a Kaskus Declaration

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1333886258' post='2949935']
Last I heard they were 500 million combined *shrugs*. So obviously my previous point still stands on GOONS having difficulty enforcing any reps over what kaskus/mongols are willing to pay, otherwise this conflict would be over no?
[/quote]
OMG YOU CANT FORCE AN ALLIANCE TO ACCEPT TERMS.
I feel dirty making that arguement, but you always try anything once i guess.

[Aeros]

Why don't GOONS just become Mongols protector for a couple months? Clearly defined termination date and in that period Mongols is an exclusive tech seller to GOONS (Fair trades, 3/100's). Then offer Kaskus the original 18 Million reps that Mongols refused to pay. I would be willing to bet that would end the war in a win win for everybody. Unless of course all sides are hell bent on fighting this to its bloody conclusion, which I honestly think would be a waste.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Aeros

[KenoCore]

I say let them fight as long as both sides are having fun who are we to say it's a pointless war?

[Swatch0]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333859372' post='2949814']

It's not a matter of how many micros there are, it's a matter or ranges, warchests, tech, and wonders. You can choose to play ignorant about how these systems work, but you look more foolish for it than I look for calling in assistance where required.
[/quote]

No that is not possible, Kaskus/Mongols are fighting GOONs and you also required assistance from Umbrella and FoK. Our forces combined are just under 1m perhaps? You guys look pretty foolish for getting help from 2 other alliances. You also said there are many more to jump in against Kaskus if I am correct?

[WorldConqueror]

where is VE, guardian of the OWF and arbiter of good posting, in its hour of greatest need?

[denkimon]

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1333866687' post='2949882']
Agreed. Unfortunately, you're in a situation you can't win.
You give us peace, you're weak.
You destroy us, it's expected, you took too long and had too much help in doing it.
[/quote]

What's really sad is that this is why you're in the situation you're in.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1333887564' post='2949944']
OMG YOU CANT FORCE AN ALLIANCE TO ACCEPT TERMS.
I feel dirty making that arguement, but you always try anything once i guess.[/quote]

You can if they're reasonable to the other side and/or you have the military might to force it. But at the moment they seem to be doing exactly what your avatar is doing...laughing.

[Swatch0]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333895358' post='2949973']
What's really sad is that this is why you're in the situation you're in.
[/quote]

You sure about that? lol

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333848992' post='2949766']
It's absolutely true, I'm in no shape to fight any nations in Kaskus right now. I also don't have any more reason to fight them than you do. Why are you continuing to post inflammatory statements? What have I done in this thread to deserve this treatment from you? You must enjoy arguing like a child in public.
[/quote]
How come you're not in shape? You didn't fight as much as I did last war.. Maybe some fighting experience might be good for you. Or for Europa as a whole..
Your reason to help GOONS might be that you've always been a Sardonic fan, I don't even know the guy.
And you know very well why I don't like you, that has nothing to do with this thread.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333895358' post='2949973']
What's really sad is that this is why you're in the situation you're in.
[/quote]

Your alliance, Umbrella and FoK, all for 2 Micros.

[denkimon]

[quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1333897723' post='2949985']
You sure about that? lol
[/quote]

Yes.

You are buying into this idea that there is an army of nations waiting to rise up and end the scourge of Bob that is GOONS. There is not. The reality is we recognize that no matter our actions, there are those who will take issue. The reality is that after counting those who are our friends, and those who don't care, there are very few of you.

Say we give peace, say "good fight, let's shake", and we are on our way. We will be ridiculed from all sides, by those who have nothing in this fight except their bloated OWF post counts and hatred for GOONS. They care nothing of Mongols nor Kaskus nor you.

Rather we continue to fight. Our enemies make more threads than I can count to glorify themselves. A few nations like you join the ranks to fight and they call it a weakness of ours. A few nations join our ranks to fight (what all of 3 Umbrella wars?), and it is a weakness of ours. Once upon a time we fought 12v1 and won and it was a weakness of ours.

Personally, I admire both mongols and kaskus. They are very tenacious, and my 1-on-1 interactions with them have been great. But they are being utterly defeated and we have been quite magnanimous in our execution of this war against them thus far.

In the end though that does not matter. To make peace, from our perspective, there is no motivation to do so. In large part that is because whatever we do is wrong. That those not even fighting create this situation for you and for us, those who you think care about you...that is what's really sad.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333901052' post='2950000']
Yes.

You are buying into this idea that there is an army of nations waiting to rise up and end the scourge of Bob that is GOONS. There is not. The reality is we recognize that no matter our actions, there are those who will take issue. The reality is that after counting those who are our friends, and those who don't care, there are very few of you.

Say we give peace, say "good fight, let's shake", and we are on our way. We will be ridiculed from all sides, by those who have nothing in this fight except their bloated OWF post counts and hatred for GOONS. They care nothing of Mongols nor Kaskus nor you.

Rather we continue to fight. Our enemies make more threads than I can count to glorify themselves. A few nations like you join the ranks to fight and they call it a weakness of ours. A few nations join our ranks to fight (what all of 3 Umbrella wars?), and it is a weakness of ours. Once upon a time we fought 12v1 and won and it was a weakness of ours.

Personally, I admire both mongols and kaskus. They are very tenacious, and my 1-on-1 interactions with them have been great. But they are being utterly defeated and we have been quite magnanimous in our execution of this war against them thus far.

In the end though that does not matter. To make peace, from our perspective, there is no motivation to do so. In large part that is because whatever we do is wrong. That those not even fighting create this situation for you and for us, those who you think care about you...that is what's really sad.
[/quote]

According to this, as you did just here you had outside help.

2 May 2011 NPO, Legion, Invicta, Sanitarium, CoJ, ML, TSI, TPF, 64Digits, SNAFU, KN, and NADC surrender to Umbrella, MK, GOONS, INT, ODN, Athens, =LOST=, TGR, FOK, FAN, TOP, Alchemy, NoR, and VE.

[Balder]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333901052' post='2950000']
You are buying into this idea that there is an army of nations waiting to rise up and end the scourge of Bob that is GOONS. There is not. The reality is we recognize that no matter our actions, there are those who will take issue. The reality is that after counting those who are our friends, and those who don't care, there are very few of you.
[/quote]

I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of people you've pissed off.

[denkimon]

[quote name='Balder' timestamp='1333902228' post='2950012']
I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of people you've pissed off.
[/quote]

Man we're that awful huh?

Well Kaskus is hiring.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Balder' timestamp='1333902228' post='2950012']
I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of people you've pissed off.
[/quote]
Oh we know exactly who we've pissed off, your boss has only broadcasted it a thousand times how strongly he feels about that one time we mistakenly attacked his sphere. Which in fairness, is a very valid thing to be angry about. It's not like we don't feel bad about it, and I consider it a personal failing on my part.

However with regards to this conflict I can't really see it cheesing off anyone important one way or another.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Sardonic

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333901052' post='2950000']
Yes.

You are buying into this idea that there is an army of nations waiting to rise up and end the scourge of Bob that is GOONS. There is not. The reality is we recognize that no matter our actions, there are those who will take issue. The reality is that after counting those who are our friends, and those who don't care, there are very few of you.

Say we give peace, say "good fight, let's shake", and we are on our way. We will be ridiculed from all sides, by those who have nothing in this fight except their bloated OWF post counts and hatred for GOONS. They care nothing of Mongols nor Kaskus nor you.

Rather we continue to fight. Our enemies make more threads than I can count to glorify themselves. A few nations like you join the ranks to fight and they call it a weakness of ours. A few nations join our ranks to fight (what all of 3 Umbrella wars?), and it is a weakness of ours. Once upon a time we fought 12v1 and won and it was a weakness of ours.

Personally, I admire both mongols and kaskus. They are very tenacious, and my 1-on-1 interactions with them have been great. But they are being utterly defeated and we have been quite magnanimous in our execution of this war against them thus far.

In the end though that does not matter. To make peace, from our perspective, there is no motivation to do so. In large part that is because whatever we do is wrong. That those not even fighting create this situation for you and for us, those who you think care about you...that is what's really sad.
[/quote]

The argument you are making here is actually not one in your favor.

It's none of Kaskus' or Mongols' concern (and truth be told, it shouldn't be any of yours as well,) how your self-esteem feels or whether your allies harass you after dragging out a conflict that you could have easily chosen to solve diplomatically if you had wanted to.

Edited April 8, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1333898988' post='2949990']
How come you're not in shape? You didn't fight as much as I did last war.. Maybe some fighting experience might be good for you. Or for Europa as a whole..
Your reason to help GOONS might be that you've always been a Sardonic fan, I don't even know the guy.
And you know very well why I don't like you, that has nothing to do with this thread.
[/quote]

I fought 29 different nations in the last war for the entirety of the conflict, many of them WRC equipped when I was not. Please don't tell me I didn't fight too much in the last war. Anyway, please stop getting things off topic with your idiotic babbling about other topics. Your insanity is showing.

[berbers]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333865603' post='2949877']


Of course no alliance can enforce their actions unilaterally, the world is far too big for that, but either way, there are far worse reputations to have than that.
[/quote]

I actually think Umbrella could enfore their actions unilaterally, unless they were so egregious to warrant EVERYBODY jumping them, including close allies.

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333888791' post='2949952']
Unless of course all sides are hell bent on fighting this to its bloody conclusion, which I honestly think would be a waste.
[/quote]

You clearly haven't worked much with Razor. "Burn everything" is his default impulse more often than one would readily assume is viable.

[Monster]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1333912994' post='2950056']
I actually think Umbrella could enfore their actions unilaterally, unless they were so egregious to warrant EVERYBODY jumping them, including close allies.
[/quote]

No, this isn't true.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333903133' post='2950018']
Oh we know exactly who we've pissed off, your boss has only broadcasted it a thousand times how strongly he feels about that one time we mistakenly attacked his sphere. Which in fairness, is a very valid thing to be angry about. It's not like we don't feel bad about it, and I consider it a personal failing on my part.

However with regards to this conflict I can't really see it cheesing off anyone important one way or another.
[/quote]

Not only that.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333910407' post='2950045']
I fought 29 different nations in the last war for the entirety of the conflict, many of them WRC equipped when I was not. Please don't tell me I didn't fight too much in the last war. Anyway, please stop getting things off topic with your idiotic babbling about other topics. Your insanity is showing.
[/quote]
Haha, going to call me insane now? I'm just asking when you will help your good friend Sardonic. But apparently he can't count on that. That's fine by me.
And please don't try to moderate this thread, let's just leave that to the mods.

Edit: I did the numbers and 29 different nations? You sure? Anyway, that IS off-topic.

And for clarification, I hope this war will end soon. I hope that an agreeable amount of reps for both parties will come out of the peace talks soon. These are just two very stubborn alliances. On one side you have MONGOLS/Kaskus who know for sure they'll lose, on the other side is GOONS, who maybe should have thought warring Kaskus over some more before it begun, especially because it was obvious GOONS wouldn't be able to fight a large portion of the war themselves.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Spaarlaamp

[ControlVolume]

I miss when Roq was a prolific poster, at least he was charmingly wacky with all his conspiracy theories. The rest of you are just putting out low effort "lol gonos dumb and bad" crap.

So here's my standard, easy response to just about everything said by the usual suspects:

"No you're wrong because [that's not how it works/we are enforcing policy/you're an idiot], and also [we don't care/this doesn't hurt our reputation/you're an idiot]."

[Stonewall Jaxon]

I see in this conflict two alliances exercising their sovereign right not to accept unfair reparations from a larger party, choosing instead the honorable route of self-defense. Continue the fight, good men, and do whatever it takes to make your aggressors regret the entire affair.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1333896293' post='2949979']
You can if they're reasonable to the other side [/quote]
Is it really 'force' if there is no resistance?
[quote] and/or you have the military might to force it.[/quote]
Oh lawdy, you'll be telling me you can force alliances to disband next.

[Monster]

[quote name='ControlVolume' timestamp='1333924948' post='2950115']
I miss when Roq was a prolific poster, at least he was charmingly wacky with all his conspiracy theories. The rest of you are just putting out low effort "lol gonos dumb and bad" crap.

So here's my standard, easy response to just about everything said by the usual suspects:

"No you're wrong because [that's not how it works/we are enforcing policy/you're an idiot], and also [we don't care/this doesn't hurt our reputation/you're an idiot]."
[/quote]

What conspiracy theories? I don't really have anything to gain by advancing conspiracy theories. Outing conspiracies, on the other hand, is another matter since there is something always going on around here.

Basically, in this war, Kaskus and Mongols have been able to inflict a good amount of damage and they don't really care about the costs of continuing to fight the war.

GOONS aren't exactly the most well-liked alliance by any metric and plenty of people just don't voice their contempt. A lot of people have been desensitized over the years over the excessive moralizing, but desensitization doesn't mean the underlying sentiments have been wiped out entirely.

Like Phineas said, the issue isn't that there isn't opposition to this behavior, but rather the fact that it is fragmented. I mean, it does look like GOONS are militarily incompetent in this and do appear to be bullies in general.

I mean, I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to underwrite your checks anymore, since that was always a hassle.

To be fair, I never expected to be on the opposing side, but pride, to some extent, demands it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Roquentin