properly declare and protect the protectorate. In my opinion, you do not have the ability to mobilize such a force so quickly. Your revolution would have disbanded upon its detection without some serious underground resistance footwork which was not forthcoming prior to this incident and since his forces were present and you didn't rp working around those forces, your revolution would have been crushed out of the cradle. Per the rules, which we all accept your revolution is crushed. Per the rules, which we all accept based on what would happen grounded in what would happen in such a situation were it to happen in the real world just as many revolutions have failed before when not properly organized and throught out.. yours has and is crushed. I will not recognize your USSE, nor, I believe.. will the gms. I encourage you to start somewhere else and do as I do.. develop the building up and creation of your forces over time.

[The Zigur]

Did you read the news report? The former Uberstein Army is the core of the revolution (its effectively a coup), just like Soviet Russia. Uberstein even PMd me his information lol. There were only three divisions holding most of Ubersteinia. In my eyes everything adds up to a good chance for the Bolsheviks, especially with friendly states in the area.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Uberstein]

In Tywin's defense, he has actually made a pretty interesting continuation off of my collapse. I like it.

 

And no, I'm not coming back.

[The Zigur]

I think this is incredibly realistic, and recalls to mind a certain Eastern European revolution in RL a few months back.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Captain Enema]

In Tywin's defense, he has actually made a pretty interesting continuation off of my collapse. I like it.

 

And no, I'm not coming back.

 

Smart move, inmates are running the asylum. 

[JEDCJT]

 

Smart move, inmates are running the asylum. 

 

We need Batman to come in and beat them up

[Voodoo Nova]

 

We need Batman to come in and beat them up

 

I'll be there shortly.