Quick Note from MK

[Johnny Apocalypse]

So, because his nation isn't big it doesn't matter? The real problem was an attempt to set a horrible precedent, and the utter lack of any shed of decency on the part of MK. However the act was highly characteristic, so may be just another day in The Kingdom.

When you punch someone, it is not a phenomena when you get punched back.

You're missing the point. If they wanted to start a sanction war with GOD or RIA they would have sanctioned an obvious member of GOD or RIA (like one wearing the actual AA). Stop with the melodrama about ~horrible precedents~ it was a misplaced sanction not genocide.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Johnny Apocalypse

[infinite citadel]

By way of a clerical note, I believe yall declared on GLoF as well. It was edited into the DoW on AI for reference.

 

I knew I was missing someone :P

[Auctor]

I knew I was missing someone :P

 

 

Can't say it didn't sting a little, but I'll get over it. Keep up the good work sir!

[Rhizoctonia]

You're missing the point. If they wanted to start a sanction war with GOD or RIA they would have sanctioned an obvious member of GOD or RIA (like one wearing the actual AA). Stop with the melodrama about ~horrible precedents~ it was a misplaced sanction not genocide.

 

I find it humourous that people are calling out GOD all of a sudden, yet you go to the thread that was started about the original sanction by MK, and members of your side had no problem with the idea of using sanctions to their advantage. 

 

Even you said

It's war. deal with it.

 

Or members of TOP

I'm surprised oyb didn't do it sooner. It's a war, no weapons are off limits. Get your panties out of a bunch.    

 

You guy's condone such actions, as "war tactics," yet then Megamind and others come here stating such actions are "out of desperation" when GOD does it.  I wasn't aware EQ side is the ones desperate, when we're doing 90% of the declaring while people can't even get out of anarchy...I call that being on the bigger, winning side of the war, not the "Desperate."

 

Also, "HoTs" thread was started the 26th of Feb.....this was posted today, March 6th.  So it takes over a week and Sanctions to get out an apology and acknowledge it wasn't a rogue attack? 

 

Mainly, why don't your side quit talking out of both sides of your mouth.  HoTs thread was filled with individuals on your side trashing him, and stating, "it's part of war" get over it, yet then when EQ does it, "It's out of desperation," and have a problem with it.

 

I'm pretty sure, we are not in any "Desperation," and that will be more known on how this whole war concludes.  Your side likes to point "You're winning" because you have more "High Tier" nations then EQ (which is a low % of the alliance members as a whole), while 90% of your members in the middle to lower tiers, can't get out of anarchy

[lebubu]

All these rogues, should be a major sticking point in talks.

I think so, too. Especially if you want your alliance to ever grow past 100k NS.

[Rhizoctonia]

I think so, too. Especially if you want your alliance to ever grow past 100k NS.

 

 

Cute

[Vladimir Stukov II]

I couldn't buy nukes yesterday thanks to you, GOD! I will never forgive you. :mad:

[Johnny Apocalypse]

I find it humourous that people are calling out GOD all of a sudden, yet you go to the thread that was started about the original sanction by MK, and members of your side had no problem with the idea of using sanctions to their advantage. 

 

Even you said

 

Or members of TOP

 

You guy's condone such actions, as "war tactics," yet then Megamind and others come here stating such actions are "out of desperation" when GOD does it.  I wasn't aware EQ side is the ones desperate, when we're doing 90% of the declaring while people can't even get out of anarchy...I call that being on the bigger, winning side of the war, not the "Desperate."

 

Also, "HoTs" thread was started the 26th of Feb.....this was posted today, March 6th.  So it takes over a week and Sanctions to get out an apology and acknowledge it wasn't a rogue attack? 

 

Mainly, why don't your side quit talking out of both sides of your mouth.  HoTs thread was filled with individuals on your side trashing him, and stating, "it's part of war" get over it, yet then when EQ does it, "It's out of desperation," and have a problem with it.

 

I'm pretty sure, we are not in any "Desperation," and that will be more known on how this whole war concludes.  Your side likes to point "You're winning" because you have more "High Tier" nations then EQ (which is a low % of the alliance members as a whole), while 90% of your members in the middle to lower tiers, can't get out of anarchy

 

I'm not calling them out, I'm stating what was said in the OP and making an informed decision after reading it. I've not said anything about anyone being desperate. I've also not condemned GOD for using sanctions. 

 

Please don't group me in with my "side" and try to read what I've said objectively. I know it's hard but you can do it!

Edited March 6, 2013 by Johnny Apocalypse

[ChairmanHal]

You're missing the point. If they wanted to start a sanction war with GOD or RIA they would have sanctioned an obvious member of GOD or RIA (like one wearing the actual AA). Stop with the melodrama about ~horrible precedents~ it was a misplaced sanction not genocide.

 

Here's what I'm getting out of this...

 

1. MK appears to apologize and then...

2. Implies that it was an honest mistake, not a deliberate act against someone you consider to be a loud mouth.  Right I'm soo buying that.

3. Reports that someone decided to take offense and take action...and yes, they can sanction your members in response, particularly in light of the circumstances.

4. Whines about it not being proportionate...or something...sanctions two more people which now brings us to 3 sanctioned nations for MK and 2 for GOD.

5. Wants the sanction war ended now they got "even".  Claims not to want sanctions war after making a move that clearly could easily be construed as starting a full blown sanctions war.

6. List people that they (and all their false flag AA buddies...don't dare call them rogues...btw, hasn't Lebubu actually spent more time off MK's AA than on it?)  are at war with, which apparently included people that didn't know a DoW had ever been issued.  Nice. 

 

What should have happened:

 

1. Apologize for sanctioning HoT, lift sanction.

2. STFU

3. The rest of this gets settled behind closed IRC doors and we're done.

 

it's MK that started the melodrama by deciding to respond to retaliation with retaliation.  The best way to stop a bar fight is stop swinging, not threaten to keep swinging.

[Rhizoctonia]

I'm not calling them out, I'm stating what was said in the OP and making an informed decision after reading it. I've not said anything about anyone being desperate. I've also not complained or condemned GOD for using sanctions.

 

Please don't group me in with my "side" and try to read what I've said objectively. I know it's hard but you can do it!

 

 

Ehhh....I just used one post to speak in regards to several posts by individuals on here....and got lazy and didn't want to push the multiquote option.

[Hereno]

You know MK is falling from grace when they voluntarily issue an apology to HoT.

 

Also, for such a big alliance Icewolf is like IRON's only decent poster and I don't even think I saw him yet ITT.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

Here's what I'm getting out of this...

 

1. MK appears to apologize and then...

2. Implies that it was an honest mistake, not a deliberate act against someone you consider to be a loud mouth.  Right I'm soo buying that.

3. Reports that someone decided to take offense and take action...and yes, they can sanction your members in response, particularly in light of the circumstances.

4. Whines about it not being proportionate...or something...sanctions two more people which now brings us to 3 sanctioned nations for MK and 2 for GOD.

5. Wants the sanction war ended now they got "even".  Claims not to want sanctions war after making a move that clearly could easily be construed as starting a full blown sanctions war.

6. List people that they (and all their false flag AA buddies...don't dare call them rogues...btw, hasn't Lebubu actually spent more time off MK's AA than on it?)  are at war with, which apparently included people that didn't know a DoW had ever been issued.  Nice. 

 

What should have happened:

 

1. Apologize for sanctioning HoT, lift sanction.

2. STFU

3. The rest of this gets settled behind closed IRC doors and we're done.

 

it's MK that started the melodrama by deciding to respond to retaliation with retaliation.  The best way to stop a bar fight is stop swinging, not threaten to keep swinging.

 

Boy am I surprised that an issue between MK and GOD got slightly out of hand and couldn't be resolved with your neat little 3 point plan, you'd almost be forgiven for thinking they don't get on at all and in fact have a bitter vendetta against one another.

 

Again, why would they apologise for sanctioning HoT if it was not made obvious to them that he was actually a member of an alliance by officials from the alliance in question? This could have been all settled behind closed doors if that happened, neither alliance attempted to resolve this amicably because it's in neither of their interests to do so.

 

Also with regards to point 6; how are we to know who we're at war with, does attack on one attack on all still stand? is that a policy that your entire coalition have united on? If so why have separate DoW's been issued by members of your coalition?

 

It'd be easier to know who we're officially at war with if your coalition was capable of leaving a paper trail instead of using vague slogans.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Indian Bob]

You're cute. 

 

This situation is really not that hard to understand. We have recognized a legitimate mistake and have taken diplomatic steps to remedy the situation. The ball's in GOD's court now. We'll match a sanction war, but we'd rather it not escalate to that. We will use every tactic available to us, but we've never really regarded a sanction war as a decent way of winning a war. The final bastion of civility, etc. 

 

This war hasn't exactly been the clearest one in history. With Equilibrium alliances attacking MK members at random, we've been a bit hard pressed to keep track of who exactly is at war with us directly. This is just an attempt by GOD to shine in the spotlight again. This should have been an issue between the involved parties only, an issue that could easily be worked out and forgotten as a misunderstanding. Unfortunately, CoJ felt the need to make themselves feel relevant and asked GOD to get involved for them. CoJ and GOD are like that kid we all knew in elementary school who would make random noises in class for attention. If you don't constantly pay attention to them, they'll start hopping around like hyperactive kittens desperate for any attention, be it negative or positive. 

 

This is absolutely hilarious.  Is a member of MK really saying that they can't keep track of people declaring wars on them who are actually flying the AA's of the people in the coalition they attacked?  What happened to the "we always AA hop, you guys are incompetent if you can't track us".  FFS, you guys are apparently hard pressed to even keep track of the official alliances you're at war with. 

[Rhizoctonia]

You know MK is falling from grace when they voluntarily issue an apology to HoT.

 

Also, for such a big alliance Icewolf is like IRON's only decent poster and I don't even think I saw him yet ITT.

 

 

Not much for IRON to talk about....most of the issues haven't been apart of participation in this war

[Baldr]

To avoid another issue similar to this, here is a list of alliances that MK is currently at war with:

 

AI, CCC, GOD, GDA, TPF, NATO, TIO, R&R, NADC, CoJ, Fark, RIA, LoSS, Molon Labe, GLOF and Guru Order

 

 

I don't see NEW in that list.  Or The Dark Templar. Or Sparta.

 

lebubu attacked carcticllama of Dream Adventures (The Dark Templar) on 2/10/2013 11:17:32 AM
lebubu attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/10/2013 11:01:31 AM

WhatOnceWas attacked arxux of eigoloib (Sparta) on 2/8/2013 8:08:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/8/2013 8:02:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked +Zeke+ of Iron Heart (The Dark Templar) on 2/8/2013 8:02:20 PM
 

According to your own list of AA's you are at war with, they have both attacked alliances that you are not at war with.

 

Considering you've been using sanctions against people you claim are rogues, their actions look very rogue like, and apparently some senator treated them like rogues.

And now you've sanctioned that senator.  So you're using sanctions as offensive tactics, while at the same time, crying about it when it happens to you.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2013 by Baldr

[SpacingOutMan]

Apparently people don't remember BLEU-NADC, when sanctioning someone was all the rage to scorn.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

 

I don't see NEW in that list.  Or The Dark Templar. Or Sparta.

 

lebubu attacked carcticllama of Dream Adventures (The Dark Templar) on 2/10/2013 11:17:32 AM
lebubu attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/10/2013 11:01:31 AM

WhatOnceWas attacked arxux of eigoloib (Sparta) on 2/8/2013 8:08:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/8/2013 8:02:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked +Zeke+ of Iron Heart (The Dark Templar) on 2/8/2013 8:02:20 PM
 

According to your own list of AA's you are at war with, they have both attacked alliances that you are not at war with.

 

Considering you've been using sanctions against people you claim are rogues, their actions look very rogue like, and apparently some senator treated them like rogues.

And now you've sanctioned that senator.  So you're using sanctions as offensive tactics, while at the same time, crying about it when it happens to you.

 

 

 

Valid point about complaining about receiving sanctions when you use them yourself. Also a valid point: you're the coalition with the "attack on one attack on all" policy. You aren't allowed to complain when it is used against you if you want to point out hypocrisy in others.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Johnny Apocalypse

[infinite citadel]

 

I don't see NEW in that list.  Or The Dark Templar. Or Sparta.

 

lebubu attacked carcticllama of Dream Adventures (The Dark Templar) on 2/10/2013 11:17:32 AM
lebubu attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/10/2013 11:01:31 AM

WhatOnceWas attacked arxux of eigoloib (Sparta) on 2/8/2013 8:08:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked D Vibianto of lifelife (Nusantara Elite Warriors) on 2/8/2013 8:02:28 PM
WhatOnceWas attacked +Zeke+ of Iron Heart (The Dark Templar) on 2/8/2013 8:02:20 PM
 

According to your own list of AA's you are at war with, they have both attacked alliances that you are not at war with.

 

Considering you've been using sanctions against people you claim are rogues, their actions look very rogue like, and apparently some senator treated them like rogues.

And now you've sanctioned that senator.  So you're using sanctions as offensive tactics, while at the same time, crying about it when it happens to you.

 

 

They briefly left MK to join the alliance Doombird Doomcave, They rejoined us ~2 weeks ago. We are not at war with DT, NEW, or Sparta. 

[AirMe]

 

Tonight, the Mushroom Kingdom has declared war on the Cult of Justitia three days after attacking us--if you call listing us as an alliance they are at war with a "declaration of war." After weeks of gnashing their teeth over Equilibrium's one-for-all doctrine and wars without declarations, you'd think that MK would be posting their own declarations of war when they begin attacking new alliances, but you'd be wrong, because despite all that whining it has been the years-long policy of MK and its DH allies not to post such declarations when activating the DH treaty.  And so it came as no surprise when two MK nations attacked several Justitian nations without any declaration of war.

 

However, at this point in time, Mushroom Kingdom and its allies have wrapped themselves tight in legalistic arguments over Equilibrium's doctrines and actions (again, after years on their parts of deriding "e-lawyering").  In particular, MK has lately sanctioned HeroofTime55, a member of RIA, labeling him a rogue under the premise that even though HoT55's war against Everfree Union is in defense of an RIA ally, he is a rogue because the government of RIA has not declared war on EU.  In an attempt to wash their hands of this situation, MK has argued that GATO and/or Everfree Union requested the sanction; however, it is MK's senator who issued the sanction, and so MK has accepted as valid the reasoning regardless of its origin.  The MK Senator and the government of MK are in agreement with the legal argument for the sanction against HoT55.

 

While the Cult of Justitia has always hoped for the sanctity and impartiality of team Senates to be kept in tact in even the most vitriolic war, the actions of MK and its ~Competence~ allies have demonstrated positively that this hope for this war has been in vain.

 

And so we come to the rogues lebubu and WhatOnceWas.  Even as MK and its allies mocked HoT55 and made light of their sanctions, these two rulers attacked Cult of Justitia under the same circumstances for which they had issued sanctions: Individual nations responding without a governmental declaration in defense of an ally.

While I may disagree on many topics with the government of MK, I must put faith in their decisions as regards their policies toward their members.  Justitia's Cult respected the opinion of MK and its allies, and requested the sanction of the MK-defined rogues lebubu and WhatOnceWas.

 

MK is used to talking out of both sides of its mouth, of applying one standard to itself and another to everyone else, and getting its way.  Things are different now, but as you might imagine MK was highly upset by the sanctions which were issued in accordance with their own position. 

But Justitia is just: The sanctions--HoT55 included--have been negotiated, MK has issued a DoW as it has spent so much time whining that it should, and we will all be going about our business.

 

 

 

Is that so? http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/115591-rogue-senators-and-the-sanction-war/

 

I am sorry Schat....but you're an idiot.

[sammykhalifa]

They briefly left MK to join the alliance Doombird Doomcave, They rejoined us ~2 weeks ago. We are not at war with DT, NEW, or Sparta. 

 

 

So they're rogues then?  :huh:

[infinite citadel]

So they're rogues then?  :huh:

No. They're members of MK.

[Megamind]

Or members of TOP

You know as well as anyone else that has ever dealt with TOP that our members are free to express their opinions even if it isn't the official position of TOP. Now if we supported the use of sanctions as a legitimate tactic wouldn't you think that we would have, you know, sanctioned some of the people we are fighting?

You guy's condone such actions, as "war tactics," yet then Megamind and others come here stating such actions are "out of desperation" when GOD does it.  I wasn't aware EQ side is the ones desperate, when we're doing 90% of the declaring while people can't even get out of anarchy...I call that being on the bigger, winning side of the war, not the "Desperate."

I know, it must be hard to be declaring 90% of the wars, constantly keeping us in anarchy and still not being able to win despite being on the bigger side.

[Scorn]

 

 

To avoid another issue similar to this, here is a list of alliances that MK is currently at war with:

 

AI, CCC, GOD, GDA, TPF, NATO, TIO, R&R, NADC, CoJ, Fark, RIA, LoSS, Molon Labe, GLOF and Guru Order

 

 

 

Can't tell if you legitimately forgot about Delusions of Grandeur or qualifications to be on this list haven't been met for some reason.

[CheeKy]

 

 

To avoid another issue similar to this, here is a list of alliances that MK is currently at war with:

 

AI, CCC, GOD, GDA, TPF, NATO, TIO, R&R, NADC, CoJ, Fark, RIA, LoSS, Molon Labe, GLOF and Guru Order

 

 

 

Can't tell if you legitimately forgot about Delusions of Grandeur or qualifications to be on this list haven't been met for some reason.

Adding more shit to a pile of shit doesn't change anything. 

[Rhizoctonia]

 

 

To avoid another issue similar to this, here is a list of alliances that MK is currently at war with:

 

AI, CCC, GOD, GDA, TPF, NATO, TIO, R&R, NADC, CoJ, Fark, RIA, LoSS, Molon Labe, GLOF and Guru Order

 

 

 

Can't tell if you legitimately forgot about Delusions of Grandeur or qualifications to be on this list haven't been met for some reason.

 

 

You forgot IRON as well, http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=87642&Extended=1

 

I guess the guy was just in a hurry, and couldn't change AA's before declaring and leaving for Doomcave