Never bring an Umbrella to a gun fight

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I know I make this post every war, no matter who's fighting, so I'll make it again.

Peace mode is a valid tactic. It becomes a cowardly - but still valid - tactic when it is used to [i]entirely[/i] escape a war: see nations staying in PM for an entire war.

If Peace Mode is used to keep fresh reserves for a prolonged fight, it is definitely not only a valid but a smart tactic, no matter who uses it.

As far as counters go, taunting an alliance for not entering in a rushed fashion (less than 48 hours) is idiotic. If an alliance doesn't enter after six or seven days, then you can legitimately taunt them.

Makes sense, now?

[BloodFury]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1358725684' post='3081297']
Are you a joke or an idiot? DH-NPO war last a week or two short of 6 months. The hard truth is that it's not in your favor this time. Are you positive you can last half that time with no bail out coming?
[/quote]

My good sir, he is neither. He is a Senator of the black team.

[Baltus]

[quote name='commanderragnar' timestamp='1358722739' post='3081263']
It's always nice to see the mighty allies of Umbrella help her when she is being curbstomped.
[/quote]
Seriously? It's been a single day of war.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358713446' post='3081153']
The fact that after 67 pages, some members of DH are still complaining about the CB asking why consistency and diplomacy weren't used is hypocritical beyond any scale of measurement.
[/quote]
Because the attacking side has portrayed its self as honorable and moral. They put themselves in a position to be judged on the merits of their CB.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1358723540' post='3081272']
Feel free to continue laughing. Don't let umb's plummeting NS stop you.
[/quote]

Considering some of the tech levels of your top tier nations, you may be surprised at whose NS plummets quicker...

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1358672739' post='3080877']
I mean, worst case scenario, Umbrella gets knocked back to the stone age, the alliances who declared lose a bunch of NS, everyones happy, best case scenario you defend your ally and the rest of the world gets to nuke you and MK back to the stone age with your bank masters, its really a win win situation for everyone but doomhouse.
[/quote]
Nuked to the stone age eh? I think I can help you and your ilk out with that - in fact I can think of nothing better to spend my billions of dongs on

e:

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1358725684' post='3081297']
Are you a joke or an idiot? DH-NPO war last a week or two short of 6 months. The hard truth is that it's not in your favor this time. Are you positive you can last half that time with no bail out coming?
[/quote]
Well given that I've got a !@#$load of cash on hand, yeah, p much.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[queenhailee]

For those of you underestimating the opponent:

If you're on the same side as I am, stop it. Underestimating the opponent will only cause you more harm when things heat up further.
If you're on the opposing side, carry on.

Don't keep rushing the process, people. This is a great time for folks to learn that the foreplay can be the best part if you'll just decide to enjoy it It makes for a good life lesson as well

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1358725684' post='3081297']
Are you a joke or an idiot? DH-NPO war last a week or two short of 6 months. The hard truth is that it's not in your favor this time. Are you positive you can last half that time with no bail out coming?
[/quote]
Yeah sorry buddy this isn't DH-NPO part two. There will be little to nothing holding up peace negotiations this time most likely, as neither side has enough of an advantage to force things down the other's throats.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Sardonic

[tamerlane]

[quote name='queenhailee' timestamp='1358726415' post='3081314']
For those of you underestimating the opponent:

If you're on the same side as I am, stop it. Underestimating the opponent will only cause you more harm when things heat up further.
If you're on the opposing side, carry on.

Don't keep rushing the process, people. This is a great time for folks to learn that the foreplay can be the best part if you'll just decide to enjoy it It makes for a good life lesson as well
[/quote]

informative if not somewhat disturbing...

Edited January 21, 2013 by tamerlane

[Judge X]

[quote name='commander thrawn' timestamp='1358725774' post='3081302']


I know one thing for sure, we would outlast TPF.
[/quote]
Ha! I lasted all but the last 6 weeks off of umbrella aid. We are used to the long fight with little cash. Guess what? Two years without a beat down does a lot for the war chests. I shall mention that there is no Athens to save you this time either. We got love for CnG and understand the eg they have to stand on.

[SpiderJerusalem]

This arguing is stupid... The right to the slots of the rogue is all in the eye of the beholder. We (Ai) will claim they are ours because the rogue attacked us, and Umb will cite a tradition of theirs, and that it's not always so that the defending alliance have the right of refusal on the slots. And both parties would be right and wrong at the same time.

What matters is the subjective opinion, and we have therefore attacked you guys, because we *feel* wronged. And that's the basis of the CB. That, and the fact that we don't like you, and want to burn your nations to the ground. Big surprise there. And I would be surprised if you are all this butthurt for real, since we've been told to do something about it for a long time now.

Here we are, doing as we're told, like the dogs we are.

*wooof*

Bring it. Bring all you got. And we may just end up having the best war for some time

[Ardus]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358718524' post='3081210']
They could indeed do whatever DH did and no member of DH could open their mouth to complain about it. That said it would not change the fact that if DR/NPO did or start to do the same thing that DH did I'd be cool with that, because I wont, I was one of the few that saw from the start that Karma would change nothing, therefore the Pepsi-Coke sigs, neither I believe that if DR/NPO won this war everything will be perfect, on the contrary, they will remain pretty much the same thing and like I spend all the MK age of hegemony criticizing MK crimes, I'll do the same thing in the future NPO/Dr hegemony.

However, until now DR/NPO started a war with a solid CB and nothing will change the fact that this CB is better than anything that DH/MK/TOP ever offered, so I really can keep a straight face when I see a member of DH complaining about the legitimacy of the CB and how NPO/DR refused to use diplomacy.

[OOC]A good analogy about this situation would be Bashar Al Assad complaining to ONU about the war tactics that the rebels are using after use SCUDs on civil population, with the difference that until now DR/NPO kept the war clean and as I said offered good reasons to start it.[/OOC]
[/quote]
Repeated assertion does little to rebut the stated facts demonstrating the [i]casus belli[/i] against Umbrella to be thinner than the one-ply I pick up from the dollar store. AI did not act when others committed the same supposed wrong and Umbrella was increasing the damage against the rogue, not decreasing it. Lusitan's nukes are ghastly in their strength. It was AI's decision to not coordinate and have alterego nuke that increased the rogue's effectiveness.

In and of itself, the lack of a CB is of no concern to me. As I stated earlier, I operate strictly on the basis of strategic interest; world renowned for it, really. So do many of my colleagues in DoomHouse. Those attacking Umbrella are presently doing they same. They saw an opening with the collapse of BFF. They took it. Good on 'em for not being too hesitant to seize the chance.

But I will see to it that the reality of the matter is stated. You cry hypocrisy. I could very well do the same. DoomHouse was assailed for operating on thin to non-existent [i]casus belli[/i]; AI and NPO here do the same. Arguably worse--Umbrella's being attacked for [i]helping[/i] Anarchy Inc. The opponents of DoomHouse proclaimed the use of peace mode as a valid tactic, which DH actually accepted and recognized under circumstances where ultimate participation was understood to be the eventual outcome (rotation, temporary peace mode, etc.). Here those same individuals who defended peace mode condemn it. It is the very inconsistency of our enemies that forces the bizarre reversal here. But in the end all that matters is that the honest reason for things is either recognized by the public or admitted by AI/NPO (and the Emperor, to his credit, has admitted): this war is an act of strategic interest. Absolutely no more. Absolutely no less.

This is not some justified crusade where the blood of innocents is to be avenged. It is the great game in play and the very worst of the world have gathered, clothed in false light, bearing crosses of balsa wood, in the hope of reclaiming their long lost preeminence. I take great satisfaction in the knowledge that the very attempt to do so ensures their failure--in a tripartite world, A and B shall burn while C is granted the opportunity to sit and watch. That is, if they're smart enough to do so.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1358726635' post='3081319']
Ha! I lasted all but the last 6 weeks off of umbrella aid. We are used to the long fight with little cash. Guess what? Two years without a beat down does a lot for the war chests. I shall mention that there is no Athens to save you this time either. We got love for CnG and understand the eg they have to stand on.
[/quote]

I have been in Umbrella for 2 months so whatever bro.

And who cares how your alliance gets its warchests? That doesn't really impact anything.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1358725749' post='3081299']


[img]http://c481901.r1.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Iraqi-Information-Minister.jpeg[/img]

You understand DH has fallen from grace when it's Rey who does the PR legwork. Where are the potatoes? The Azaghuls? The leetguys? The Stormsends?
[/quote]
They don't have to come out because all of the worthy opposition, intellectually, is in our corner.

[Judge X]

[quote name='commander thrawn' timestamp='1358727082' post='3081324']


I have been in Umbrella for 2 months so whatever bro.

And who cares how your alliance gets its warchests? That doesn't really impact anything.
[/quote]
So your thumping your chest like cyber-jesus for what reason?

[Judge X]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1358726483' post='3081316']

Yeah sorry buddy this isn't DH-NPO part two. There will be little to nothing holding up peace negotiations this time most likely, as neither side has enough of an advantage to force things down the other's throats.
[/quote]
I miss you Sardonic. When I get ZI'd I'll try and drop by for a visit. Good luck bro.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1358726813' post='3081322']
Repeated assertion does little to rebut the stated facts demonstrating the [i]casus belli[/i] against Umbrella to be thinner than the one-ply I pick up from the dollar store. AI did not act when others committed the same supposed wrong and Umbrella was increasing the damage against the rogue, not decreasing it. Lusitan's nukes are ghastly in their strength. It was AI's decision to not coordinate and have alterego nuke that increased the rogue's effectiveness.

In and of itself, the lack of a CB is of no concern to me. As I stated earlier, I operate strictly on the basis of strategic interest; world renowned for it, really. So do many of my colleagues in DoomHouse. Those attacking Umbrella are presently doing they same. They saw an opening with the collapse of BFF. They took it. Good on 'em for not being too hesitant to seize the chance.

But I will see to it that the reality of the matter is stated. You cry hypocrisy. I could very well do the same. DoomHouse was assailed for operating on thin to non-existent [i]casus belli[/i]; AI and NPO here do the same. Arguably worse--Umbrella's being attacked for [i]helping[/i] Anarchy Inc. The opponents of DoomHouse proclaimed the use of peace mode as a valid tactic, which DH actually accepted and recognized under circumstances where ultimate participation was understood to be the eventual outcome (rotation, temporary peace mode, etc.). Here those same individuals who defended peace mode condemn it. It is the very inconsistency of our enemies that forces the bizarre reversal here. But in the end all that matters is that the honest reason for things is either recognized by the public or admitted by AI/NPO (and the Emperor, to his credit, has admitted): this war is an act of strategic interest. Absolutely no more. Absolutely no less.

This is not some justified crusade where the blood of innocents is to be avenged. It is the great game in play and the very worst of the world have gathered, clothed in false light, bearing crosses of balsa wood, in the hope of reclaiming their long lost preeminence. I take great satisfaction in the knowledge that the very attempt to do so ensures their failure--in a tripartite world, A and B shall burn while C is granted the opportunity to sit and watch. That is, if they're smart enough to do so.
[/quote]

you know Ardus you are a master of taking bits of truth and sprinkling it with a lot of spin and putting out a buffet of BS. THe best part of this speech is saying that DR will allow another hegemony like the past. Well i personally know for a fact AI will not return to that type of tyranny nor continue on with the LULZ community that MK and CO have created. To attempt to bring up old fears that allowed you (and rightfully so) to build a coalition to take down TC is a desperate maneuver. Many of those that were in power all those years ago are no longer in power now and many of us have evolved in to better communities. This CB is far from thin DH and the world was warned that we were unhappy with the hitting of puppets and yet instead of coming to us when puppets came out they went ahead and filled his slots. This was nothing more than F U to AI and a do something about it. We did. This has been coming for quite a while and if you werent prepared or didnt want this maybe you as an ally should have spoken to them as I am very sure that YOU knew our feelings on this. So please stop the BS.

[D34th]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1358726813' post='3081322']
Repeated assertion does little to rebut the stated facts demonstrating the [i]casus belli[/i] against Umbrella to be thinner than the one-ply I pick up from the dollar store. AI did not act when others committed the same supposed wrong and Umbrella was increasing the damage against the rogue, not decreasing it. Lusitan's nukes are ghastly in their strength. It was AI's decision to not coordinate and have alterego nuke that increased the rogue's effectiveness.[/quote]

This is a matter of opinion, you think the fact that Umbrella was causing enough damage against the rogue is sufficient to make AI happy, when it obviously isn't the case, the rogue slots belongs to the alliance who was rogued and no BIBO will change this fact, also who should had entered in contact with AI and tried to do some coordination/diplomacy was Umbrella, no AI. Of course you aren't obliged to agree with me, nonetheless it's the best CB we saw in cyberverse since a long time, nobody fabricated proofs or set up traps, AI just took advantage of Umbrella mistake and we can't blame AI for doing it.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1358726813' post='3081322']
In and of itself, the lack of a CB is of no concern to me. As I stated earlier, I operate strictly on the basis of strategic interest; world renowned for it, really. So do many of my colleagues in DoomHouse. Those attacking Umbrella are presently doing they same. They saw an opening with the collapse of BFF. They took it. Good on 'em for not being too hesitant to seize the chance.[/quote]

While the CB is of no concern to you, many DH members complained a lot, and are still complaining, about it and some even asked for "I don't like you" CB, but if that was the case - and you have to will agree with me on that - we could have been seeing a lot more of complains about the lack of CB.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1358726813' post='3081322']
But I will see to it that the reality of the matter is stated. You cry hypocrisy. I could very well do the same. DoomHouse was assailed for operating on thin to non-existent [i]casus belli[/i]; AI and NPO here do the same. Arguably worse--Umbrella's being attacked for [i]helping[/i] Anarchy Inc. The opponents of DoomHouse proclaimed the use of peace mode as a valid tactic, which DH actually accepted and recognized under circumstances where ultimate participation was understood to be the eventual outcome (rotation, temporary peace mode, etc.). Here those same individuals who defended peace mode condemn it. It is the very inconsistency of our enemies that forces the bizarre reversal here. But in the end all that matters is that the honest reason for things is either recognized by the public or admitted by AI/NPO (and the Emperor, to his credit, has admitted): this war is an act of strategic interest. Absolutely no more. Absolutely no less.[/quote]

DoomHouse is indeed known for operating on thin to non-existent casus belli, but Ai and NPO don't do the same - at least not here - who knows what the future reserves, you can't say the CB is non-existent, well you can, but you would be wrong, you can or cannot agree with it but the CB exists and is solid. Nobody here is naive to believe that the only reason NPO/DR is attacking Umbrella is because of this CB, we all know that the reason behind it is remove DH from power, after all [i]summa sedes non capit duos, [/i]the CB that Umbrella stupidly give to them was just a opportunity to make the move. You and the other DH leaders knew NPO/DR plans and also knew they would not act aggressively in fear of lose NG/CnG support, yet Umbrella in all their pride instead of ignore a dumb internal police chose to thrown a CB in NPO/DR lap, if I was one of the DH/TOP leaders I'd be pretty pissed with Umbrella leadership right now.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1358726813' post='3081322']
This is not some justified crusade where the blood of innocents is to be avenged. It is the great game in play and the very worst of the world have gathered, clothed in false light, bearing crosses of balsa wood, in the hope of reclaiming their long lost preeminence. I take great satisfaction in the knowledge that the very attempt to do so ensures their failure--in a tripartite world, A and B shall burn while C is granted the opportunity to sit and watch. That is, if they're smart enough to do so.
[/quote]

Only naive people believe this war is a good vs evil one, we all know (or should know) that this is only a fight for power and nothing will significantly change in case of NPO/DR victory. Also I'm sure that you hope that SF/XX/NpO will just sit and watch the war, since it will give you more chance to win, but unhappily for you I believe they will want a piece of DH too, to avenge all the crimes you committed against them.

Edited January 21, 2013 by D34th

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1358725853' post='3081303']
I know I make this post every war, no matter who's fighting, so I'll make it again.

Peace mode is a valid tactic. It becomes a cowardly - but still valid - tactic when it is used to [i]entirely[/i] escape a war: see nations staying in PM for an entire war.

If Peace Mode is used to keep fresh reserves for a prolonged fight, it is definitely not only a valid but a smart tactic, no matter who uses it.

As far as counters go, taunting an alliance for not entering in a rushed fashion (less than 48 hours) is idiotic. If an alliance doesn't enter after six or seven days, then you can legitimately taunt them.

Makes sense, now?
[/quote]

well said sir well said.

[Mr Magorium]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1358722449' post='3081257']
Feel free to dump any remaining warchest on me tia
[/quote]

You do know that accepting money, tech or/and soldiers from a nation durring war is an act of war? and before you try give me a hard time please know that I dont give a s..t about this whole thing

EDIT: or atleast is used to be...

Edited January 21, 2013 by Mr Magorium

[Stewie]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1358728196' post='3081335']


you know Ardus you are a master of taking bits of truth and sprinkling it with a lot of spin and putting out a buffet of BS. THe best part of this speech is saying that DR will allow another hegemony like the past. Well i personally know for a fact AI will not return to that type of tyranny nor continue on with the LULZ community that MK and CO have created. To attempt to bring up old fears that allowed you (and rightfully so) to build a coalition to take down TC is a desperate maneuver. Many of those that were in power all those years ago are no longer in power now and many of us have evolved in to better communities. This CB is far from thin DH and the world was warned that we were unhappy with the hitting of puppets and yet instead of coming to us when puppets came out they went ahead and filled his slots. This was nothing more than F U to AI and a do something about it. We did. This has been coming for quite a while and if you werent prepared or didnt want this maybe you as an ally should have spoken to them as I am very sure that YOU knew our feelings on this. So please stop the BS.
[/quote]

So when are AI coming after Non Grata then as we are the culmination of pretty much all of the different lulz alliances there have been.

\m/ 1 & 2, GOONS v1, Poison Clan, Bel Air, RAD, Freak Safari....

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1358728658' post='3081341']
So when are AI coming after Non Grata then as we are the culmination of pretty much all of the different lulz alliances there have been.

\m/ 1 & 2, GOONS v1, Poison Clan, Bel Air, RAD, Freak Safari....
[/quote]
OH lets take my words and try spinning them well done sir. I said there would be no return to the days of TC and we will not continue on in the manner that has become the norm of today. Where in my statement did I say we were comming after the Lulz alliances. Your taking a small chunk of a statement pushing it out of context and attempting to spin it far from its intended mark. You know as well stewie I loved PC and Kronos they may have pushed the limits but nothing like what weve seen over the last year. I would consider NG an aquantince that has great potential for friendship as we seem to attend the same balls these days and did even before the merge in to AI.

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1358728658' post='3081341']


So when are AI coming after Non Grata then as we are the culmination of pretty much all of the different lulz alliances there have been.

\m/ 1 & 2, GOONS v1, Poison Clan, Bel Air, RAD, Freak Safari....
[/quote]

You have the lulz in your community, yes. That is a good thing... You have not used it as an excuse to misuse power however.

Edited January 21, 2013 by SpiderJerusalem

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1358728658' post='3081341']
So when are AI coming after Non Grata then as we are the culmination of pretty much all of the different lulz alliances there have been.

\m/ 1 & 2, GOONS v1, Poison Clan, Bel Air, RAD, Freak Safari....
[/quote]

My guess is that particular point about culture clash may be the genesis of a future conflict.

[size=1]e: (disclaimer: this is just idle speculation mind you)[/size]

Edited January 21, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358728250' post='3081336']
Only naive people believe this war is a good vs evil one, we all know (or should know) that this is only a fight for power and nothing will significantly change in case of NPO/DR victory. Also I'm sure that you hope that SF/XX/NpO will just sit and watch the war, since it will give you more chance to win, but unhappily for you I believe they will want a piece of DH too, to avenge all the crimes you committed against them.
[/quote]
Boy, I sure am glad that SF/XX/NpO is comprised mostly of empty NS.
[quote name='Mr Magorium' timestamp='1358728570' post='3081340']


You do know that accepting money, tech or/and soldiers from a nation durring war is an act of war? and before you try give me a hard time please know that I dont give a s..t about this whole thing

EDIT: or atleast is used to be...
[/quote]
Well considering I am directly allied to the alliance charged with helping the rogue anyways!