A Brief Announcement from Umbrella

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333504718' post='2948076']
If your raider makes a mistake in who he targets, then you have handed a severe casus belli. What if the aggrieved alliance demanded reparations from GOONS? Would they pay? Everything I have seen in these threads says no.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure we've paid reps when our raiders have $%&@ed up in the past.

e: Sard can confirm this.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333487588' post='2947984']
There's a fine line between being hilarious and bad and being intentionally moronic. I'll admit, the idea of his story written on the mercy boards was rather amusing, and it would have been good, but it was too insulting and relied too heavily on personal attacks. We all know those are fantastic, but they should have been anti-Sardonic attacks. I can guarantee a written attack on him in the form of a mercy board post would have been amusing to most of GOONS and probably accepted.
[/quote]

I understand where you are coming from but take into account that mongols did not know GOONS at all, and by looking at their boards for a little bit, he assumed that this was the type of humor they would like, and even if he isn't good at that type of humor, he tried to do it that way.


[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333493807' post='2948005']
The NEW guys were 50k, 67k, 80k and 102k NS when they joined Kaskus.
[/quote]

Yes, but we were talking about if they were considering an unimportant "micro" or not during negotiations.. in which case the NS of added nations shouldn't be a factor.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1333518974' post='2948160']
Yes, but we were talking about if they were considering an unimportant "micro" or not during negotiations.. in which case the NS of added nations shouldn't be a factor.
[/quote]
The addition of four large nations totalling close on 300k NS during a war should probably be a factor to consider during negotiations. Why wouldn't it be?

e: just as the op is a consideration during peace negotiations, come to think of it.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333519523' post='2948163']
The addition of four large nations totalling close on 300k NS during a war should probably be a factor to consider during negotiations. Why wouldn't it be?
[/quote]

..because there was no knowledge of them joining or not at the time? I was talking about pre-war negotiations.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1333519774' post='2948164']
..because there was no knowledge of them joining or not at the time? I was talking about pre-war negotiations.
[/quote]

Pre-war negotiations consisted of our request for 18M and them (Mongols) refusing payment of any kind. The large nations only became a factor when they inserted themselves into the conflict. Much in the same way Kaskus has. Though to be fair, they had legal grounds for doing so.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Emperor Marx

[Vol Navy]

+1 to the revelation that GOONS couldn't take an insulting mercy board submission and got so butthurt that someone made fun of them on a joke board that they went to war for it.

Also hilarious to see them calling out Valhalla, who would shred GOONS few upper tier nations and GOONS would once again have to hold on and hope big daddy came in and saved them. Which ironically would be even worse for GOONS if those Val nations were actually knocked into their range.

[Monster]

That's kind of the point, Vol Navy. It's a storyline that hasn't really been played up in terms of its utmost potential just yet.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333503931' post='2948074']
Ha, that's hilarious coming from you. How much have we been paid as a result of your actions? I know it's at least a couple hundred mil or equivalent thereof.
[/quote]
I never agreed to pay GOONS any reps. Once when I was ZI I agreed to do some single slot tech deals with GOONS, as you guys paid for my rebuilding and also offered 2 aid slots of rebuild aid extra as part of the deal.

[potato]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333528508' post='2948181']
I never agreed to pay GOONS any reps. Once when I was ZI I agreed to do some single slot tech deals with GOONS, as you guys paid for my rebuilding and also offered 2 aid slots of rebuild aid extra as part of the deal.
[/quote]

Tsk tsk tsk. That wasn't the question, Methypantsy.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1333537445' post='2948201']
Tsk tsk tsk. That wasn't the question, Methypantsy.
[/quote]
What other people who aren't in my alliance do is obviously out of my control.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Methrage

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333518621' post='2948157']
I'm pretty sure we've paid reps when our raiders have $%&@ed up in the past.

e: Sard can confirm this.
[/quote]
Indeed. And despite all the moaning from the vocal minority of alliances in this thread, in my experience the vast majority of alliances are at least willing to agree to a return of capital in situations where the aid was sent without prejudice. I sincerely doubt half the people commenting on standards have actually handled incidents of the nature.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Sardonic

[flak attack]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1333510506' post='2948113']
Thats a good question, I will follow it up with why you want a piece of Valhalla so bad that you would love it if we joined in.
[/quote]
To be fair, some of us just want a good fight. We aren't particular about who it's with.

[Monster]

The issue is, it wouldn't be a good fight if Valhalla entered the fray here, because all GOONS would have to do is call in Umbrella and NG and then Valhalla's largest treaty partner is functionally frozen out and the rest of their allies could be handled by others.

Not that there isn't evidence of GOONS wanting to roll Valhalla independently of Aeros' posting.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Roquentin

[dunhill2071]

you make it seem as if we have Umbrella and NG on speed dial... we do...

[Monster]

I mean, of course, I'd know.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333528508' post='2948181']
I never agreed to pay GOONS any reps. Once when I was ZI I agreed to do some single slot tech deals with GOONS, as you guys paid for my rebuilding and also offered 2 aid slots of rebuild aid extra as part of the deal.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure you've had others fork out for you in the past. TOP paid out $90 mil on your behalf, if I recall correctly.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1333522216' post='2948173']
+1 to the revelation that GOONS couldn't take an insulting mercy board submission and got so butthurt that someone made fun of them on a joke board that they went to war for it.
[/quote]
Wait, so you're telling me that GOONS made a mercy board demand and escalated the conflict when the submission was not to their liking? [i]I'm so surprised.[/i]

Whether you like the Mercy Board policy or not, I don't think anyone can stand up and say that it's inconsistent. There's nothing wrong here.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333579571' post='2948392']
I'm pretty sure you've had others fork out for you in the past. TOP paid out $90 mil on your behalf, if I recall correctly.
[/quote]
They negotiated that without any input from me and it seemed like it would be rude to make them back track on what they agreed to after the fact. Although I wasn't saying Europa was weak willed because they would pay reps eventually, but that caving into whatever demands are asked of them to avert war is something they will always do. If every alliance was like Europa in that regard we would never have alliance wars in CN.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333580922' post='2948401']
Although I wasn't saying Europa was weak willed because they would pay reps eventually, but that caving into whatever demands are asked of them to avert war is something they will always do.
[/quote]
Yes that sounds like Europa. Always trying to do the right thing, careful not to piss anyone off, all at the cost of their own membership.

[Stewie]

If everyone doesn't settle down I'll press the button...

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1333582096' post='2948408']
If everyone doesn't settle down I'll press the button...
[/quote]

Yessss

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333580922' post='2948401']
They negotiated that without any input from me and it seemed like it would be rude to make them back track on what they agreed to after the fact. Although I wasn't saying Europa was weak willed because they would pay reps eventually, but that caving into whatever demands are asked of them to avert war is something they will always do. If every alliance was like Europa in that regard we would never have alliance wars in CN.
[/quote]

If a member of ours aided a nation being raided by any alliance, no matter the size, we'd realize the mistake and pay up within reason. 18 mil is clearly within reason. I don't see why you're still arguing this, other than for your psychotic hate of GOONS.

[pd73bassman]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1333582096' post='2948408']
If everyone doesn't settle down I'll press the button...
[/quote]

Please do Stewie

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333586895' post='2948440']
If a member of ours aided a nation being raided by any alliance, no matter the size, we'd realize the mistake and pay up within reason. 18 mil is clearly within reason. I don't see why you're still arguing this, other than for your psychotic hate of GOONS.
[/quote]
Six times the amount given in aid (or four times the amount if the was $4.5m, I don't remember exactly) isn't clearly within reason, most alliances don't ask for more than double the amount. A lot of alliances would be happy with just getting an equal amount.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333587127' post='2948443']
Six times the amount given in aid (or four times the amount if the was $4.5m, I don't remember exactly) isn't clearly within reason, most alliances don't ask for more than double the amount. A lot of alliances would be happy with just getting an equal amount.
[/quote]

But you aren't reimbursing for aid given. You're replacing the losses that aid caused (through continued military buildup and whatnot), and further admitting fault, that your alliance was wrong. If you don't think you were wrong, you go to war over it, which Mongols chose to do. They asked their allies in Kaskus to come in, which is up to them, and that's cool that Kaskus honored the treaty, just the same way that it's cool Umbrella is helping GOONS out with some higher-ranger targets. It's really not a subject of debate here. The majority of complaints I'm seeing are coming from the peanut gallery. It appears to me that Kaskus and Mongols are enjoying the war. Let them enjoy it.