CN Revolution?

[Boston]

This is an OOC forum, bringing up Loki's AA is irrelevant and idiotic. That being said no one else shares his thoughts and we won't be "starting a revolution."

 

Someones seething in arrogance.  I wasn't aware it mattered and simply used that particular alliance as an example that he could relate to and understand, however I have since edited it and I apologize to both the alliance and the OP.  I do hope that suits you.

 

There was no ill intent in my posting but I cant expect every poster to be able to respond politely  :ehm:

 

Cheers

[Fox Fire]

So.... Youre asking if we liked Tom Riddles ideas?...

[Delta1212]

Voted yes because I think revolutions are fun and that's always something CN can use, not because I think a revolution would change anything or that there's much that needs changing (that a revolution would be capable of addressing).

Out of curiosity, what exactly is your problem with the treaty web, Loki? Most complaints about it involve the fact that it prevents anything interesting from happening because everyone is too tied together to make a move (until they're not, of course) but you're proposing a UN organization to cut down on conflict even further. That seems like it would be even worse than the treaty web in that respect, so now I'm wondering why you think it has a negative impact on the game.

[James Maximus]

Someones seething in arrogance.  I wasn't aware it mattered and simply used that particular alliance as an example that he could relate to and understand, however I have since edited it and I apologize to both the alliance and the OP.  I do hope that suits you.

 

There was no ill intent in my posting but I cant expect every poster to be able to respond politely  :ehm:

 

Cheers

Pardon? I don't believe a quoted any post you made. If you read through the thread you'll see quite a few people bringing Solis as a whole into it when it shouldn't be. My post was a general statement, if I was speaking to you directly I would have quoted you. Oh and apology accepted.

Edited October 28, 2013 by James Maximus

[Dochartaigh]

I'm still thinking about how this could be put together, but my primary objective would be to stabilize the treaty web.

 

And again, I don't care.

 

heh... you propose a revolution but don't even attempt to figure out current politics. A revolutionary who does not understand the current political realm will only fail as he will be incapable of proposing anything remotely resembling what people want. Others have pointed out that a UN type organization would never be possible and would actually only further stagnate the situation. 

 

There is no way to stabilize the treaty web unless you create only two sides like back when WUT/League existed. Few ties between those two entities. I am all for revolutions or attempts at them but they need to be done by someone(s) who have put some thought and effort into it and are willing to actually take a look at the political situation prior to spouting out garbage. 

 

As boston pointed out, I was not proposing anything just stating the fact that your little "TPTB" does not currently exist and thus the entire premise of your argument is void.

[Fox Fire]

"heh... you propose a revolution but don't even attempt to figure out current politics. A revolutionary who does not understand the current political realm will only fail as he will be incapable of proposing anything remotely resembling what people want."

 

^In my time with CN, Ive found someone seems to come along ~once a year to express this talk of a magnificent revolution. Never see one, but I sure hear alot about it...

*Shrugs*

[CubaQuerida]

revolutions are over rated anyway.

[Bob]

Not realistic at all

Edited October 28, 2013 by Penlugue Solaris

[Krashnaia]

While there is certainly a need to build back a game culture (something that was destroyed to pieces by the last Hegemony, replaced with trolling, moronic memes, and a "Tougher than Thou" childish pseudo-macho attitude), there is currently no Powers that Be to rebel against.

 

Equilibrium managed to end the previous Hegemony (the current wave of rats fleeing the ship being the best proof of that). But no new Hegemony has been put in it's place. Yet.

 

So now it's not time to cry. Now it's time to Play the Game.

[jerdge]

Contrary to what most are saying, a revolution is entirely possible. CN has never evolved much past a tribal system which, like all human-made things, is not eternal. A group or even an individual capable of putting together and commanding a great power could establish an empire and "civilize" CN. The NPO probably could have attempted that back when they had an unchallenged "super-hegemony".

The idea that such an attempt would lead to stagnation is also wrong. The struggle would be entertaining and the result could then be challenged. The fight would actually have a meaning, for once.

All of this said, it would be hard and long a feat, and I am not going to participate (lack of time). Ring me up if you need a prophet! :)

(To RV: I don't ignore you. You wound me... :( )

[Ogaden]

The treaty web doesn't actually inhibit action, if anything it systemically enables whoever happens to have political capital to burn and a enough of the world who don't particularly mind them leveraging their power.

What is a truism is that once you have used some political capital, unless you manage to get more, you will eventually run out of favors, and using power against people earns you lots of enemies. An alliance who is "in power" at a particular moment in time earns enemies much more quickly than it can accumulate political capital. DoomHouse managed to stay "in power" so long by primarily pursuing other people's grudges that happened to coincide with their interests, so they could always stay one step ahead of their enemies (namely us) by always earning just enough new political capital to keep us in our place.

Eventually they ran out of favors and leverage and just-one-more-time's and the Doom-o-sphere collapsed, just like the PB-o-sphere before it and SuperGrievances before that and the Old Hegemony before that, going back all the way to the Initiative and finally the League.

It is the cycle of CN, the only winning move is not to play.

The element lost on most people is that the thing that burns the most political capital isn't getting people to fight in your wars, but rather keeping the wars that DO happen in your interest, and cockblocking the ones that don't. You would be amazed at how many wars would happen if the "powers that be" didn't lean on people to keep inconvenient wars from breaking out. It's usually one end of the "ruling" treaty web hates the other end and is waiting for the day they screw up. Considering Int/NoR and MK/VE during Doom-o-sphere, it is a testament to the political skills of DoomHouse that the whole thing didn't completely collapse during the LSF/NoR war.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Ogaden

[Phil Coulson]

CN runs in a neverending cycle of groups gaining power, oppressing others, being toppled, then struggling to regain that power again.  Don't like the group in power?  Look away for a year or so, chances are they'll be gone.  A year and a half ago, people were fleeing to get away from MK, now MK are gone themselves.

 

Don't like where you (or your alliance) is in the world?  Either wait for it to change around you or change it yourself.  

[Fox Fire]

"or change it yourself."

 

Much easier said than done.

[Artigo]

And in a few years the remaining 9,000 nations will have departed allowing the neutrals to finally have the world all to themselves so they can do infra experiments all the time!

[gunzzz]

I love it when some hippie is telling people how messed up their morals are for playing the game the way they want to. There already are a general set of codes to follow in this game, they are the damn rules of the game. No one needs to follow your ethics that you think are so objective

[Phil Coulson]

"or change it yourself."

 

 

Much easier said than done.

 

Rulers can change alliances and alliances can change treaty partners.  It takes a while and you might have to take some heat along the way but at the end of the day life's too short to sit around complaining.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Monroe

[Delta1212]

"or change it yourself."
 
Much easier said than done.

Of course it is. Saying it requires no effort. Doing it requires quite a bit.

That's probably why talking is so much more popular.

[The Zigur]

Contrary to what most are saying, a revolution is entirely possible. CN has never evolved much past a tribal system which, like all human-made things, is not eternal. A group or even an individual capable of putting together and commanding a great power could establish an empire and "civilize" CN. The NPO probably could have attempted that back when they had an unchallenged "super-hegemony".

The idea that such an attempt would lead to stagnation is also wrong. The struggle would be entertaining and the result could then be challenged. The fight would actually have a meaning, for once.

All of this said, it would be hard and long a feat, and I am not going to participate (lack of time). Ring me up if you need a prophet! :)

(To RV: I don't ignore you. You wound me... :( )

 

This is correct, NPO came close and did indeed establish a de-facto empire, but bucked the idea of establishing an "official" empire from all the different alliances, due to the classical Francoist value of alliance sovereignty.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

[Caladin]

I love it when some hippie is telling people how messed up their morals are for playing the game the way they want to. There already are a general set of codes to follow in this game, they are the damn rules of the game. No one needs to follow your ethics that you think are so objective

 

Loki isn't a 'hippie'

 

The 'hippies', or at least us 'hippies' in the GPA, don't give a shit what other people do - unless they mess with us, in which case we care quite a lot.

[Jackie Moon]

Loki isn't a 'hippie'

 

The 'hippies', or at least us 'hippies' in the GPA, don't give a shit what other people do - unless they mess with us, in which case we care quite a lot.

 

From a somewhat objective standpoint, preaching for a "UN-like" system where everyone is all peaceful and alliances are held accountable for using their political capital to advance their interests smells hippie to me. This is not the real world. Attacking another nation is not an atrocious human rights abuse that leaves thousands of citizens of less-developed countries without basic commodities. This is a game like any other. 

 

If I were playing call of duty and someone told all the really good players that had worked to develop their weapons, attachments, and perks, and had joined a clan of like-minded players of similar ability not to play the game to the fullest of their ability, that someone would be told to pound sand.

[Letterkenny]

@Dochartaigh: Honestly, none of that really means anything to me. It has always been the same empires and their various stooges rising and falling. I'm talking radical change, not mere modifications of the current system.

 

This reads as "I don't understand CN politics and just want to motivate other people to do shit." You want a revolution, fucking start one. Plenty of others have in this game, you just didn't live through it, haven't looked at the archives, or don't know what revolution means. You simply weren't a part of former revolutions and don't like what they resulted in. Tough shit. You think NPO eased into top dog for those years? You think TOP just gradually moved up the rankings? You think Vox wasn't a revolution? What was Karma? That was all people doing shit, starting things, ending things, accomplishing things. If you don't like the fact they were successful, become successful yourself. Become better. At the risk of being completely cliche: be the change you wish to see in CN. 

 

To whatever it was before it began to decline.

 

This illustrates your ignorance again. What is declining, exactly? What makes this time period different or worse than any time period before? Sure, some people prefer the "good ol' days" of '07 when wars were Great, or \m/ was around, or perhaps Vox and the morality wars were your glory days. But the present never looks as glamorous as history until it too is written about as "long ago."

 

2. Creating convoluted treaty webs to manipulate the political system.

 

3. A lack of philosophy and ethics that drive people away from this game.

 

I do not define this as success. Somewhere along the line we lost our way, which is why I call for revolution.

 

What the actual fuck is this. Number two is the definition of politics and every single alliance participates in the treaty web one way or another. "Powers that be" aren't controlling everything hence negating the term from applying to the AAs you claim they apply to. What you're looking for is "big, efficient, well established alliances," not "powers that be."

 

Number three - every AA has a philosophy or creed they follow. Is it driving people away? Really? Because people still join every day, find a community they jive with, and stick around. Since I joined Kashmir several months back I've seen a handful of new members with no prior CN experience become solid members of the community - active on the forums, IRC, and actually don't suck in game. 

 

Personally, I enjoy the present system of things. I'm a member of the best AA there is, having the most fun I've had since I created my first nation in 08, and thoroughly enjoy spending time with our friends in Java and Sith and Doom Squad. Knock your socks off with this revolution of which you can't even define. 

 

Lastly, in all seriousness, start following the Path of Rebel Virginia. He is the way. Praise be RV.

[Delta1212]

But the present never looks as glamorous as history until it too is written about as "long ago."

First four months of 2009 were awesome even while they were happening, but in general yeah. Most periods seem more interesting in retrospect than they were to live through because you remember all of the dramatic events and forget about the days and weeks in between when nothing happened.

[AlmightyHero]

Loki I support you 100%! I truly think we need a revolution in which we don't name names, nor policies that need to be changed, while also lacking how you would fix things that are not named because you want to remain protected. I really wish more people from Bob would take the time to be so specific when they come to post in a large public forum, and also wish that they too would come on here to fish for things to be outraged about. If more people did so we could finally identify those who are of superior intelligence and thrust upon them the responsibility of leading everyone into the new age. 

[sslliicckk]

I have heard rumors about a revolution against the NPO.